March 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Preference refactoring again

by Geert

Hi Alain, this sounds very interesting. I have never been a big fan of the current "Preference Browser". I am now trying to grasp (still learning here) how this new "Pharo Preference Mechanism" works. It would be great if the mechanism could be explained in detail in something like the new Pharo By Example manual :) Alain Plantec wrote: > > I've joined 4 packages : > - PrefCore contains PreferenceValue which is now the only mandatory class. > > 2 packages for testing: > - PrefProvider contains PrefProvider class which declares some preferences > - PrefUser contains PrefChangeListener (try PrefChangeListener test). > > 1 package for UI: > - PrefTool contains PreferenceCollector and PreferenceDefinition. They > are optional. > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Preference-refactoring-again-tp2403814p2407403.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 2, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] A point a.k.a excuse to you

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, If you need a break from the noise, I would probably encourage you to "take a vacation" from Squeak rather than to "quit." I still wonder whether I have found everything that was said, which I mention only to excuse myself if I'm missing something important. My sense is that Matthew is doing the right thing, with the best of intentions, but might be trying it too soon. Either way, I think the major flaw in Squeak's evolution has been a desire to control others: "you can't do that because I think it's ugly." Pharo, in large part thanks to the efforts of Pinesoft, is allowing meaningful themes/policies to be applied to the GUI. Other problems in Squeak (underscores, FFI) can be traced back to obstruction. Pharo is establishing a spirit of finding the common problem and solving it such that we can all have what we want. Should Smalltalk contain a GUI? I think the answer is an emphatic yes. That GUI should be willing to go away in application (I really like Dolphin's session managers in this context), but it should be there, and should serve its master, which means it must be flexible. We are well on the way to that goal. Since I brought them up, hijacking underscores was in fact a way to get single-key assignment; an editor option would have provided the functionality while avoiding the whole mess. I recently learned (here) that FFI can be easily and reliably controlled via command line options, which would be a better solution than leaving it out and hoping the VM does not see a plugin. There are no doubt more examples, and the list will grow. As Gandhi put it, "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Some of those pressuring you have probably just moved on from ridicule. Making Pharo the best it can be will be a win for everyone, even if some do not see it that way at the time. Thanks for doing this! Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 4:29 PM To: Pharo Development Subject: [Pharo-project] A point a.k.a excuse to you Hi guys I probably should not have forwarded to you the email I replied to matthew but I was thinking that other people can know that I was personally touched by the situation in Squeak. I'm sorry about. We got a lot of bird names and others. Recently somebody was implying that marcus was bashing squeak because he sent an email on the pharo mailing-list stating that the situation for keyboard was worse in squeak. I'm fed up. I'm interested in pharo because I want to create free and good energy. We did a lot in the past and I want to continue. Now I unregistered from the squeak mailing-list and I will not justify anymore why I quit. Now I want pharo to be cool. Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 2, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] SortedCollection>>median

by Rob Rothwell

Well, I work in a Six Sigma department so...! Anyway, I agree that your proposal could be interesting...what do you think of the current implementations in Pharo? #median, for example, doesn't seem to be used anywhere except as an "approved" method name in MethodFinder>>initialize... Take care, Rob 2009/3/1 Michael van der Gulik <mikevdg(a)gmail.com> > > > On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Rob Rothwell <r.j.rothwell(a)gmail.com>wrote: > >> I notice that the current median is: >> >> median >> "Return the middle element, or as close as we can get." >> >> ^ self at: self size + 1 // 2 >> >> Any reason not to make that accurate and return the average of the middle >> two values for collections containing an even number of items? >> >> Or...better yet...should statistics functions be removed and placed into >> another package with other useful items like mode, range, standardDeviation, >> etc...? >> > > > Hmm... > > | Î¼ Ï | > s := StatisticalAnalysis on: myCollection. > Î¼ := s mean. > Ï := s standardDeviation. > range := Î¼ Â± Ï. > > This might be interesting. > > Gulik > > -- > http://gulik.pbwiki.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 2, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] SortedCollection>>median

by Michael van der Gulik

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Rob Rothwell <r.j.rothwell(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I notice that the current median is: > > median > "Return the middle element, or as close as we can get." > > ^ self at: self size + 1 // 2 > > Any reason not to make that accurate and return the average of the middle > two values for collections containing an even number of items? > > Or...better yet...should statistics functions be removed and placed into > another package with other useful items like mode, range, standardDeviation, > etc...? > Hmm... | Î¼ Ï | s := StatisticalAnalysis on: myCollection. Î¼ := s mean. Ï := s standardDeviation. range := Î¼ Â± Ï. This might be interesting. Gulik -- http://gulik.pbwiki.com/

March 2, 2009

[Pharo-project] SortedCollection>>median

by Rob Rothwell

I notice that the current median is: median "Return the middle element, or as close as we can get." ^ self at: self size + 1 // 2 Any reason not to make that accurate and return the average of the middle two values for collections containing an even number of items? Or...better yet...should statistics functions be removed and placed into another package with other useful items like mode, range, standardDeviation, etc...? Just wondering! Rob

March 2, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] A point a.k.a excuse to you

by Igor Stasenko

2009/3/1 StÃ©phane Ducasse <Stephane.Ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > Hi guys > > I probably should not have forwarded to you the email I replied to > matthew > but I was thinking that other people can know that I was personally > touched > by the situation in Squeak. > I'm sorry about. > > We got a lot of bird names and others. Recently somebody was implying > that > marcus was bashing squeak because he sent an email on the pharo > mailing-list stating that the situation > for keyboard was worse in squeak. > I'm fed up. I'm interested in pharo because I want to create free and > good energy. > We did a lot in the past and I want to continue. Now I unregistered > from the squeak mailing-list > and I will not justify anymore why I quit. Now I want pharo to be cool. > Stephane, i don't know who were tempting your patience, but this is not really matters. I don't think that such little noise should be a reason for quitting from the list. Smalltalkers are few, and most of them are kind people. I think you are interesting in things which happening around. And you willingly losing a source of information just because someone put blames on marcus. Come on.. just ignore it. I was a witness of quitting a Tim Rowledge from squeak community and from squeak board.. We were discussed one little thing, arguing with each other.. and then boom.. he says that he fed up and quits. And since then i feel a responsibility for starting a discussion which was led to such outcome. I think that decision whether quit or not and why, should be based on more pragmatic matters and should be well weightened, rather than based on a mere random insult :) > Stef > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

March 1, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] A point a.k.a excuse to you

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Mar 1, 2009, at 11:32 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > I have the blame of it. I am who send emails to both list. So...this > is my fault. No don't be sorry. The situation is stupid. > Sorry about it. The main problem I have is that when I have > questions, suggestions, ideas or whatever, I really don't know where > to post it: if in squeak-dev or pharo. I really don't know If what I > want to say depends on the VM, or the image or to packages that are > shared between both of them. In addition, I think there are > important people that are only in one of the list. So, perhaps I > miss an answer If I only send emails in one list. And probably, the > same discussion could be useful for both lists. Continue like you did it. We will pay attention. > > What you think I should do ? which would be the better way so that > not to cause the problem mentioned above? > > I am following Pharo very near because this really interest me. I > really want to LIVE AND EAT using an open source smalltalk. I don't > want smalltalk to play. I want to WORK with it. So, I think Pharo is > the better approach for my intention. > > But, 90% the time I spend in Squeak is for SqueakDBX. And SqueakDBX > doesn't work well in pharo. Excellent you will be able to say that ESUG pay you to produce code for Squeak :) > I have random segmentation faults trough FFI which I don't have in > Squeak. I didn't want to spend many time trying to see what the > problem is till 1.0 is releases. At that moment, I will look for the > problem. When this is fixed, I will then really start using pharo > 100%. Sure. Can you report your problem on FFI :) and add a bug report on pharo Stef > > > Cheers, > > Mariano > > > On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Sebastian Sastre > <ssastre(a)seaswork.com> wrote: > Hi Stephane, I would not take it that seriously. Just focus that > good energy you > have and use it in getting things done in pharo and adding real > value to it. > Much it will receiver in return I'm sure of that. > best, > sebastian > > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] En > > nombre de Stephane Ducasse > > Enviado el: Sunday, March 01, 2009 18:29 > > Para: Pharo Development > > Asunto: [Pharo-project] A point a.k.a excuse to you > > > > Hi guys > > > > I probably should not have forwarded to you the email I replied to > > matthew > > but I was thinking that other people can know that I was personally > > touched > > by the situation in Squeak. > > I'm sorry about. > > > > We got a lot of bird names and others. Recently somebody was > > implying > > that > > marcus was bashing squeak because he sent an email on the pharo > > mailing-list stating that the situation > > for keyboard was worse in squeak. > > I'm fed up. I'm interested in pharo because I want to create > > free and > > good energy. > > We did a lot in the past and I want to continue. Now I unregistered > > from the squeak mailing-list > > and I will not justify anymore why I quit. Now I want pharo > > to be cool. > > > > Stef > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 1, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] MIMEdatabase fix?

by Michael Rueger

StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> With my changes to Pharo (which of course first need to be >> integrated), > > I will integrate them this evening. A quick test with loading the following packages into both the latest Pharo and a Squeak 3.9.1 image seemed to work :-) from http://www.squeaksource.com/KomHttpServer DynamicBindings-gc.7 NamedProcess-RJT.2 KomServices-gc.19 from http://squeaksource.com/PharoInbox KomHttpServer-michael_rueger.45 from http://squeaksource.com/Seaside Seaside2.8a1-pmm.583 Michael

March 1, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] A point a.k.a excuse to you

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

tx Stef On Mar 1, 2009, at 10:46 PM, Sebastian Sastre wrote: > Hi Stephane, I would not take it that seriously. Just focus that > good energy you > have and use it in getting things done in pharo and adding real > value to it. > Much it will receiver in return I'm sure of that. > best, > sebastian > > >> -----Mensaje original----- >> De: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] En >> nombre de Stephane Ducasse >> Enviado el: Sunday, March 01, 2009 18:29 >> Para: Pharo Development >> Asunto: [Pharo-project] A point a.k.a excuse to you >> >> Hi guys >> >> I probably should not have forwarded to you the email I replied to >> matthew >> but I was thinking that other people can know that I was personally >> touched >> by the situation in Squeak. >> I'm sorry about. >> >> We got a lot of bird names and others. Recently somebody was >> implying >> that >> marcus was bashing squeak because he sent an email on the pharo >> mailing-list stating that the situation >> for keyboard was worse in squeak. >> I'm fed up. I'm interested in pharo because I want to create >> free and >> good energy. >> We did a lot in the past and I want to continue. Now I unregistered >> from the squeak mailing-list >> and I will not justify anymore why I quit. Now I want pharo >> to be cool. >> >> Stef >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 1, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] A point a.k.a excuse to you

by Mariano Martinez Peck

I have the blame of it. I am who send emails to both list. So...this is my fault. Sorry about it. The main problem I have is that when I have questions, suggestions, ideas or whatever, I really don't know where to post it: if in squeak-dev or pharo. I really don't know If what I want to say depends on the VM, or the image or to packages that are shared between both of them. In addition, I think there are important people that are only in one of the list. So, perhaps I miss an answer If I only send emails in one list. And probably, the same discussion could be useful for both lists. What you think I should do ? which would be the better way so that not to cause the problem mentioned above? I am following Pharo very near because this really interest me. I really want to LIVE AND EAT using an open source smalltalk. I don't want smalltalk to play. I want to WORK with it. So, I think Pharo is the better approach for my intention. But, 90% the time I spend in Squeak is for SqueakDBX. And SqueakDBX doesn't work well in pharo. I have random segmentation faults trough FFI which I don't have in Squeak. I didn't want to spend many time trying to see what the problem is till 1.0 is releases. At that moment, I will look for the problem. When this is fixed, I will then really start using pharo 100%. Cheers, Mariano On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Sebastian Sastre <ssastre(a)seaswork.com>wrote: > Hi Stephane, I would not take it that seriously. Just focus that good > energy you > have and use it in getting things done in pharo and adding real value to > it. > Much it will receiver in return I'm sure of that. > best, > sebastian > > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] En > > nombre de Stephane Ducasse > > Enviado el: Sunday, March 01, 2009 18:29 > > Para: Pharo Development > > Asunto: [Pharo-project] A point a.k.a excuse to you > > > > Hi guys > > > > I probably should not have forwarded to you the email I replied to > > matthew > > but I was thinking that other people can know that I was personally > > touched > > by the situation in Squeak. > > I'm sorry about. > > > > We got a lot of bird names and others. Recently somebody was > > implying > > that > > marcus was bashing squeak because he sent an email on the pharo > > mailing-list stating that the situation > > for keyboard was worse in squeak. > > I'm fed up. I'm interested in pharo because I want to create > > free and > > good energy. > > We did a lot in the past and I want to continue. Now I unregistered > > from the squeak mailing-list > > and I will not justify anymore why I quit. Now I want pharo > > to be cool. > > > > Stef > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 1, 2009