December 2008 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] What does HODataBase do?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi piers this is not pervere we should do it part of our process this is just that the start of pharo is getting all our attention. On Dec 20, 2008, at 3:35 PM, Piers Cawley wrote: > So, because I'm perverse like that, and because it's there, I grabbed > Damian's latest dev-image and ran the Code Critics against everything > in the image. Once the bottom of my macbook had returned to a bearable > temperature, I started going through the results and found scads of > references to the "undeclared variable" HODataBase and other HO* > names, mostly in the OBEnriched family of classes. Does anyone have > any idea what's going on? No idea what is HO* Stef > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: could you sign the pharo license?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

So keith could you publish your code in WTF and MIT? Note that any code publish to the squeak mantis is MIT and not WTF Stef On Dec 20, 2008, at 3:27 PM, Michael Roberts wrote: > my feeling is that there should be a single license that is agreed to > and signed by everyone. I hate the fact that we are discussing > licenses. Given the mess that Squeak licensing got into I don't > propose there is any choice on the matter. Also, the documentation on > the web sites seems to be very clear on this matter. > > cheers, > > Mike > > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > wrote: >> Hi Keith, >> >> Its nothing against your license (I think its cool). Its just that we >> initially decided that whoever contributes needs to sign the >> agreement. Like this, we will not have to discuss licenses over and >> over again. Now imagine, that every second Pharo contributor comes >> with his own license. Even if it is more liberal, it just adds >> complexity to the process and makes us discuss this topic, like we do >> now. I would prefer to fix a bug instead... >> >> Hence, if you could sign the "official" agreement, that would be >> great. >> >> Cheers, >> Adrian >> >> On Dec 20, 2008, at 13:09 , Keith Hodges wrote: >> >>> StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>> now the questions are >>>> - is it really that difficult to agree for a project on a given >>>> simple license such as MIT? >>>> - I also hate licenses since they polute our lives but I just >>>> don't >>>> care and signed MIT >>>> - should we accept this kind of license (of course it is >>>> compatible >>>> with MIT) >>>> but this looks a door open to the mess. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure squeakers realized that after all the effort of >>>> yohsiki >>>> to get SqueakEtoys clean >>>> 3.11 could be WTFPL because keith commit on it. >>>> >>> Thats a complete load of rubbish. >> >>> No. 1 I dont see any need for profanity. >>> >>> No. 2 my licence is not like GNU, please dont say it is because you >>> will >>> just confuse people. >>> >>> Its freer than MIT because I don't care if you take my code and sell >>> it >>> as your own. You can even say you wrote it if you like. The >>> responsibility for what you do with it is yours not mine. >>> >>> Keith >>>> I'm quite convinced that they will boycott such a code. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: could you sign the pharo license?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I read my email the wrong way. See the answer of adrian and frankly I imagine somebody at ViewPoints collecting home made liberal licenses..... I **hate** licenses certainly much more than you and I got ***BURNED*** during years because of the license of Squeak I have folder full of crap to get Squeak presentation accepted at Linux days I hate the lawer oriented view they impose on us this is why I took mit and period. Stef On Dec 20, 2008, at 1:09 PM, Keith Hodges wrote: > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> now the questions are >> - is it really that difficult to agree for a project on a given >> simple license such as MIT? >> - I also hate licenses since they polute our lives but I just don't >> care and signed MIT >> - should we accept this kind of license (of course it is compatible >> with MIT) >> but this looks a door open to the mess. >> >> I'm not sure squeakers realized that after all the effort of yohsiki >> to get SqueakEtoys clean >> 3.11 could be WTFPL because keith commit on it. >> > Thats a complete load of rubbish. > > No. 1 I dont see any need for profanity. > > No. 2 my licence is not like GNU, please dont say it is because you > will > just confuse people. > Its freer than MIT because I don't care if you take my code and sell > it > as your own. You can even say you wrote it if you like. The > responsibility for what you do with it is yours not mine. > > Keith >> I'm quite convinced that they will boycott such a code. >> >> Stef >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] focus and moving windows

by Alexandre Bergel

It seems to work. Strange that we had a non-zero value. Is double- clicking being used in pharo ? Cheers, Alexandre On 20 Dec 2008, at 07:43, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > Hi Alex, > > I find the existing behavior also strange. > Setting the threshold in HandMorph>>waitForClicksOrDrag:event: to 0 > seems to fix this. > > Does this solve your problem? > > Adrian > > On Dec 20, 2008, at 00:18 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> This was the case few years ago in Squeak >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> On 19 Dec 2008, at 16:25, Bill Schwab wrote: >> >>> FWIW, I frequently have had troubles like that with graphical >>> systems >>> that were mixing current cursor position with positions from the >>> events. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >>> University of Florida >>> Department of Anesthesiology >>> PO Box 100254 >>> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >>> >>> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >>> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >>> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> >>> >>>>>> Alexandre.Bergel(a)inria.fr 12/19/2008 12:42 PM >>> >>> Dear List, >>> >>> The cursor position when I grab a window and move it around is not >>> the >>> >>> same than the position where I clicked first. I do not know whether >>> this is clear or not. >>> Sadly, I do not have enough expertise on this to effectively >>> produce a >>> >>> fix. >>> >>> Issue #420 >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] New pharo-dev based on 10196

by Alexandre Bergel

Make sense to me Alexandre On 20 Dec 2008, at 07:16, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > In a recent discussion with Marcus and Lukas we came to the conclusion > that a package universe for Pharo 1.0 would be the best solution. > Somebody would be responsible to manage this universe and only add > packages that are tested and known to work. I think this is really > important that we have higher standards regarding external packages. > In my experience with SqueakMap, the chance that a package actually > works is less than the chance it is not working. This is a show > stopper for newcomers. > Our plan was to remove SqueakMap from Pharo-core, but I assume it > could be put into the universe so it can be loaded again. > > Cheers, > Adrian > > On Dec 20, 2008, at 01:04 , Bill Schwab wrote: > >> Damien, >> >> Thanks for making the new image. Is there a way to tell the image to >> display walkbacks instead of going straight into the debugger? >> >> The new image seemed a nice excuse to play catch-up, which means >> getting a few things loaded. >> >> Seaside - I recalled discussion of it, and quckly stumbled onto a >> closed bug report about >> >> ScriptLoader new universalInstaller universe install: 'Seaside'. >> >> That appears to work. The cryptography team's work will be >> important. >> This gets weird fast. I have a 3.9 image where it is installed >> correctly and works; I have very little idea how that happened. My >> subsequent installation attempts appear not to be complete. >> >> SqueakMap appears to be going away in Pharo. Replacing it appear to >> be >> Installer, ScriptLoader, and maybe some of your tools to build the >> developer images. Is there a clear correct way to install packages >> now? >> Put another way, if I make an attempt to sort out installing the >> cryptography and SSL classes in Pharo, how would recommend attacking >> it? >> >> Pharo is not even in beta yet, so no complaints, but I am missing >> something on how to go from a new core image to something that is >> ready >> for use. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 20, 2008

[Pharo-project] Notifiers

by Bill Schwab

Hello all, One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. starting with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid succession. Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029

Dec. 20, 2008

[Pharo-project] new look / monticello UI

by Michael Roberts

guys, I'm liking the new UI in Pharo. I've noticed in the Monticello browser that the buttons now don't have an enabled/disabled state. Is this intentional or noticed? thanks, Mike

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] New pharo-dev based on 10196

by Adrian Lienhard

On Dec 20, 2008, at 15:18 , Bill Schwab wrote: > Adrian, > > Loading SqueakMap might just prolong the pain. If I am following > correctly, the idea would be to use a universe to load the main > package > and then MC to grab the rest to my image to do what I want. The ideal > solution would be to get SSL registered in the universe. Is that the > idea? Exactly. For this we need the help of people that provide stable versions of their packages for Pharo. So at the beginning we may not have all packages we wish, but I'd rather not put any package into that universe without knowing that it properly loads and works in Pharo. Adrian > > > Bill > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > >>>> adi(a)netstyle.ch 12/20/08 5:16 AM >>> > In a recent discussion with Marcus and Lukas we came to the conclusion > that a package universe for Pharo 1.0 would be the best solution. > Somebody would be responsible to manage this universe and only add > packages that are tested and known to work. I think this is really > important that we have higher standards regarding external packages. > In my experience with SqueakMap, the chance that a package actually > works is less than the chance it is not working. This is a show > stopper for newcomers. > Our plan was to remove SqueakMap from Pharo-core, but I assume it > could be put into the universe so it can be loaded again. > > Cheers, > Adrian > > On Dec 20, 2008, at 01:04 , Bill Schwab wrote: > >> Damien, >> >> Thanks for making the new image. Is there a way to tell the image to >> display walkbacks instead of going straight into the debugger? >> >> The new image seemed a nice excuse to play catch-up, which means >> getting a few things loaded. >> >> Seaside - I recalled discussion of it, and quckly stumbled onto a >> closed bug report about >> >> ScriptLoader new universalInstaller universe install: 'Seaside'. >> >> That appears to work. The cryptography team's work will be >> important. >> This gets weird fast. I have a 3.9 image where it is installed >> correctly and works; I have very little idea how that happened. My >> subsequent installation attempts appear not to be complete. >> >> SqueakMap appears to be going away in Pharo. Replacing it appear to >> be >> Installer, ScriptLoader, and maybe some of your tools to build the >> developer images. Is there a clear correct way to install packages >> now? >> Put another way, if I make an attempt to sort out installing the >> cryptography and SSL classes in Pharo, how would recommend attacking >> it? >> >> Pharo is not even in beta yet, so no complaints, but I am missing >> something on how to go from a new core image to something that is >> ready >> for use. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Dec. 20, 2008

[Pharo-project] What does HODataBase do?

by Piers Cawley

So, because I'm perverse like that, and because it's there, I grabbed Damian's latest dev-image and ran the Code Critics against everything in the image. Once the bottom of my macbook had returned to a bearable temperature, I started going through the results and found scads of references to the "undeclared variable" HODataBase and other HO* names, mostly in the OBEnriched family of classes. Does anyone have any idea what's going on?

Dec. 20, 2008

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: [ANN] ConflictFinder (help needed!)

by Bill Schwab

Stef, This looks great, but I think it underscores something that has bothered me for a while: the various packages should not be prompting on installation. The updated Seaside installation is vastly improved, but it still comes to a dead halt over user-name/password for the configuration utility; those things can be set by a do-it after the package is installed, and I think that should be the default approach, so that loading the code does just that. Just my 2 asCents. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029

Dec. 20, 2008