Should I be reporting bugs in Pharo 3.0?
I don't want to create lots of noise - or create unnecessary work, but if I find bugs in Pharo 3.0, should I be reporting them? Or do you want me to try and repro them in 4.0 and then report them under 4.0? For example, I have a class that was a subclass of CustomHelp that overrode the class #pages method. I then decided to use Wiki help, and so moved my class to subclass Object, but then i noticed that the #pages method (which I was about to delete) still had an override green arrow symbol. Curious - I clicked it and got a walkback (as the UI is wrong). How do I report that? Do you want me to? I do have a fobgugz account. I've also noticed another error with the locked methods pane (not sure what to call it, and also really don't fully understand how it works). However it gets corrupted with long wrapping strings in the source. Do I report that? Tim -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Should-I-be-reporting-bugs-in-Pharo-3-0-tp4767284.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I've also noticed I keep getting re-prompted to enter my username when I save source (this is a very fresh image) - I think it may be because I've just saved comments and class methods so far - but its prompted me several times now for my name? Should I report steps for this? Tim -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Should-I-be-reporting-bugs-in-Pharo-3-0-tp4767284p4767... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
2014-07-09 21:48 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tamackinnon@gmail.com>:
I've also noticed I keep getting re-prompted to enter my username when I save source (this is a very fresh image) - I think it may be because I've just saved comments and class methods so far - but its prompted me several times now for my name?
Should I report steps for this?
Yes please report steps to reproduce this. And the other two bugs you described in the other mail. Please try to reproduce them with Pharo4.0 and report for that version at first. If they are serious or important or if there is a high demand for pharo3 users, we should open another bug entry for pharo3.0 too. regards nicolai
Tim
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OK - will do. I am finding that Nautilus in Pharo 3 is very flakey - its very easy to get into a position where you cant select anything in the package or class pane - and you just get walkbacks making it unusable. I'm surprised its not been noticed already. Tim -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Should-I-be-reporting-bugs-in-Pharo-3-0-tp4767284p4767... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
2014-07-09 22:51 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tamackinnon@gmail.com>:
OK - will do.
I am finding that Nautilus in Pharo 3 is very flakey - its very easy to get into a position where you cant select anything in the package or class pane - and you just get walkbacks making it unusable. I'm surprised its not been noticed already.
Tim
I am working on that :) Every bug report is helpfull. My observation is, most people have a worklfow that does not provoke this issues or accustomed to work around it. My goal is to have a solid systembrowser. I want to clean and simplify nautilus group/package handling, the caches and the way it updates on system messages (classdef. change, methods add/removed ...) Nicolai
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Hi Nicolai - I should have added that I like the direction that Nautilus is going (and it looks cool) - there is a lot of potential particularly if the code underneath is clean (my experience with the browser code from Squeak, was that it was messy - and seemed to have been ported through several systems). I have reported several bugs which I'm assuming you have seen. I think the problems surface more when something is new and you play around with it to understand what things do. I particularly like to understand the inheritance hierarchy of things I'm looking at - hence why I click those buttons. Tim -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Should-I-be-reporting-bugs-in-Pharo-3-0-tp4767284p4767... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Nicolai - I have just seen that you have a fix for one of the Nautilus issues I raised (awesome). Forgive me - but I don't yet know how to load up a slice and test it (but am willing to learn, so I can perhaps help more in the future). I've loaded up the latest Pharo 4.0 image - luanched monticello - but how do I load a slice? If its written up somewhere - I'm happy to go and read. I'm assuming the idea is that when you report a bug, if someone fixes it - you try and verify it and then I can mark it resolved in Fogbugz? Tim -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Should-I-be-reporting-bugs-in-Pharo-3-0-tp4767284p4767... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
2014-07-11 12:15 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tamackinnon@gmail.com>:
Nicolai - I have just seen that you have a fix for one of the Nautilus issues I raised (awesome).
Forgive me - but I don't yet know how to load up a slice and test it (but am willing to learn, so I can perhaps help more in the future).
I've loaded up the latest Pharo 4.0 image - luanched monticello - but how do I load a slice?
select repository "http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo40Inbox/main" in the right pane. -open that repository. -enter the slice number in the left or right field. -select the slice in the list on the right side (there may be different slices for one issue) -and choose "Load" for loading this slice or "Merge" If you want to see the diff before loading.
If its written up somewhere - I'm happy to go and read.
I'm assuming the idea is that when you report a bug, if someone fixes it - you try and verify it and then I can mark it resolved in Fogbugz?
Yes, we need people testing and reviewing the bug fixes. Just write a note if it is working. If it is not working or has other issues, change the status back to "work needed" Status description: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/?W65 Nicolai
Tim
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I'd like to come but hotel/accomodation rates looked prohibitive to me. Are there affordable options ? Phil On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2014-07-11 12:15 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tamackinnon@gmail.com>:
Nicolai - I have just seen that you have a fix for one of the Nautilus issues I raised (awesome).
Forgive me - but I don't yet know how to load up a slice and test it (but am willing to learn, so I can perhaps help more in the future).
I've loaded up the latest Pharo 4.0 image - luanched monticello - but how do I load a slice?
select repository "http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo40Inbox/main" in the right pane. -open that repository. -enter the slice number in the left or right field. -select the slice in the list on the right side (there may be different slices for one issue) -and choose "Load" for loading this slice or "Merge" If you want to see the diff before loading.
If its written up somewhere - I'm happy to go and read.
I'm assuming the idea is that when you report a bug, if someone fixes it - you try and verify it and then I can mark it resolved in Fogbugz?
Yes, we need people testing and reviewing the bug fixes.
Just write a note if it is working. If it is not working or has other issues, change the status back to "work needed"
Status description: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/?W65
Nicolai
Tim
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Phil - I think your message ended up in the wrong thread? You should try and attend ESUG though - its a great conference. I found a cheap hotel on Booking.com - but I bet there might a YMC or something in Cambridge that might make it more affordable (I recall people doing something similar in the past). Even if your accommodate is far away - it looks quite cheap to rent a bicycle for the week and cycle in. Tim On 11 Jul 2014, at 13:57, philippeback [via Smalltalk] <ml-node+s1294792n4767516h76@n4.nabble.com> wrote:
I'd like to come but hotel/accomodation rates looked prohibitive to me.
Are there affordable options ?
Phil
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:
2014-07-11 12:15 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]>: Nicolai - I have just seen that you have a fix for one of the Nautilus issues I raised (awesome).
Forgive me - but I don't yet know how to load up a slice and test it (but am willing to learn, so I can perhaps help more in the future).
I've loaded up the latest Pharo 4.0 image - luanched monticello - but how do I load a slice?
select repository "http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo40Inbox/main" in the right pane. -open that repository. -enter the slice number in the left or right field. -select the slice in the list on the right side (there may be different slices for one issue) -and choose "Load" for loading this slice or "Merge" If you want to see the diff before loading.
If its written up somewhere - I'm happy to go and read.
I'm assuming the idea is that when you report a bug, if someone fixes it - you try and verify it and then I can mark it resolved in Fogbugz?
Yes, we need people testing and reviewing the bug fixes.
Just write a note if it is working. If it is not working or has other issues, change the status back to "work needed"
Status description: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/?W65
Nicolai
Tim
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Nicolai - your instructions worked perfectly (thanks - I'm a smaller step closer to contributing). I tried the slice in a fresh image and hit some strange problems (might not be related to your fix, although its only when I load that I see them). I've put it in the FobFubgz and reassigned it back to you (hoepfully that's what I'm supposed to do). Tim -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Should-I-be-reporting-bugs-in-Pharo-3-0-tp4767284p4767... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Just to clarify - should I just submit for 4.0 and make a note that it applies to 3.0 and then you guys can make a duplicate? Or should I make a duplicate? If its me - how do I duplicate a bug in fogbugz - I can't see an option to do it (and would expect it to link the two) Tim -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Should-I-be-reporting-bugs-in-Pharo-3-0-tp4767284p4767... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
2014-07-09 23:08 GMT+02:00 Tim Mackinnon <tamackinnon@gmail.com>:
Just to clarify - should I just submit for 4.0 and make a note that it applies to 3.0 and then you guys can make a duplicate?
Or should I make a duplicate? If its me - how do I duplicate a bug in fogbugz - I can't see an option to do it (and would expect it to link the two)
Tim
Just submit for 4.0 and make a note about 3.0. I don't know if it is possible to duplicate an entry.
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On 09 Jul 2014, at 23:08, Tim Mackinnon <tamackinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
Just to clarify - should I just submit for 4.0 and make a note that it applies to 3.0 and then you guys can make a duplicate?
Or should I make a duplicate? If its me - how do I duplicate a bug in fogbugz - I can't see an option to do it (and would expect it to link the two)
We just make a new report and put the Pharo4 report as the *child* of the Pharo3 one, so that it will be tested first in Pharo4 Marcus
On 10 Jul 2014, at 08:52, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On 09 Jul 2014, at 23:08, Tim Mackinnon <tamackinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
Just to clarify - should I just submit for 4.0 and make a note that it applies to 3.0 and then you guys can make a duplicate?
Or should I make a duplicate? If its me - how do I duplicate a bug in fogbugz - I can't see an option to do it (and would expect it to link the two)
We just make a new report and put the Pharo4 report as the *child* of the Pharo3 one, so that it will be tested first in Pharo4
of course, in case we find that the bugfix deserves to be backported (is an important fix) otherwise, the fix will be there just in pharo4 :) Esteban
Marcus
Can I check one more item - should I record the actual Image version where bugs occur? In fogbugz, there is a version field - but I'm not sure what your convention is for these things? (Is it written down somewhere for me to read how to report good bugs using FogBugz). As an aside - I'm quite surprised how poor Fogbugz is. I had read it was a good bug tracker - but in practice its quite minimal. I'm quite shocked you can't easily duplicate a bug-report (I wrote to them and they said you have to use some browser plugin as its not built in), I also can't see how to link bug-report (as in, similar to X). Not Pharo's fault of course. Tim -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Should-I-be-reporting-bugs-in-Pharo-3-0-tp4767284p4767... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Tim Mackinnon wrote:
Can I check one more item - should I record the actual Image version where bugs occur?
In fogbugz, there is a version field - but I'm not sure what your convention is for these things? (Is it written down somewhere for me to read how to report good bugs using FogBugz).
As an aside - I'm quite surprised how poor Fogbugz is. I had read it was a good bug tracker - but in practice its quite minimal. I'm quite shocked you can't easily duplicate a bug-report (I wrote to them and they said you have to use some browser plugin as its not built in), I also can't see how to link bug-report (as in, similar to X).
Not Pharo's fault of course.
Tim
There are two ways to link bug reports. 1. By writing 'Case #####' anywhere in the ticket. 2. Adding case number ##### to the Parent and Subcase fields in the side-bar. The Pharo CI Monkey only picks up slices for a parent case once all child cases are closed. Now I've never needed to duplicate a bug report. I'd like to understand what your use case is there? cheers -ben
Thanks for the fog bugz tips. Duplicating a bug is useful for several reasons I've found in the past: A) if you want to submit the same bug for two streams (eg Pharo 3 & 4) to be dealt with differently - copying them is handy. B) if you have a similar bug with similar steps bar 1, or a bug fix improves the situation but highlights another different problem... It's useful to duplicate a bug (with it conveniently linked) to save time. I'm not a huge Jira fan - but it makes that really easy & I'm suprised that fog bugz is so basic. Of course it's not the end of the world - but you do wonder why all bug tracking software is so clunky. I'm equally suprised that linking bugs by using the parent/child fields is the only way - if bugs are peers, it seems natural to just link them that way without needing a parent. Anyway - I'll use what we've got and get used to its eccentricities. Tim Sent from my iPhone On 13 Jul 2014, at 19:14, "Ben Coman [via Smalltalk]" <ml-node+s1294792n4767653h23@n4.nabble.com> wrote:
Tim Mackinnon wrote:
Can I check one more item - should I record the actual Image version where bugs occur?
In fogbugz, there is a version field - but I'm not sure what your convention is for these things? (Is it written down somewhere for me to read how to report good bugs using FogBugz).
As an aside - I'm quite surprised how poor Fogbugz is. I had read it was a good bug tracker - but in practice its quite minimal. I'm quite shocked you can't easily duplicate a bug-report (I wrote to them and they said you have to use some browser plugin as its not built in), I also can't see how to link bug-report (as in, similar to X).
Not Pharo's fault of course.
Tim
There are two ways to link bug reports. 1. By writing 'Case #####' anywhere in the ticket. 2. Adding case number ##### to the Parent and Subcase fields in the side-bar. The Pharo CI Monkey only picks up slices for a parent case once all child cases are closed.
Now I've never needed to duplicate a bug report. I'd like to understand what your use case is there?
cheers -ben
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Thanks for the tip Ben - yes Cases xxx looks like what I wanted (and I just tried it). Its a bit difficult to know this is available so I wanted to add it to the Pharo Fogbugz wiki but I can't edit that (it also looks like there are other variants too: http://help.fogcreek.com/7772/link-fogbugz-cases-to-changesetscommits-in-kil...). Tim -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Should-I-be-reporting-bugs-in-Pharo-3-0-tp4767284p4767... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 15 Jul 2014, at 11:50, Tim Mackinnon <tamackinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the tip Ben - yes Cases xxx looks like what I wanted (and I just tried it). Its a bit difficult to know this is available so I wanted to add it to the Pharo Fogbugz wiki but I can't edit that (it also looks like there are other variants too: http://help.fogcreek.com/7772/link-fogbugz-cases-to-changesetscommits-in-kil...).
I changed the config so that you can edit the Wiki. Marcus
Thanks Marcus - I will use it carefully and try and improve anything I find as I relearn things. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Should-I-be-reporting-bugs-in-Pharo-3-0-tp4767284p4768... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (6)
-
Ben Coman -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Marcus Denker -
Nicolai Hess -
phil＠highoctane.be -
Tim Mackinnon