July 4, 2008
5:31 p.m.
Steph, The only chopping-block item mentioned below which I might want to rescue is Alice. Actually, Alice isn't all that great; I have used it for a poor-man's 3D CAD system on a few projects, and found it useful. What I am really asking for us to consider is (when other stuff is done and we're getting bored) a retained-mode 3D graphic system. The 3D objects from Croquet might be the answer, but of course, on top of Pharo vs. Squeak. If we do this well enough, Croquet might come to us :) Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> ramon.leon@allresnet.com 07/04/08 11:44 AM >>> > - 1 we need freedom. We do not want to maintain: etoy, > nebraska, alice > and the like. It's about time that stuff got dumped. > in 3.9 we harvested 625 bugs fixed but apparently this was not > valuable. We think that 3.9 was a positive experience > even if marcus got sick and burnt out. 3.9 was the best release I've used yet. I'm glad someone is thinking about a *serious* open source Smalltalk instead of arguing about how they miss that stupid mouse or whining about eToys. > - 7 The squeak model is flawed. We do not want a model were > consumers can put exigences on producers. > Even if good customers are important and this is why we want to have > Aida/Seaside and a lot of cool projects > to run on pharo. The image is looking very nice so far, I loved it when I opened a menu and all the crap I never use was finally gone. I excited to see where you take Pharo, but it's off to a good start. > Because we do not want to have complain all the times. We want to be > able to invent the future, rethink design > decision, apply good practices but not maintain the cool but old > features and experiments of others. Sorry but we > did that and now this is over. > We are also sorry but we do not believe in big bang changes and we > waited too much after spoon. So may be we are > wrong, probably but again we had to do something for ourselves. You're not wrong. Make Pharo into a serious clean open source Smalltalk kernel that can run Seaside and when the masses come for Seaside they'll choose Pharo over Squeak and Pharo could easily become the larger community. All that legacy stuff in Squeak is holding it back and stopping the mainstream from giving it a chance. Squeak is ugly, cluttered, unfocused, full of garbage that most developers will never need or use, and apparently stagnant because part of the community resists any and all change. Maybe Squeak 4.0 will fix that, maybe it won't, but so far Pharo is starting to look like the best distro for the future. > We tried to really make a better Squeak and got sick, burnt > and more. So now if I do not want to destroy the > little flame we have for Smalltalk we **must** do pharo, > because this is like new dry wood that you put on the fire place. > It brings exciting future. > > Stef You did make a better Squeak, and I look forward to seeing Pharo burn the diskpacks a bit and throw out all the crap bogging Squeak down. Keep up the good work, some of us do appreciate it. Ramon Leon http://onsmalltalk.com _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project