October 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] thanks to all the sprinters

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi I want to thank you all for the three or four last days. It was good energy. Stef PS: for the others, adrian took some notes for the next iteration http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Milestones The idea is to have some focused tasks beside the normal continuous improvement and also have previous items. stef

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] scriptloader>>loadComanche

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Yes with johan. We want that for 1.1 :) Stef On Oct 20, 2009, at 5:33 PM, Damien Cassou wrote: > On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:08 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> this is what I mean with Universes. > > Adrian is working on this if I understood correctly. > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > popular by not having them." James Iry > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] '' asNumber -> 'Reading a number failed'

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys we talked about it at the end of the sprint and we came up to the conclusion that we should have the two methods: - asNumber (or with another name) raising an error - squeezeNUmberOutOfStringOr: aNumber that return what is can or aNumber Then we learned that this is not a good idea to do a lot of changes at the end of a release phase. So adrian rollbacked the changes and we should get a solution (two methods in 1.1 early). Stef

Oct. 20, 2009

[Pharo-project] Fwd: [update 1.1] #11010

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> From: stÃ©phane ducasse <ducasse(a)iam.unibe.ch> > Date: October 20, 2009 4:50:56 PM GMT+02:00 > To: Pharo Development <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Subject: [update 1.1] #11010 > > > > 11010 > ----- > > - Issue 1268: mantis 7401: Float negativeZero shallowCopy loose its > negative sign > - Issue 1241: Mantis 6719 Float nan comparison is broken Jorge (via stef machine)

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] scriptloader>>loadComanche

by Damien Cassou

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:08 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > this is what I mean with Universes. Adrian is working on this if I understood correctly. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Pharo Core 1.1 alpha

by Damien Cassou

On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Laval Jannik <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: > It would be cool to have the new source file in this package and/or > available on the website. it is integrated in Pharo images currently. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] Detecting overriding class extensions

by Damien Cassou

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Simon Denier <Simon.Denier(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> You can have a look at the following script which basically warns you >> if you load a package that overrides a method IIRC. > > > Sorry but I cant see a difference. Can you detail a use case that I > can reproduce? (because I know there are still a few overrides in > Moose but can not reproduce) You open a Pharo core image. You load the script. You load Moose => you will get exceptions if Moose override anything -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

Oct. 20, 2009

[Pharo-project] Question about deepCopy,

by arnaud Jean Baptiste

question: deepCopy have this behavior : - copy self. - then send deepCopy on all instance var. this behavior, make infinite loop when a object have instance variable which reference to himself or more longer cycle. Why don't replace deepCopy by veryDeepCopy, same behavior but copy each object only once (create collection and keep reference). performance issue ?

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] '' asNumber -> 'Reading a number failed'

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Ok. I am agree '' asNUmber is wrong and should rise an error. I was just asking because in other smalltalks (where it is also wrong) it also returned zero. My concern is about portability between dialects. If people find porting stuff to Pharo difficult, they won't do it. So, as suggested, I would implement, at least: Number>>asNumberOrZero ^self asNumberOr: 0 And Number>>asNumberOr: aNumber ^Number readFrom: self ifFail: [^aNumber] Can we all agree with this ? On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Nicolas Cellier < nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2009/10/20 <csrabak(a)bol.com.br>: > > Em 20/10/2009 10:04, Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> > escreveu: > > > >> 2009/10/20 : > >>> I don't see where are we willing to arrive at. > >>> > >>> '' asNumber gives zero in several other Smalltalks (Dolphin and VW, > >>> for example) and used to work as Mariano mentions in earlier versions > >>> of Pharo (which makes me surmise is the way Squeak worked as well). > >>> > >>> So attempting addressing Nicolas point: the context where '' can be > >>> expected is when reading text from some other source (mainly text from > >>> a file) into you Pharo application. > >>> > >>> A library API has to have a reasonable balance between an excruciating > >>> "conceptual right" set of calls and the "principle of minimum > >>> surprise" for the corner cases in general. > >>> > >>> From this discussion, are we saying that for now on in order to have > >>> strings converted into numbers if we want to have the behaviour '' > >>> returning zero we shall change from '' asNumber to '' asNumberOrZero > >>> and this method will call a more general method like this? > >>> > >>> Number>>asNumberOrZero > >>> ^self asNumberOr: 0 > >>> > >>> And > >>> > >>> Number>>asNumberOr: aNumber > >>> ^Number readFrom: self ifFail: [^aNumber] > >>> > >>> Just my .0199999.... > >>> > >>> > >> > >> If this is an identified inter-dialect feature, then some applications > >> will rely on it, and then yes we SHOULD maintain the feature. > > > > Yes I think the crux is identifying if it is a feature that has become a > 'de facto standard' or not. . . > > > >> > >> But we can in no way keep all the silly other cases. > >> However, did you try these in other dialects > > > > FWIW: > > > >> ' ' asNumber. > > > > Returns 0 in VW and an exception in Dolphin (note that if you put '' > instead of ' ' in Dolphin it returns zero instead) > > > >> 'a' asNumber. > > > > Returns 0 in VW and an exception in Dolphin. > > > >> 'b2' asNumber. > > > > Returns 0 in VW and an exception in Dolphin. > > > >> etc... > > > > ST/X generates exceptions for all the cases above. > > > > > >> > >> I guess VW & Dolphin should fail in all these cases... > >> Squeak did not and would answer 0 in most cases, and that's what I > >> don't want to see anymore... > >> > >> Another question is should we authorize non blank trailing characters > >> ? I think no. > >> '2r' asNumber. > >> '2 + 3' asNumber. > >> etc.. > >> > > > > We had a discussion about this in another thread but we did not arrived > at a final position if memory serves me. > > > > [snipped] > > > > HTH > > > > In squeak, that started almost 4 years ago, and I remember some > complaints too in vwnc list around that time. > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-April/103137.ht… > http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=3512 > > Nicolas > > > -- > > Cesar Rabak > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Oct. 20, 2009

Re: [Pharo-project] '' asNumber -> 'Reading a number failed'

by Nicolas Cellier

2009/10/20 <csrabak(a)bol.com.br>: > Em 20/10/2009 10:04, Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> escreveu: > >> 2009/10/20 Â : >>> I don't see where are we willing to arrive at. >>> >>> '' asNumber gives zero in several other Smalltalks (Dolphin and VW, >>> for example) and used to work as Mariano mentions in earlier versions >>> of Pharo (which makes me surmise is the way Squeak worked as well). >>> >>> So attempting addressing Nicolas point: the context where '' can be >>> expected is when reading text from some other source (mainly text from >>> a file) into you Pharo application. >>> >>> A library API has to have a reasonable balance between an excruciating >>> "conceptual right" set of calls and the "principle of minimum >>> surprise" for the corner cases in general. >>> >>> From this discussion, are we saying that for now on in order to have >>> strings converted into numbers if we want to have the behaviour '' >>> returning zero we shall change from '' asNumber to '' asNumberOrZero >>> and this method will call a more general method like this? >>> >>> Number>>asNumberOrZero >>> ^self asNumberOr: 0 >>> >>> And >>> >>> Number>>asNumberOr: aNumber >>> ^Number readFrom: self ifFail: [^aNumber] >>> >>> Just my .0199999.... >>> >>> >> >> If this is an identified inter-dialect feature, then some applications >> will rely on it, and then yes we SHOULD maintain the feature. > > Yes I think the crux is identifying if it is a feature that has become a 'de facto standard' or not. . . > >> >> But we can in no way keep all the silly other cases. >> However, did you try these in other dialects > > FWIW: > >> ' ' asNumber. > > Returns 0 in VW and an exception in Dolphin (note that if you put '' instead of ' ' in Dolphin it returns zero instead) > >> 'a' asNumber. > > Returns 0 in VW and an exception in Dolphin. > >> 'b2' asNumber. > > Returns 0 in VW and an exception in Dolphin. > >> etc... > > ST/X generates exceptions for all the cases above. > > >> >> I guess VW & Dolphin should fail in all these cases... >> Squeak did not and would answer 0 in most cases, and that's what I >> don't want to see anymore... >> >> Another question is should we authorize non blank trailing characters >> ? I think no. >> '2r' asNumber. >> '2 + 3' asNumber. >> etc.. >> > > We had a discussion about this in another thread but we did not arrived at a final position if memory serves me. > > [snipped] > > HTH > In squeak, that started almost 4 years ago, and I remember some complaints too in vwnc list around that time. http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-April/103137.ht… http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=3512 Nicolas > -- > Cesar Rabak > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Oct. 20, 2009