Re: [Pharo-users] RFB on 2.0 + linux - semaphore primitive failed
Paul Wilke wrote
Hi, we have a similar problem. Which VM should one use? We had the StackVM in productive use but now after using Pharo 2.0 we have this primitive error and a stuck image. We found one cause in a the netname resolver.
I would greatly appreciate an info about which vm exactly to use or how to further diagnose this problem. Kind regards, Paul
I ended up reverting back to Pharo 1.4 and don't have plans to use Pharo 2 in production. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/RFB-on-2-0-linux-semaphore-primitive-failed-tp4701741p... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Paul2
Paul Wilke wrote
Hi, we have a similar problem. Which VM should one use? We had the StackVM in productive use but now after using Pharo 2.0 we have this primitive error and a stuck image. We found one cause in a the netname resolver.
Can you explain what is the netname resolver problem.
I would greatly appreciate an info about which vm exactly to use or how to further diagnose this problem. Kind regards, Paul
I ended up reverting back to Pharo 1.4 and don't have plans to use Pharo 2 in production.
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things. Stef
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/RFB-on-2-0-linux-semaphore-primitive-failed-tp4701741p... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 09/03/2013 12:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things.
Stef
Hi Stef, For reporting the RFB issue I made a thread (http://forum.world.st/How-do-diagnose-image-locks-up-cpu-100-on-save-td47046...) and uploaded a Pharo 2 image to dropbox where if you execute this code: RFBServer start Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false The image locks up using the 'pharo' VM and works fine using eliots vm. The uploaded image is Pharo-20619 with only RFB loaded. The other problem I had with Pharo 2 is the ever growing image size I reported here: http://forum.world.st/development-image-memory-use-180MB-in-Pharo-2-vs-40MB-... I understand this is due to some leaks involving morphs and announcers and things that are fixed in pharo 3 but not pharo 2. I have not gotten the impression that that fix will be backported, and even if it will it hasn't been yet so because of that and the RFB issue above I can't use Pharo 2 right now. Hope this helps and thanks for following up Paul
On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/03/2013 12:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things.
Stef
Hi Stef,
For reporting the RFB issue I made a thread (http://forum.world.st/How-do-diagnose-image-locks-up-cpu-100-on-save-td47046...) and uploaded a Pharo 2 image to dropbox where if you execute this code:
RFBServer start Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
The image locks up using the 'pharo' VM and works fine using eliots vm. The uploaded image is Pharo-20619 with only RFB loaded.
I will check this (after SUG)
The other problem I had with Pharo 2 is the ever growing image size I reported here:
http://forum.world.st/development-image-memory-use-180MB-in-Pharo-2-vs-40MB-...
I understand this is due to some leaks involving morphs and announcers and things that are fixed in pharo 3 but not pharo 2.
I have not gotten the impression that that fix will be backported, and even if it will it hasn't been yet so because of that and the RFB issue above I can't use Pharo 2 right now.
this is weird, because is the first time I see a report (well, I saw the other thread too) about this. and Pharo2 is productive since more than 8 months now (and I have some production stuff on it)... and I never seen it. This is likely not for the same reasons as pharo3 leaks (which btw are just partially solved, the leaks are still there). I would like to have that image to take a look, if possible, because is super-weird. Esteban ps: I would also like to know about other cases of this problem.
Hope this helps and thanks for following up
Paul
On Sep 4, 2013, at 1:13 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/03/2013 12:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things.
Stef
Hi Stef,
For reporting the RFB issue I made a thread (http://forum.world.st/How-do-diagnose-image-locks-up-cpu-100-on-save-td47046...) and uploaded a Pharo 2 image to dropbox where if you execute this code:
RFBServer start Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
The image locks up using the 'pharo' VM and works fine using eliots vm. The uploaded image is Pharo-20619 with only RFB loaded.
I will check this (after SUG)
after ESUG, I meant :) btw, I also have productive environments with RFB running... so I will take a look to that locking image too.
The other problem I had with Pharo 2 is the ever growing image size I reported here:
http://forum.world.st/development-image-memory-use-180MB-in-Pharo-2-vs-40MB-...
I understand this is due to some leaks involving morphs and announcers and things that are fixed in pharo 3 but not pharo 2.
I have not gotten the impression that that fix will be backported, and even if it will it hasn't been yet so because of that and the RFB issue above I can't use Pharo 2 right now.
this is weird, because is the first time I see a report (well, I saw the other thread too) about this. and Pharo2 is productive since more than 8 months now (and I have some production stuff on it)... and I never seen it. This is likely not for the same reasons as pharo3 leaks (which btw are just partially solved, the leaks are still there).
I would like to have that image to take a look, if possible, because is super-weird.
Esteban
ps: I would also like to know about other cases of this problem.
Hope this helps and thanks for following up
Paul
Am 04.09.2013 um 01:13 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/03/2013 12:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things.
Stef
Hi Stef,
For reporting the RFB issue I made a thread (http://forum.world.st/How-do-diagnose-image-locks-up-cpu-100-on-save-td47046...) and uploaded a Pharo 2 image to dropbox where if you execute this code:
RFBServer start Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
The image locks up using the 'pharo' VM and works fine using eliots vm. The uploaded image is Pharo-20619 with only RFB loaded.
I will check this (after SUG)
The other problem I had with Pharo 2 is the ever growing image size I reported here:
http://forum.world.st/development-image-memory-use-180MB-in-Pharo-2-vs-40MB-...
I understand this is due to some leaks involving morphs and announcers and things that are fixed in pharo 3 but not pharo 2.
I have not gotten the impression that that fix will be backported, and even if it will it hasn't been yet so because of that and the RFB issue above I can't use Pharo 2 right now.
this is weird, because is the first time I see a report (well, I saw the other thread too) about this. and Pharo2 is productive since more than 8 months now (and I have some production stuff on it)... and I never seen it. This is likely not for the same reasons as pharo3 leaks (which btw are just partially solved, the leaks are still there).
I would like to have that image to take a look, if possible, because is super-weird.
I reported a similar problem. I'm doing a project for that I need to use zinc, DBXTalk and RFB. Zinc provides a http interface which triggers a database lookup. In my scenario I can save the image until the first request is fired. Every image that will be saved later will bring up an empty window and 100% CPU usage on reopening. I just had some time to track it down. I can see this behavior on my mac laptop as well as on my linux server. I suspected dbxtalk until Paul brought up the RFB case. But I need to spend more time for tracking down the error or producing a reproducable image showing the effect. In all my other projects using zinc and RFB I didn't see the problem. But then I don't save images in production. Norbert
Hope this helps and thanks for following up
Paul
On 04 Sep 2013, at 10:47, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
In all my other projects using zinc and RFB I didn't see the problem. But then I don't save images in production.
Images are very cool and very useful, but saving images in production is a no go, it is asking for trouble, IMHO. Sven
Am 04.09.2013 um 10:54 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
On 04 Sep 2013, at 10:47, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
In all my other projects using zinc and RFB I didn't see the problem. But then I don't save images in production.
Images are very cool and very useful, but saving images in production is a no go, it is asking for trouble, IMHO.
That's what I said without making something general out of it ;) Norbert
On Sep 4, 2013, at 10:54 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 04 Sep 2013, at 10:47, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
In all my other projects using zinc and RFB I didn't see the problem. But then I don't save images in production.
Images are very cool and very useful, but saving images in production is a no go, it is asking for trouble, IMHO.
yes, but preparing an image for production often includes opening RFB and save it in that state :) Esteban
Sven
On 04 Sep 2013, at 11:43, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 10:54 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 04 Sep 2013, at 10:47, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
In all my other projects using zinc and RFB I didn't see the problem. But then I don't save images in production.
Images are very cool and very useful, but saving images in production is a no go, it is asking for trouble, IMHO.
yes, but preparing an image for production often includes opening RFB and save it in that state :)
I certainly understand, but using Metacello configurations, CI servers, zero-conf command line tools, the command line handlers and startup scripts you can build production images much more reliably and repeatably, instead of fiddling around in an interactive image. There are even some crude REPL tools available if you want to inspect running production images. That being said: in an ideal world, you should be able to run some tools in Pharo in a local image, connect to a remote image, and work there. We will get there, I am sure.
Esteban
Sven
Am 04.09.2013 um 11:43 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 10:54 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 04 Sep 2013, at 10:47, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
In all my other projects using zinc and RFB I didn't see the problem. But then I don't save images in production.
Images are very cool and very useful, but saving images in production is a no go, it is asking for trouble, IMHO.
yes, but preparing an image for production often includes opening RFB and save it in that state :)
It is a good thing to avoid that. Why? Because it is not automatically reproducible. If it is it might be better to put it in a start script. I let my images build by CI which I copy then on the target machine (in a script of course :) ). Then there are start scripts that e.g. start the RFB server. And those things always works until I save the image and change this way the prerequisites of the process. Or did you mean something different? Norbert
On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:10 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 04.09.2013 um 11:43 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 10:54 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 04 Sep 2013, at 10:47, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
In all my other projects using zinc and RFB I didn't see the problem. But then I don't save images in production.
Images are very cool and very useful, but saving images in production is a no go, it is asking for trouble, IMHO.
yes, but preparing an image for production often includes opening RFB and save it in that state :)
It is a good thing to avoid that. Why? Because it is not automatically reproducible. If it is it might be better to put it in a start script. I let my images build by CI which I copy then on the target machine (in a script of course :) ). Then there are start scripts that e.g. start the RFB server. And those things always works until I save the image and change this way the prerequisites of the process. Or did you mean something different?
in practice is the same. you have a "preparation script" that opens a RFB and saves the image. If you say that doing it that way is not good, then I disagree: pharo is image based and if we do not keep the power of having a "ready to start" image (in production too), then we are losing something important. ... and we are transforming a necessity (not doing something because is buggy) into a virtue... and that's just plain wrong :) but I think we are now talking of different things :)
Norbert
On Sep 4, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 04.09.2013 um 01:13 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/03/2013 12:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things.
Stef
Hi Stef,
For reporting the RFB issue I made a thread (http://forum.world.st/How-do-diagnose-image-locks-up-cpu-100-on-save-td47046...) and uploaded a Pharo 2 image to dropbox where if you execute this code:
RFBServer start Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
The image locks up using the 'pharo' VM and works fine using eliots vm. The uploaded image is Pharo-20619 with only RFB loaded.
I will check this (after SUG)
The other problem I had with Pharo 2 is the ever growing image size I reported here:
http://forum.world.st/development-image-memory-use-180MB-in-Pharo-2-vs-40MB-...
I understand this is due to some leaks involving morphs and announcers and things that are fixed in pharo 3 but not pharo 2.
I have not gotten the impression that that fix will be backported, and even if it will it hasn't been yet so because of that and the RFB issue above I can't use Pharo 2 right now.
this is weird, because is the first time I see a report (well, I saw the other thread too) about this. and Pharo2 is productive since more than 8 months now (and I have some production stuff on it)... and I never seen it. This is likely not for the same reasons as pharo3 leaks (which btw are just partially solved, the leaks are still there).
I would like to have that image to take a look, if possible, because is super-weird.
I reported a similar problem. I'm doing a project for that I need to use zinc, DBXTalk and RFB. Zinc provides a http interface which triggers a database lookup. In my scenario I can save the image until the first request is fired. Every image that will be saved later will bring up an empty window and 100% CPU usage on reopening. I just had some time to track it down. I can see this behavior on my mac laptop as well as on my linux server. I suspected dbxtalk until Paul brought up the RFB case. But I need to spend more time for tracking down the error or producing a reproducable image showing the effect. In all my other projects using zinc and RFB I didn't see the problem. But then I don't save images in production.
Norbert, I was talking about the "inflation" problem in that paragraph, not the RFB hang... can you confirm it? And well, yes RFB+Zinc+DBXTalk can be a combination to look... a lot of FFI/Plugin interaction there (specially if using Zodiac). Esteban
Norbert
Hope this helps and thanks for following up
Paul
Am 04.09.2013 um 11:41 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 04.09.2013 um 01:13 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/03/2013 12:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things.
Stef
Hi Stef,
For reporting the RFB issue I made a thread (http://forum.world.st/How-do-diagnose-image-locks-up-cpu-100-on-save-td47046...) and uploaded a Pharo 2 image to dropbox where if you execute this code:
RFBServer start Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
The image locks up using the 'pharo' VM and works fine using eliots vm. The uploaded image is Pharo-20619 with only RFB loaded.
I will check this (after SUG)
The other problem I had with Pharo 2 is the ever growing image size I reported here:
http://forum.world.st/development-image-memory-use-180MB-in-Pharo-2-vs-40MB-...
I understand this is due to some leaks involving morphs and announcers and things that are fixed in pharo 3 but not pharo 2.
I have not gotten the impression that that fix will be backported, and even if it will it hasn't been yet so because of that and the RFB issue above I can't use Pharo 2 right now.
this is weird, because is the first time I see a report (well, I saw the other thread too) about this. and Pharo2 is productive since more than 8 months now (and I have some production stuff on it)... and I never seen it. This is likely not for the same reasons as pharo3 leaks (which btw are just partially solved, the leaks are still there).
I would like to have that image to take a look, if possible, because is super-weird.
I reported a similar problem. I'm doing a project for that I need to use zinc, DBXTalk and RFB. Zinc provides a http interface which triggers a database lookup. In my scenario I can save the image until the first request is fired. Every image that will be saved later will bring up an empty window and 100% CPU usage on reopening. I just had some time to track it down. I can see this behavior on my mac laptop as well as on my linux server. I suspected dbxtalk until Paul brought up the RFB case. But I need to spend more time for tracking down the error or producing a reproducable image showing the effect. In all my other projects using zinc and RFB I didn't see the problem. But then I don't save images in production.
Norbert, I was talking about the "inflation" problem in that paragraph, not the RFB hang... can you confirm it?
No, I didn't look at that. So nothing to say. Norbert
And well, yes RFB+Zinc+DBXTalk can be a combination to look... a lot of FFI/Plugin interaction there (specially if using Zodiac).
Esteban
Norbert
Hope this helps and thanks for following up
Paul
On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/03/2013 12:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things.
Stef
Hi Stef,
For reporting the RFB issue I made a thread (http://forum.world.st/How-do-diagnose-image-locks-up-cpu-100-on-save-td47046...) and uploaded a Pharo 2 image to dropbox where if you execute this code:
RFBServer start Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
The image locks up using the 'pharo' VM and works fine using eliots vm. The uploaded image is Pharo-20619 with only RFB loaded.
I really do not like RFB⦠we do not use it at all in the daily development, yet it people load it for production environments. For me, the system we use every day should be identical to the production environment, else it is very hard to get a stable system. (We need to make what people get of of using RFB part of the base system: remote browsing and debugging).
The other problem I had with Pharo 2 is the ever growing image size I reported here:
http://forum.world.st/development-image-memory-use-180MB-in-Pharo-2-vs-40MB-...
I understand this is due to some leaks involving morphs and announcers and things that are fixed in pharo 3 but not pharo 2.
We are in the process of fixing them, but have not fixed all yet. I always thought that we would back port when we have fixed the problem completely in 3.0 Marcus
On 04 Sep 2013, at 08:57, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/03/2013 12:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things.
Stef
Hi Stef,
For reporting the RFB issue I made a thread (http://forum.world.st/How-do-diagnose-image-locks-up-cpu-100-on-save-td47046...) and uploaded a Pharo 2 image to dropbox where if you execute this code:
RFBServer start Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
The image locks up using the 'pharo' VM and works fine using eliots vm. The uploaded image is Pharo-20619 with only RFB loaded.
I really do not like RFB⦠we do not use it at all in the daily development, yet it people load it for production environments.
For me, the system we use every day should be identical to the production environment, else it is very hard to get a stable system.
(We need to make what people get of of using RFB part of the base system: remote browsing and debugging).
I totally agree: the why use RFB part and the remote browsing/debugging replacement part. On the other hand, if people want to use some library, that should be possible. The problem is this case is (again) that have a user (no offence Paul) of some external library that says 'I take a stock image + a library and it does not work in some specific case: pharo people help me please' while the maintainer of RFB is nowhere to be seen or heard of, let alone that he would be willing to take responsibility for how his/her software runs on recent Pharo image/vm/platform combinations - it _is_ a lot of work to maintain open source software. I looked a little bit at the RFB code: it is pretty OK AFAIKT, but it does hackery stuff with networking. And Paul's problem only occurs if you save an image with RFB connections open on Linux on a specific VM. It will require dedication to debug this.. Sven
The other problem I had with Pharo 2 is the ever growing image size I reported here:
http://forum.world.st/development-image-memory-use-180MB-in-Pharo-2-vs-40MB-...
I understand this is due to some leaks involving morphs and announcers and things that are fixed in pharo 3 but not pharo 2.
We are in the process of fixing them, but have not fixed all yet. I always thought that we would back port when we have fixed the problem completely in 3.0
Marcus
Am 04.09.2013 um 09:14 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
On 04 Sep 2013, at 08:57, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/03/2013 12:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things.
Stef
Hi Stef,
For reporting the RFB issue I made a thread (http://forum.world.st/How-do-diagnose-image-locks-up-cpu-100-on-save-td47046...) and uploaded a Pharo 2 image to dropbox where if you execute this code:
RFBServer start Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
The image locks up using the 'pharo' VM and works fine using eliots vm. The uploaded image is Pharo-20619 with only RFB loaded.
I really do not like RFB⦠we do not use it at all in the daily development, yet it people load it for production environments.
For me, the system we use every day should be identical to the production environment, else it is very hard to get a stable system.
(We need to make what people get of of using RFB part of the base system: remote browsing and debugging).
I totally agree: the why use RFB part and the remote browsing/debugging replacement part. On the other hand, if people want to use some library, that should be possible.
The problem is this case is (again) that have a user (no offence Paul) of some external library that says 'I take a stock image + a library and it does not work in some specific case: pharo people help me please' while the maintainer of RFB is nowhere to be seen or heard of, let alone that he would be willing to take responsibility for how his/her software runs on recent Pharo image/vm/platform combinations - it _is_ a lot of work to maintain open source software.
I looked a little bit at the RFB code: it is pretty OK AFAIKT, but it does hackery stuff with networking. And Paul's problem only occurs if you save an image with RFB connections open on Linux on a specific VM. It will require dedication to debug this..
I agree what you said in general. But my gut tells me that it isn't RFBs fault triggering the problem. I had the scenario "save image with open RFB connection" in mind. If you have a linux server and debugging stuff this is just the case you use. I did examine that. I started the image with a script that 1 minute later did save and quit. So there was an open RFB server socket listening but no connect. Doing a http request that triggers a database lookup (zinc and dbxtalk) within that minute the image goes into 100% CPU usage on reopening. So I wouldn't be so sure it is RFB. Norbert
Sven
The other problem I had with Pharo 2 is the ever growing image size I reported here:
http://forum.world.st/development-image-memory-use-180MB-in-Pharo-2-vs-40MB-...
I understand this is due to some leaks involving morphs and announcers and things that are fixed in pharo 3 but not pharo 2.
We are in the process of fixing them, but have not fixed all yet. I always thought that we would back port when we have fixed the problem completely in 3.0
Marcus
On 04 Sep 2013, at 10:53, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 04.09.2013 um 09:14 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
On 04 Sep 2013, at 08:57, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/03/2013 12:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things.
Stef
Hi Stef,
For reporting the RFB issue I made a thread (http://forum.world.st/How-do-diagnose-image-locks-up-cpu-100-on-save-td47046...) and uploaded a Pharo 2 image to dropbox where if you execute this code:
RFBServer start Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
The image locks up using the 'pharo' VM and works fine using eliots vm. The uploaded image is Pharo-20619 with only RFB loaded.
I really do not like RFB⦠we do not use it at all in the daily development, yet it people load it for production environments.
For me, the system we use every day should be identical to the production environment, else it is very hard to get a stable system.
(We need to make what people get of of using RFB part of the base system: remote browsing and debugging).
I totally agree: the why use RFB part and the remote browsing/debugging replacement part. On the other hand, if people want to use some library, that should be possible.
The problem is this case is (again) that have a user (no offence Paul) of some external library that says 'I take a stock image + a library and it does not work in some specific case: pharo people help me please' while the maintainer of RFB is nowhere to be seen or heard of, let alone that he would be willing to take responsibility for how his/her software runs on recent Pharo image/vm/platform combinations - it _is_ a lot of work to maintain open source software.
I looked a little bit at the RFB code: it is pretty OK AFAIKT, but it does hackery stuff with networking. And Paul's problem only occurs if you save an image with RFB connections open on Linux on a specific VM. It will require dedication to debug this..
I agree what you said in general. But my gut tells me that it isn't RFBs fault triggering the problem. I had the scenario "save image with open RFB connection" in mind. If you have a linux server and debugging stuff this is just the case you use. I did examine that. I started the image with a script that 1 minute later did save and quit. So there was an open RFB server socket listening but no connect. Doing a http request that triggers a database lookup (zinc and dbxtalk) within that minute the image goes into 100% CPU usage on reopening.
So I wouldn't be so sure it is RFB.
Yeah, I know, but Paul case was just with a stock image/vm + RFB and it was triggered by the image save. Like I said, these things are hard.
Norbert
Sven
The other problem I had with Pharo 2 is the ever growing image size I reported here:
http://forum.world.st/development-image-memory-use-180MB-in-Pharo-2-vs-40MB-...
I understand this is due to some leaks involving morphs and announcers and things that are fixed in pharo 3 but not pharo 2.
We are in the process of fixing them, but have not fixed all yet. I always thought that we would back port when we have fixed the problem completely in 3.0
Marcus
On Sep 4, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 04 Sep 2013, at 10:53, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 04.09.2013 um 09:14 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
On 04 Sep 2013, at 08:57, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/03/2013 12:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things.
Stef
Hi Stef,
For reporting the RFB issue I made a thread (http://forum.world.st/How-do-diagnose-image-locks-up-cpu-100-on-save-td47046...) and uploaded a Pharo 2 image to dropbox where if you execute this code:
RFBServer start Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
The image locks up using the 'pharo' VM and works fine using eliots vm. The uploaded image is Pharo-20619 with only RFB loaded.
I really do not like RFB⦠we do not use it at all in the daily development, yet it people load it for production environments.
For me, the system we use every day should be identical to the production environment, else it is very hard to get a stable system.
(We need to make what people get of of using RFB part of the base system: remote browsing and debugging).
I totally agree: the why use RFB part and the remote browsing/debugging replacement part. On the other hand, if people want to use some library, that should be possible.
The problem is this case is (again) that have a user (no offence Paul) of some external library that says 'I take a stock image + a library and it does not work in some specific case: pharo people help me please' while the maintainer of RFB is nowhere to be seen or heard of, let alone that he would be willing to take responsibility for how his/her software runs on recent Pharo image/vm/platform combinations - it _is_ a lot of work to maintain open source software.
I looked a little bit at the RFB code: it is pretty OK AFAIKT, but it does hackery stuff with networking. And Paul's problem only occurs if you save an image with RFB connections open on Linux on a specific VM. It will require dedication to debug this..
I agree what you said in general. But my gut tells me that it isn't RFBs fault triggering the problem. I had the scenario "save image with open RFB connection" in mind. If you have a linux server and debugging stuff this is just the case you use. I did examine that. I started the image with a script that 1 minute later did save and quit. So there was an open RFB server socket listening but no connect. Doing a http request that triggers a database lookup (zinc and dbxtalk) within that minute the image goes into 100% CPU usage on reopening.
So I wouldn't be so sure it is RFB.
Yeah, I know, but Paul case was just with a stock image/vm + RFB and it was triggered by the image save. Like I said, these things are hard.
yes, but I cannot reproduce it. It is workign perfectly fine in my machine and my 2 virtual machines with windows and linux. I will like to know which vm version are you using. Esteban
Norbert
Sven
The other problem I had with Pharo 2 is the ever growing image size I reported here:
http://forum.world.st/development-image-memory-use-180MB-in-Pharo-2-vs-40MB-...
I understand this is due to some leaks involving morphs and announcers and things that are fixed in pharo 3 but not pharo 2.
We are in the process of fixing them, but have not fixed all yet. I always thought that we would back port when we have fixed the problem completely in 3.0
Marcus
On 09/04/2013 02:44 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
I will like to know which vm version are you using.
Esteban
the one thats packaged with the one-clicks 3.9-7 #1 Wed Mar 13 18:22:44 CET 2013 gcc 4.4.3 NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-EstebanLorenzano.18 uuid: a53445f9-c0c0-4015-97a3-be7db8d9ed6b Mar 13 2013 NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-EstebanLorenzano.18 uuid: a53445f9-c0c0-4015-97a3-be7db8d9ed6b Mar 13 2013 git://gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: 412abef33cbed05cf1d75329e451d71c0c6aa5a7 Date: 2013-03-13 17:48:50 +0100 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> Jenkins build #14535 Linux linux-ubuntu-10 2.6.32-38-server #83-Ubuntu SMP Wed Jan 4 11:26:59 UTC 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux plugin path: /home/paul/pharo/pharo2.0/bin [default: /home/paul/pharo/pharo2.0/bin/]
On 09/04/2013 12:14 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
I totally agree: the why use RFB part and the remote browsing/debugging replacement part. On the other hand, if people want to use some library, that should be possible.
The problem is this case is (again) that have a user (no offence Paul) of some external library that says 'I take a stock image + a library and it does not work in some specific case: pharo people help me please' while the maintainer of RFB is nowhere to be seen or heard of, let alone that he would be willing to take responsibility for how his/her software runs on recent Pharo image/vm/platform combinations - it _is_ a lot of work to maintain open source software.
I looked a little bit at the RFB code: it is pretty OK AFAIKT, but it does hackery stuff with networking. And Paul's problem only occurs if you save an image with RFB connections open on Linux on a specific VM. It will require dedication to debug this..
Sven
No offence taken. The RFB error happens without connections. It also happens on the Mac and XP using the VM's in those platforms' one-clicks from pharo-project.org in both Pharo 1.4 and Pharo 2. It does not happen using 1.4 and eliot's vm (2776). I've been using this VM for pharo 2 work: ~/pharo/pharo2.0$ ./pharo -version 3.9-7 #1 Wed Mar 13 18:22:44 CET 2013 gcc 4.4.3 NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-EstebanLorenzano.18 uuid: a53445f9-c0c0-4015-97a3-be7db8d9ed6b Mar 13 2013 NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-EstebanLorenzano.18 uuid: a53445f9-c0c0-4015-97a3-be7db8d9ed6b Mar 13 2013 git://gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: 412abef33cbed05cf1d75329e451d71c0c6aa5a7 Date: 2013-03-13 17:48:50 +0100 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> Jenkins build #14535 Linux linux-ubuntu-10 2.6.32-38-server #83-Ubuntu SMP Wed Jan 4 11:26:59 UTC 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux plugin path: /home/paul/pharo/pharo2.0/bin [default: /home/paul/pharo/pharo2.0/bin/] Often (many more times than emails I write) I blame Pharo or Linux (or some random JS library I'm using) for being broken and 99% of the time I come to find that its just some dumb code I wrote that's broken. In this instance because the image locks up and I can't use the alt+. (or cmd + .) to break out of it to diagnose the problem I don't know what to do other than report it.
On Sep 4, 2013, at 8:57 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/03/2013 12:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things.
Stef
Hi Stef,
For reporting the RFB issue I made a thread (http://forum.world.st/How-do-diagnose-image-locks-up-cpu-100-on-save-td47046...) and uploaded a Pharo 2 image to dropbox where if you execute this code:
RFBServer start Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
The image locks up using the 'pharo' VM and works fine using eliots vm. The uploaded image is Pharo-20619 with only RFB loaded.
I really do not like RFB⦠we do not use it at all in the daily development, yet it people load it for production environments.
For me, the system we use every day should be identical to the production environment, else it is very hard to get a stable system.
(We need to make what people get of of using RFB part of the base system: remote browsing and debugging).
I undertand what you want and why do you say that you do not like RFB... but we are still far from the real answer and also people will always load their own third part libraries and that should be possible. Of course, since they not part of the core libraries, we do not have to take responsibility of those packages (we cannot take responsibility for all packages around)... but problem reported is a VM freeze, and that is of interest for us, so I still will take a look. Also, as I said... I have RFB running in 2.0 so it shouldn't have problems.
The other problem I had with Pharo 2 is the ever growing image size I reported here:
http://forum.world.st/development-image-memory-use-180MB-in-Pharo-2-vs-40MB-...
I understand this is due to some leaks involving morphs and announcers and things that are fixed in pharo 3 but not pharo 2.
We are in the process of fixing them, but have not fixed all yet. I always thought that we would back port when we have fixed the problem completely in 3.0
I'm not sure what we are seeing in pharo3 is the same problem reported in pharo2. Of course if it is, we will backport. But "inflation" problem in ph3 is very consistent and repeatable, the problem reported in ph2... well, I never seen it before, and we have just one report (and I assume that we have more than one hundred production projects with that version). So is likely something different (also some of the detected leaks are due to changes in ph3, not present in the older version). Esteban
Marcus
On Sep 4, 2013, at 9:55 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
We are in the process of fixing them, but have not fixed all yet. I always thought that we would back port when we have fixed the problem completely in 3.0
I'm not sure what we are seeing in pharo3 is the same problem reported in pharo2. Of course if it is, we will backport. But "inflation" problem in ph3 is very consistent and repeatable, the problem reported in ph2... well, I never seen it before, and we have just one report (and I assume that we have more than one hundred production projects with that version). So is likely something different (also some of the detected leaks are due to changes in ph3, not present in the older version).
Yes, the problem in Pharo2 seems to be related purely to morph extensions hanging around. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11290/There-are-far-more-instances-of-Morp... (yes, I should have added a parent case for "back port to 2.0"). Marcus
On 09/04/2013 12:54 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
I'm not sure what we are seeing in pharo3 is the same problem reported in pharo2. Of course if it is, we will backport. But "inflation" problem in ph3 is very consistent and repeatable, the problem reported in ph2... well, I never seen it before, and we have just one report (and I assume that we have more than one hundred production projects with that version). So is likely something different (also some of the detected leaks are due to changes in ph3, not present in the older version).
Esteban
heres two more reports about image size in another thread (Phil & Mariano): http://forum.world.st/Large-images-reasons-WAS-Re-Pharo-2-0-with-Seaside-DBX...
phil was working with 3.0 (afaik) mariano was having problems with flushing monticello caches. I think it was not the same. Esteban On Sep 4, 2013, at 5:32 PM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/04/2013 12:54 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
I'm not sure what we are seeing in pharo3 is the same problem reported in pharo2. Of course if it is, we will backport. But "inflation" problem in ph3 is very consistent and repeatable, the problem reported in ph2... well, I never seen it before, and we have just one report (and I assume that we have more than one hundred production projects with that version). So is likely something different (also some of the detected leaks are due to changes in ph3, not present in the older version).
Esteban
heres two more reports about image size in another thread (Phil & Mariano):
http://forum.world.st/Large-images-reasons-WAS-Re-Pharo-2-0-with-Seaside-DBX...
I was using 2.0 --- Philippe Back Dramatic Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - http://spamcast.libsyn.com Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value Added Reseller On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>wrote:
phil was working with 3.0 (afaik) mariano was having problems with flushing monticello caches.
I think it was not the same.
Esteban
On Sep 4, 2013, at 5:32 PM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/04/2013 12:54 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
I'm not sure what we are seeing in pharo3 is the same problem reported in pharo2. Of course if it is, we will backport. But "inflation" problem in ph3 is very consistent and repeatable, the problem reported in ph2... well, I never seen it before, and we have just one report (and I assume that we have more than one hundred production projects with that version). So is likely something different (also some of the detected leaks are due to changes in ph3, not present in the older version).
Esteban
heres two more reports about image size in another thread (Phil & Mariano):
http://forum.world.st/Large-images-reasons-WAS-Re-Pharo-2-0-with-Seaside-DBX...
Hi guys, I am having this problem and it is very very easy to reproduce for me. And it is in Mac, not Linux. I took a latest Pharo 2.0 image Latest update: #20619, and a Mac VM of Mar 13 2013. Open a workspace and evaluate: Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'RFB'; configuration; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRFB) load. (Smalltalk at: #RFBServer) start. Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false And it will freeze. If I save the image with the RFBServer running, my image freezes. If the server is stopped while saving, there is no problem. The hung seems to be AFTER the image save itself, because if I kill the process and start again, the image was saved. Also...if you do SAVE AND QUITE, it has NO PROBLEM. If I do Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: true. the image is saved and when I open it back, it is OK. On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>wrote:
On Sep 4, 2013, at 6:30 PM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
I was using 2.0
Yes, this is what I understood from the original report.
Marcus
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
On Sep 24, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys,
I am having this problem and it is very very easy to reproduce for me. And it is in Mac, not Linux. I took a latest Pharo 2.0 image Latest update: #20619, and a Mac VM of Mar 13 2013. Open a workspace and evaluate:
Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'RFB'; configuration; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRFB) load. (Smalltalk at: #RFBServer) start. Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
And it will freeze. If I save the image with the RFBServer running, my image freezes. If the server is stopped while saving, there is no problem. The hung seems to be AFTER the image save itself, because if I kill the process and start again, the image was saved. Also...if you do SAVE AND QUITE, it has NO PROBLEM. If I do Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: true. the image is saved and when I open it back, it is OK.
We need to really re-think if it is a good idea to deploy systems with code that is not part of the development cycle of Pharo. (read: what people get out of RFB needs to be part of the system itself) Marcus
What do people use RFB for? A remote interactive REPL could be useful too. Regards, Esteban A. Maringolo 2013/9/24 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>
On Sep 24, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys,
I am having this problem and it is very very easy to reproduce for me. And it is in Mac, not Linux. I took a latest Pharo 2.0 image Latest update: #20619, and a Mac VM of Mar 13 2013. Open a workspace and evaluate:
Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'RFB'; configuration; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRFB) load. (Smalltalk at: #RFBServer) start. Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
And it will freeze. If I save the image with the RFBServer running, my image freezes. If the server is stopped while saving, there is no problem. The hung seems to be AFTER the image save itself, because if I kill the process and start again, the image was saved. Also...if you do SAVE AND QUITE, it has NO PROBLEM. If I do Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: true. the image is saved and when I open it back, it is OK.
We need to really re-think if it is a good idea to deploy systems with code that is not part of the development cycle of Pharo. (read: what people get out of RFB needs to be part of the system itself)
Marcus
I use it for remotely deployed images. Whenever a debugger opens I get an email, connect to the image and examine the problem, fix it and done. Nothing beats the debugger. But yes a repl would be useful to for different things. Norbert Am 25.09.2013 um 03:14 schrieb "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo@gmail.com>:
What do people use RFB for?
A remote interactive REPL could be useful too.
Regards,
Esteban A. Maringolo
2013/9/24 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>
On Sep 24, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys,
I am having this problem and it is very very easy to reproduce for me. And it is in Mac, not Linux. I took a latest Pharo 2.0 image Latest update: #20619, and a Mac VM of Mar 13 2013. Open a workspace and evaluate:
Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'RFB'; configuration; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRFB) load. (Smalltalk at: #RFBServer) start. Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
And it will freeze. If I save the image with the RFBServer running, my image freezes. If the server is stopped while saving, there is no problem. The hung seems to be AFTER the image save itself, because if I kill the process and start again, the image was saved. Also...if you do SAVE AND QUITE, it has NO PROBLEM. If I do Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: true. the image is saved and when I open it back, it is OK.
We need to really re-think if it is a good idea to deploy systems with code that is not part of the development cycle of Pharo. (read: what people get out of RFB needs to be part of the system itself)
Marcus
On Sep 25, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
I use it for remotely deployed images. Whenever a debugger opens I get an email, connect to the image and examine the problem, fix it and done. Nothing beats the debugger.
Yes, we need remote debugging + Browsing...
But yes a repl would be useful to for different things.
Norbert
Am 25.09.2013 um 03:14 schrieb "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo@gmail.com>:
What do people use RFB for?
A remote interactive REPL could be useful too.
Regards,
Esteban A. Maringolo
2013/9/24 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>
On Sep 24, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys,
I am having this problem and it is very very easy to reproduce for me. And it is in Mac, not Linux. I took a latest Pharo 2.0 image Latest update: #20619, and a Mac VM of Mar 13 2013. Open a workspace and evaluate:
Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'RFB'; configuration; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRFB) load. (Smalltalk at: #RFBServer) start. Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
And it will freeze. If I save the image with the RFBServer running, my image freezes. If the server is stopped while saving, there is no problem. The hung seems to be AFTER the image save itself, because if I kill the process and start again, the image was saved. Also...if you do SAVE AND QUITE, it has NO PROBLEM. If I do Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: true. the image is saved and when I open it back, it is OK.
We need to really re-think if it is a good idea to deploy systems with code that is not part of the development cycle of Pharo. (read: what people get out of RFB needs to be part of the system itself)
Marcus
Am 25.09.2013 um 09:55 schrieb Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>:
On Sep 25, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
I use it for remotely deployed images. Whenever a debugger opens I get an email, connect to the image and examine the problem, fix it and done. Nothing beats the debugger.
Yes, we need remote debugging + Browsing...
Amen! Norbert
But yes a repl would be useful to for different things.
Norbert
Am 25.09.2013 um 03:14 schrieb "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo@gmail.com>:
What do people use RFB for?
A remote interactive REPL could be useful too.
Regards,
Esteban A. Maringolo
2013/9/24 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>
On Sep 24, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys,
I am having this problem and it is very very easy to reproduce for me. And it is in Mac, not Linux. I took a latest Pharo 2.0 image Latest update: #20619, and a Mac VM of Mar 13 2013. Open a workspace and evaluate:
Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'RFB'; configuration; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRFB) load. (Smalltalk at: #RFBServer) start. Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
And it will freeze. If I save the image with the RFBServer running, my image freezes. If the server is stopped while saving, there is no problem. The hung seems to be AFTER the image save itself, because if I kill the process and start again, the image was saved. Also...if you do SAVE AND QUITE, it has NO PROBLEM. If I do Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: true. the image is saved and when I open it back, it is OK.
We need to really re-think if it is a good idea to deploy systems with code that is not part of the development cycle of Pharo. (read: what people get out of RFB needs to be part of the system itself)
Marcus
Hi Do you try tODE? (I'm not yet but I really want it) 2013/9/25 Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name>
Am 25.09.2013 um 09:55 schrieb Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>:
On Sep 25, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
I use it for remotely deployed images. Whenever a debugger opens I get an email, connect to the image and examine the problem, fix it and done. Nothing beats the debugger.
Yes, we need remote debugging + Browsing...
Amen!
Norbert
But yes a repl would be useful to for different things.
Norbert
Am 25.09.2013 um 03:14 schrieb "Esteban A. Maringolo" < emaringolo@gmail.com>:
What do people use RFB for?
A remote interactive REPL could be useful too.
Regards,
Esteban A. Maringolo
2013/9/24 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>
On Sep 24, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys,
I am having this problem and it is very very easy to reproduce for me. And it is in Mac, not Linux. I took a latest Pharo 2.0 image Latest update: #20619, and a Mac VM of Mar 13 2013. Open a workspace and evaluate:
Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'PharoExtras' project: 'RFB'; configuration; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRFB) load. (Smalltalk at: #RFBServer) start. Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
And it will freeze. If I save the image with the RFBServer running, my image freezes. If the server is stopped while saving, there is no problem. The hung seems to be AFTER the image save itself, because if I kill the process and start again, the image was saved. Also...if you do SAVE AND QUITE, it has NO PROBLEM. If I do Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: true. the image is saved and when I open it back, it is OK.
We need to really re-think if it is a good idea to deploy systems with code that is not part of the development cycle of Pharo. (read: what people get out of RFB needs to be part of the system itself)
Marcus
mmmmmm DBXTalk and image save sounded a bell... When we developed OpenDBXDriver, we idea was to make it as simple as possible for the final user. One thing we did was to automatically disconnect all opened connections at system shutdown...so that not to let connections open in the DB. Now I realized that we have this: DBXConnection class >> shutDown self allInstancesDo: [:each | each shutDown] but it should actually be DBXConnection class >> shutDown: quitting quitting ifTrue: [ self allInstancesDo: [:each | each shutDown] I fixed this some time ago (OpenDBXDriver-MarianoMartinezPeck.38) Maybe this could be related? Paul are you also using DBXTalk just by chance in that image? Cheers, On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>wrote:
phil was working with 3.0 (afaik) mariano was having problems with flushing monticello caches.
I think it was not the same.
Esteban
On Sep 4, 2013, at 5:32 PM, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic@gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/04/2013 12:54 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
I'm not sure what we are seeing in pharo3 is the same problem reported in pharo2. Of course if it is, we will backport. But "inflation" problem in ph3 is very consistent and repeatable, the problem reported in ph2... well, I never seen it before, and we have just one report (and I assume that we have more than one hundred production projects with that version). So is likely something different (also some of the detected leaks are due to changes in ph3, not present in the older version).
Esteban
heres two more reports about image size in another thread (Phil & Mariano):
http://forum.world.st/Large-images-reasons-WAS-Re-Pharo-2-0-with-Seaside-DBX...
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
On 09/04/2013 09:31 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Paul are you also using DBXTalk just by chance in that image?
Cheers,
No I haven't used DBXTalk yet.
Hi Stef,
For reporting the RFB issue I made a thread (http://forum.world.st/How-do-diagnose-image-locks-up-cpu-100-on-save-td47046...) and uploaded a Pharo 2 image to dropbox where if you execute this code:
RFBServer start Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false
The image locks up using the 'pharo' VM and works fine using eliots vm. The uploaded image is Pharo-20619 with only RFB loaded.
Ok I remember. We will have a look.
The other problem I had with Pharo 2 is the ever growing image size I reported here:
http://forum.world.st/development-image-memory-use-180MB-in-Pharo-2-vs-40MB-...
Ok.
I understand this is due to some leaks involving morphs and announcers and things that are fixed in pharo 3 but not pharo 2.
Yes igor and esteban spent some times and they are probably some left. ( sadly :) doing is more difficult than doing nothing)
I have not gotten the impression that that fix will be backported, and even if it will it hasn't been yet so because of that and the RFB issue above I can't use Pharo 2 right now.
I understand. Thanks for the email.
Hope this helps and thanks for following up
Yes!
Paul
OK. I think I am having the same issue here. I am using Pharo2.0 Latest update: #20619, and a Mac VM of Mar 13 2013. I have a SmalltalkHub image running with RFB. If I save the image with the RFBServer running, my image freezes. If the server is stopped while saving, there is no problem. The hung seems to be AFTER the image save itself, because if I kill the process and start again, the image was saved. Does somebody remember if this was solve or not? if not, I will try to debug a bit. On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>wrote:
Hi Paul2
Paul Wilke wrote
Hi, we have a similar problem. Which VM should one use? We had the StackVM in productive use but now after using Pharo 2.0 we have this primitive error and a stuck image. We found one cause in a the netname resolver.
Can you explain what is the netname resolver problem.
I would greatly appreciate an info about which vm exactly to use or how
to
further diagnose this problem. Kind regards, Paul
I ended up reverting back to Pharo 1.4 and don't have plans to use Pharo 2 in production.
If you do not give us more information we will never be able to fix it. And may be 3.0 will still have the problem and you will start using system that is 3 year old. I can understand that you get in a situation where you cannot do otherwise but do not expect us to fix magically things.
Stef
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/RFB-on-2-0-linux-semaphore-primitive-failed-tp4701741p... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
participants (11)
-
Denis Kudriashov -
Esteban A. Maringolo -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Marcus Denker -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Norbert Hartl -
Paul DeBruicker -
phil＠highoctane.be -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Sven Van Caekenberghe -
Sven Van Caekenberghe