Mars will work on Ubuntu and its derivatives when Hell freezes over. I don't think anyone even looks a the Issues log. Sound has never worked on Linux. You used to be able to get it to work by copying files from a Squeak installation, but that's in the past now as far as I know. There's an article here on how to get sound working on Linux - https://thepharo.dev/2020/11/17/how-to-play-sound-in-pharo/ It didn't work for me - I wasn't surprised. The Linux desktop has the worst Pharo support. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Mars will work on Ubuntu and its derivatives when Hell freezes over. I don't think anyone even looks a the Issues log.

We are in crush mode.

Sound has never worked on Linux. You used to be able to get it to work by copying files from a Squeak installation, but that's in the past now as far as I know.

There's an article here on how to get sound working on Linux - https://thepharo.dev/2020/11/17/how-to-play-sound-in-pharo/

It didn't work for me - I wasn't surprised.

Can you let us know what is the problem? If you do not report it how can we do something?

The Linux desktop has the worst Pharo support.

Exteban is working daily on a linux machine now the problem is that there is no such a thing as a linux machine. We have distributions and many of them with plenty of nice little differences that as a user you expect to work but takes from us a lot of time. For example different Clib. So Pablo and guille are working on making that the VM can take what is present making that we can deploy one VM as full standalone and this for a lot of different flavor.

-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

On 9 Dec 2020, at 15:30, yvan Godin <yvan.godin@gmail.com> wrote:

in reality posted my answer on a wrong list probably totally new to Pharo and Smaltalk I wanted just try so this is not important

No there is no problem. Sound is really not good :). There is no problem with that. Now we are concern with linux support and as you can see in the attached file there is no a single OS but several and this is a large task because in addition we have the new architecture coming.

I wanted to test Gtk-binding. <https://github.com/pharo-spec/gtk-bindings> because I am interested by Gtk but not for specific project so no problem I can wait.

Esteban is making it work and some companies too but I do not think that this is ready for public consumption.

Load fine but the demo code provided on github hard crash the image with big crash dump ``` GtkApplication ensureRunning. GtkRunLoop defer: [ GtkWindow new title: 'Gtk3 Window'; add: (GtkBox newVertical packStart: (GtkLabel newLabel: 'Hello!'); yourself); showAll ] ```

I will report this to esteban

for the sound I have try to add sdl2 and alsa lib and some libsound but without success. One more time this is not essential but sad. Very long time ago I have try Squeak and sound was working.

Yes but all the library on the C level are obsolete. Can you post what you did so that we can ask ronie to see what he did for the sound.

-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Hi Ivan, just to complement Esteban. When there is a process crash, it usually writes a crash dump file in the working directory. Could you share yours? The crash dump file will have information about the stack and state at the moment of the crash. It will also be useful to know what linux version you are on, and what specific version of gtk you have installed. All these could help in reproducing the problem and ultimately fix it. Cheers, Guille El mié., 9 dic. 2020 17:49, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> escribió:

Here is the answer of esteban

Hi,

For some reason, it looks like I am no longer part of that list (how weird is that?), and I cannot re-subscribe me either (I asked Marcus to see what happens). Anyway, can you be be more explicit, because I just tested in an Ubuntu 20.04 and it works fine (also, I use a Manjaro everyday and it works too).

Esteban

S

On 9 Dec 2020, at 15:30, yvan Godin <yvan.godin@gmail.com> wrote:

in reality posted my answer on a wrong list probably totally new to Pharo and Smaltalk I wanted just try so this is not important

I wanted to test Gtk-binding. <https://github.com/pharo-spec/gtk-bindings>

because I am interested by Gtk but not for specific project so no problem I can wait.

Load fine but the demo code provided on github hard crash the image with big crash dump ``` GtkApplication ensureRunning. GtkRunLoop defer: [ GtkWindow new title: 'Gtk3 Window'; add: (GtkBox newVertical packStart: (GtkLabel newLabel: 'Hello!'); yourself); showAll ] ```

for the sound I have try to add sdl2 and alsa lib and some libsound but without success. One more time this is not essential but sad. Very long time ago I have try Squeak and sound was working.

-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

The Mars project page says use this image and vm: curl https://get.pharo.org/64/90+vmHeadlessLatest | bash To upload the crash.dmp file to the issue log you need to rename it to crash.txt first. Good luck. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

On 10 Dec 2020, at 14:34, yvan Godin <yvan.godin@gmail.com> wrote:

hello

I have re installed an strictly follow everything as described in gtk-bind <https://github.com/pharo-spec/gtk-bindings> / (I don't care of Mars but interested by Spec2 and/or Gtk)/

the run of demo hard crash as previously

I have tried to upload the file here but no sure to well understand how this list work crash.txt <http://forum.world.st/file/t372931/crash.txt>

Thanks for the report.

thanks everybody

/by the side a curious behavior to this mailing list requiring again to me to subscribe again /

Yes this is strange. Esteban was also removed and we do not know why.

-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

On 11 Dec 2020, at 09:01, yvan Godin <yvan.godin@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello May be you shouldn't spend time on that because I have successfully tested Gtk-bind on a more recent laptop /(Intel© Core™ i7 16GoRam versus Pentium 4Go )/ with same Ubuntu 19 sorry for inconvenience and thanks everybody

Yvan there is no problem. We prefer that you report a non bug that you do not report a bug. And I do like to hear that we neglect linux because this is not the case. Now there is one version of Mac at the time (plus three old versions) but we do not have this situation for the thing called “linux” S.

-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

It depends how old. We cannot do magic. In particular, if more people would help fixing simple things in Pharo we would then have the time for more boring and challenging issues. Because in my personal case, I’m not paid to develop and lead Pharo dev. My own carrer and CV do not depend on Pharo and in fact I could publish much more and look much smarter without it. S.

But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's still a bug, isn't it?

-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

On 12 Dec 2020, at 11:05, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:

Just to chip in here - the work demonstrated on Pharo development is inspirational. Rather than throwing everything away, it shows the alternative - incrementally improving a running platform - and practicing what we preach in industry by refactoring a large elderly code base bit by bit - it's remarkable.

While its true we don’t always immediately get things fixed that we might personally want, but then again we are relying on the free personal time of others. But collectively, the most important things do get fixed/improved, and if there is something that really bothers you, then the over arching lesson is that you have to roll up your sleaves and try and fix it yourself and in showing willingness you normally find that others will help you.

So Steph et al, I am glad that you love this platform (and have for many years), but more startlingly - i heard you all talk about a vision of improvements back in Lugano many years ago… and gosh we are seeing those improvements roll out year after year. Even more - we are slowly getting the kind of development/experiment workbench platform that good developers should have. Its being invented under our eyes, and that is exciting.

:)

So I hope you dont feel dispondent - I think history viewed over a longer period will actually show a more positive picture.

I’m pretty sure it will :) Because we know where we want to go and this is nice :) Thanks a lot tim. And we will continue :)

Tim

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020, at 9:20 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

...

It depends how old. We cannot do magic. In particular, if more people would help fixing simple things in Pharo we would then have the time for more boring and challenging issues. Because in my personal case, I’m not paid to develop and lead Pharo dev. My own carrer and CV do not depend on Pharo and in fact I could publish much more and look much smarter without it.

S.

...

But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's still a bug, isn't it?

-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html>

-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/> / http://www.pharo.org <http://www.pharo.org/> 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

tx offray Lua is an inspiration from that perspective. Now we play the game because publishing is also a nice way to understand what we are doing and because this is important to play the game else we would be considered as losers. S.

On 12 Dec 2020, at 19:20, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray.luna@mutabit.com> wrote:

Hi,

Just to add a little bit to Tim's remark, I'm pretty happy that Pharo academicians, starting with Stéphane, value more making a real difference in the world, via delivering working and improving software, that talking about the theoretical possible changes when paper's "conclusions further possibilities and studies" will be applied, developed and widely understood (it's also a pretty uncommon path followed by Lua academician's at Rio University.)

In a world of mostly self-serving academia trapped in the game of papers publishing and metrics only valuable inside academia, is good to have academicians breaking the novelty fetiche spell and preferring _being_ smarter and empathic with continuous delivery, improvements and broad community building, instead just _looking_ smarter, via papers publishing and ego inflation inside the Ivory Tower.

Thanks again Stephan and other Pharo academicians to show us a glimpse of what academia could be when priorities are put in proper places.

Offray

On 12/12/20 5:05 a. m., Tim Mackinnon wrote:

...

Just to chip in here - the work demonstrated on Pharo development is inspirational. Rather than throwing everything away, it shows the alternative - incrementally improving a running platform - and practicing what we preach in industry by refactoring a large elderly code base bit by bit - it's remarkable.

While its true we don’t always immediately get things fixed that we might personally want, but then again we are relying on the free personal time of others. But collectively, the most important things do get fixed/improved, and if there is something that really bothers you, then the over arching lesson is that you have to roll up your sleaves and try and fix it yourself and in showing willingness you normally find that others will help you.

So Steph et al, I am glad that you love this platform (and have for many years), but more startlingly - i heard you all talk about a vision of improvements back in Lugano many years ago… and gosh we are seeing those improvements roll out year after year. Even more - we are slowly getting the kind of development/experiment workbench platform that good developers should have. Its being invented under our eyes, and that is exciting.

So I hope you dont feel dispondent - I think history viewed over a longer period will actually show a more positive picture.

Tim

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020, at 9:20 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

...

It depends how old. We cannot do magic. In particular, if more people would help fixing simple things in Pharo we would then have the time for more boring and challenging issues. Because in my personal case, I’m not paid to develop and lead Pharo dev. My own carrer and CV do not depend on Pharo and in fact I could publish much more and look much smarter without it.

S.

...

But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's still a bug, isn't it?

-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html>

-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/> / http://www.pharo.org <http://www.pharo.org/> 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

On 12 Dec 2020, at 17:08, Santiago Bragagnolo <santiagobragagnolo@gmail.com> wrote:

It is a bug when you have a lot of budget. Luckily we have the monthly sprints :). Participants are always more than welcome. You can join and participate to fix these things the last friday of each month! I can sit with you and pair program. I am not sure if this month we have sprint, since it is by the christmas dates probably. Marcus, do we have sprint in december?

yes next friday :)

Anyway, as soon as I know i'll let you know. If it is not this this month it can be in january! It seems far but time pass really fast :).

Looking forward,

Santiago

El vie, 11 dic 2020 a las 16:05, kmo (<voxkmp@gmail.com <mailto:voxkmp@gmail.com>>) escribió: But if it doesn't work on older machines (if that is the case) then that's still a bug, isn't it?

-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html>

-------------------------------------------- Stéphane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Aurore Dalle FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Esteban is trying to understand why he cannot register to this mailing-list and he asked me to past the following so I do it. "first, as Stef says we cannot do magic and SpecGtk relies on Gtk3. More specific, it relies in a specific version of Gtk3, in this case you need Gtk 3.24 or newer. if you have an older linux version, is likely you also have an older Gtk3 version... hence the crash. this is not a bug but I agree we need to add a version validation to not crash but instead show a message” Stef

I am using OpenSUSE Leap and the above code for "Hello" using GTK-binding works for me. On Wednesday, December 9, 2020, 8:30:29 AM CST, yvan Godin <yvan.godin@gmail.com> wrote: in reality posted my answer on a wrong list probably    totally new to Pharo and Smaltalk I wanted just try so this is not important      I wanted to test  Gtk-binding. <https://github.com/pharo-spec/gtk-bindings>  because I am interested by Gtk but not for specific project so no problem I can wait.    Load fine but the demo code provided on github  hard crash the image with big crash dump ```        GtkApplication ensureRunning.     GtkRunLoop defer: [         GtkWindow new         title: 'Gtk3 Window';         add: (GtkBox newVertical             packStart: (GtkLabel newLabel: 'Hello!');             yourself);         showAll ] ``` for the sound I have try to add sdl2 and alsa lib and some libsound but without success. One more time this is not essential but sad. Very long time ago I have try Squeak and sound was working. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html