July 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Re: Pharo Smalltalk

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Just an important point I want to add: for me I do not oppose beauty and fun. One of the goal of pharo is to get beauty and beautiful, clean and lean (and fast) abstractions. I want people to be able to learn and grow themselves from it. I'm tired to say to the smart people I worked with: don't look at that or that because this is too old and fragile and patched. Now based on beautiful abstractions people should be able to create other fun stuff. I never understood why people oppose these two notions. I want nice code to go fast in the next generation.... stef

July 5, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] new slices

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jul 5, 2008, at 12:05 AM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > with my newest uploads there are slices waiting for > review: > > SLICE-squeak7074fixAsFloat > SLICE-squeak7080 > SLICE-squeak7081 > SLICE-squeak7082fixRecentBrowser > SLICE-squeak7083 > > And > > SLICE-squeakUpdate7073 I moved it to treated. and waiting for other feedback. > is already in the updates and can be deleted. > > Norbert > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 5, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Re: Monticello 1.5

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>>> Adrian and other MC experts could you have a look at the system editor and related functionality because it will start to be really important to get an atomic loading system? It would be also important to give feedback to matthew. Stef

July 5, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] WideStringTest>>testSubstrings

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

And I should really code the process to force ourselves to run the tests. Argh. We need a test server. Stef On Jul 4, 2008, at 3:53 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Sorry I was ill and I should not have done it. > I read your comment but they slipped through my mind. > > Stef > > On Jul 3, 2008, at 11:06 PM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > >> Stef, >> >> you propably missed my comment on the last SLICE. You >> need to do a >> >> String initialize >> >> to cope the changes. After that the test will succeed. >> >> Norbert >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 5, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Re: Pharo Smalltalk

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> 3.9 was the best release I've used yet. I'm glad someone is >> thinking about > a *serious* open source Smalltalk instead of arguing about how they > miss > that stupid mouse or whining about eToys. ******THANKS******* you cannot imagine how it is a good feeling to hear that. > > >> - 7 The squeak model is flawed. We do not want a model were >> consumers can put exigences on producers. >> Even if good customers are important and this is why we want to have >> Aida/Seaside and a lot of cool projects >> to run on pharo. > > The image is looking very nice so far, I loved it when I opened a > menu and > all the crap I never use was finally gone. I excited to see where > you take > Pharo, but it's off to a good start. our plan is to work steadily and slowly on improvement. If you have suggestion, bugs report, code fixes, concerns about our process, just say it. I just realized that I must must must run the test before publishing a new update. I was too ill to think :) >> > You did make a better Squeak, and I look forward to seeing Pharo > burn the > diskpacks a bit and throw out all the crap bogging Squeak down. > Keep up the > good work, some of us do appreciate it. Thanks. We will try our best. Marcus do you hear that :) because marcus was really burnt by squeak :( > > > Ramon Leon > http://onsmalltalk.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 5, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] How to follow which packages have been integrated ,

by Norbert Hartl

On Sat, 2008-07-05 at 00:16 +0200, Serge Stinckwich wrote: > I still have some difficulties to know exactly what have been > integrated in Pharo after putting some .mcz in the PharoInbox. > I have to check manually if packages have been integrated or just put > in PharoTreated (and i to repropose another version of the fix to the > PharoInbox repository). > That is one of the reasons why I find it important to open issues on all fixes. When the package is harvested there should be a comment at the end of this issue which version includes your changes. > It's even more difficult when the name packages have been renamed > and/or the comments modified. What the others are doing ? > Thank you for your attention. > I don't understand what you mean. Can you elaborate? Norbert

July 4, 2008

[Pharo-project] How to follow which packages have been integrated ,

by Serge Stinckwich

I still have some difficulties to know exactly what have been integrated in Pharo after putting some .mcz in the PharoInbox. I have to check manually if packages have been integrated or just put in PharoTreated (and i to repropose another version of the fix to the PharoInbox repository). It's even more difficult when the name packages have been renamed and/or the comments modified. What the others are doing ? Thank you for your attention. -- Serge Stinckwich Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] http://blog.doesnotunderstand.org/

July 4, 2008

[Pharo-project] new slices

by Norbert Hartl

with my newest uploads there are slices waiting for review: SLICE-squeak7074fixAsFloat SLICE-squeak7080 SLICE-squeak7081 SLICE-squeak7082fixRecentBrowser SLICE-squeak7083 And SLICE-squeakUpdate7073 is already in the updates and can be deleted. Norbert

July 4, 2008

Re: {Spam?} RE: [Pharo-project] Re: Pharo Smalltalk

by Bill Schwab

Steph, The only chopping-block item mentioned below which I might want to rescue is Alice. Actually, Alice isn't all that great; I have used it for a poor-man's 3D CAD system on a few projects, and found it useful. What I am really asking for us to consider is (when other stuff is done and we're getting bored) a retained-mode 3D graphic system. The 3D objects from Croquet might be the answer, but of course, on top of Pharo vs. Squeak. If we do this well enough, Croquet might come to us :) Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> ramon.leon(a)allresnet.com 07/04/08 11:44 AM >>> > - 1 we need freedom. We do not want to maintain: etoy, > nebraska, alice > and the like. It's about time that stuff got dumped. > in 3.9 we harvested 625 bugs fixed but apparently this was not > valuable. We think that 3.9 was a positive experience > even if marcus got sick and burnt out. 3.9 was the best release I've used yet. I'm glad someone is thinking about a *serious* open source Smalltalk instead of arguing about how they miss that stupid mouse or whining about eToys. > - 7 The squeak model is flawed. We do not want a model were > consumers can put exigences on producers. > Even if good customers are important and this is why we want to have > Aida/Seaside and a lot of cool projects > to run on pharo. The image is looking very nice so far, I loved it when I opened a menu and all the crap I never use was finally gone. I excited to see where you take Pharo, but it's off to a good start. > Because we do not want to have complain all the times. We want to be > able to invent the future, rethink design > decision, apply good practices but not maintain the cool but old > features and experiments of others. Sorry but we > did that and now this is over. > We are also sorry but we do not believe in big bang changes and we > waited too much after spoon. So may be we are > wrong, probably but again we had to do something for ourselves. You're not wrong. Make Pharo into a serious clean open source Smalltalk kernel that can run Seaside and when the masses come for Seaside they'll choose Pharo over Squeak and Pharo could easily become the larger community. All that legacy stuff in Squeak is holding it back and stopping the mainstream from giving it a chance. Squeak is ugly, cluttered, unfocused, full of garbage that most developers will never need or use, and apparently stagnant because part of the community resists any and all change. Maybe Squeak 4.0 will fix that, maybe it won't, but so far Pharo is starting to look like the best distro for the future. > We tried to really make a better Squeak and got sick, burnt > and more. So now if I do not want to destroy the > little flame we have for Smalltalk we **must** do pharo, > because this is like new dry wood that you put on the fire place. > It brings exciting future. > > Stef You did make a better Squeak, and I look forward to seeing Pharo burn the diskpacks a bit and throw out all the crap bogging Squeak down. Keep up the good work, some of us do appreciate it. Ramon Leon http://onsmalltalk.com _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 4, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Streams head start

by Bill Schwab

Adrian, First, please understand that the primary security hole is ME, not Seaside :) With that said, there are a few things I would like to see: (1) users must be challenged for username and password before they are allowed to do anything; I have accomplished this via tasks. I have no need to allow users to register themselves - the site should say "GO AWAY!" to all but approved users - medical stuff. (2) SSL/https, ideally with an idiot-proof selection between being proxied behind Apache and Comanche running over SSL courtesy of the cryptography team. (3) brain-dead simple Apache setup My problem is that I cannot afford to make a mistake with most data that I protect. The current project needs some security, but a spill would not make AP wires, so it is a great place to start while I figure out how lock everything down. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> adi(a)netstyle.ch 07/04/08 10:28 AM >>> Hi Bill, On Jul 4, 2008, at 16:11 , Bill Schwab wrote: > I found a good starting Seaside project. It requires only minimal > security to start, and while a little clumsy, it will actually be > useful > to me, and will be a good demo piece for "selling" future Seaside > projects that will have to be very secure. Long story. Can you elaborate on the kind of security? Is this Seaside security in general or are you talking about applications that allow users to execute code in a sandbox? Or something else? I'd be interested to hear more... Adrian _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 4, 2008