In Pharo 7 - are the Browsers in any particular order in the new menu?
Hi - in the new menu system (which I kind of like, and certainly see the value for new user, but worry about the loss of screen space for advanced users) - is the order of browsers specified for any particular reason? I ask, because the 2 main one System and Playground should both be at the top (in my opinion) but Iâm wondering if its in some specific order? Tim
Le 21/06/2018 à 23:18, Tim Mackinnon a écrit :
Hi
Hi, - in the new menu system (which I kind of like, and certainly see the value for new user, but worry about the loss of screen space for advanced users) There is a setting to disable it if needed ;) - is the order of browsers specified for any particular reason?
I ask, because the 2 main one System and Playground should both be at the top (in my opinion) but Iâm wondering if its in some specific order?
By top you mean at the root of the menu or at the top of the Tool submenu? If you mean at the root of the menu, then no for the menubar because it is a menubar and not a toolbar. But, it would be cool to get it back at the root of the WorldMenu but it need work to be able to define two different locations for menubar and world menu. If you mean at the top of the Tools submenu, then yes. The fact that Iceberg is before the playground is an error I think.
Tim
-- Cyril Ferlicot https://ferlicot.fr
Hi Cyril (nice work on the menu by the way) - I was thinking in the Tools menu they should both be at the top. For the world menu - I think maybe the consistency is better - and for the advanced user they can learnt he keyboard shortcuts? Iâll put a bug for this. Tim
On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:42, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 21/06/2018 à 23:18, Tim Mackinnon a écrit :
Hi
Hi,
- in the new menu system (which I kind of like, and certainly see the value for new user, but worry about the loss of screen space for advanced users)
There is a setting to disable it if needed ;)
- is the order of browsers specified for any particular reason?
I ask, because the 2 main one System and Playground should both be at the top (in my opinion) but Iâm wondering if its in some specific order?
By top you mean at the root of the menu or at the top of the Tool submenu?
If you mean at the root of the menu, then no for the menubar because it is a menubar and not a toolbar. But, it would be cool to get it back at the root of the WorldMenu but it need work to be able to define two different locations for menubar and world menu.
If you mean at the top of the Tools submenu, then yes. The fact that Iceberg is before the playground is an error I think.
Tim
-- Cyril Ferlicot https://ferlicot.fr
On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:42, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 21/06/2018 à 23:18, Tim Mackinnon a écrit :
Hi
Hi,
- is the order of browsers specified for any particular reason?
I ask, because the 2 main one System and Playground should both be at
the top (in my opinion) but Iâm wondering if its in some specific order?
By top you mean at the root of the menu or at the top of the Tool submenu?
If you mean at the root of the menu, then no for the menubar because it is a menubar and not a toolbar. But, it would be cool to get it back at the root of the WorldMenu but it need work to be able to define two different locations for menubar and world menu.
If you mean at the top of the Tools submenu, then yes. The fact that Iceberg is before the playground is an error I think.
On 22 June 2018 at 06:03, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:
Hi Cyril (nice work on the menu by the way) - I was thinking in the Tools menu they should both be at the top. For the world menu - I think maybe the consistency is better - and for the advanced user they can learnt he keyboard shortcuts?
I've been meaning to provide some feedback on this, but been giving myself time to adapt first. Generally I like the direction this is heading, but I find I'm really missing the World-Menu > Save item. When I'm playing with deep parts of the system where mistakes are likely to break the Image, I use this often. Actually its not awkward so much that its an extra level down, but that "Save" is not at the top of its submenu. Now as this arrangement is new, and I guess will become locked in when Pharo 7 is released (at the risk of bike shedding) can we experiment a bit with the arrangement. I am finding that to open Browser and Playground I often accidentally go to "Pharo" item first, then correct myself to find them under "Tools". I'm not sure if I'm expecting Browser to be under the first menu, or expecting them under "Pharo". I think maybe the latter. For me the tools *are* Pharo. So... * Maybe rename the current "Pharo" to "File"? Its a common paradigm in many application that the first top-level item is "File" with save/quit/etc. And after, "saving" is the act of freezing the Image into a file. * Rename current "Tools" to "Pharo" as the second top-level item. Here is an experiment for anyone to try... WorldState-class >> pharoItemsOn: aBuilder (aBuilder item: #Pharo) + label: 'File'; - icon: ((self iconNamed: #pharo) scaledToSize: 20 @ 20); + icon: ((self iconNamed: #smallOpen) scaledToSize: 15 @ 15); (aBuilder item: #Save) + order: 1 (aBuilder item: #'Save as...') + order: 2 (aBuilder item: #saveAndQuit) + order: 2 ; withSeparatorAfter (aBuilder item: #Quit) + order: 9 AbstractTool-class >> menuCommandOn: + label: 'Pharo'; + icon: ((self iconNamed: #pharo) scaledToSize: 20 @ 20); SettingsBrowser-class >> menuCommandOn: + order: 5 cheers -ben P.S. Other ideas... Place the following together as separated pairs since they are similar function * Iceberg and Monticello * Spotter and Finder
On 22 June 2018 at 10:25, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:42, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 21/06/2018 à 23:18, Tim Mackinnon a écrit :
Hi
Hi,
- is the order of browsers specified for any particular reason?
I ask, because the 2 main one System and Playground should both be at
the top (in my opinion) but Iâm wondering if its in some specific order?
By top you mean at the root of the menu or at the top of the Tool submenu?
If you mean at the root of the menu, then no for the menubar because it is a menubar and not a toolbar. But, it would be cool to get it back at the root of the WorldMenu but it need work to be able to define two different locations for menubar and world menu.
If you mean at the top of the Tools submenu, then yes. The fact that Iceberg is before the playground is an error I think.
On 22 June 2018 at 06:03, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:
Hi Cyril (nice work on the menu by the way) - I was thinking in the Tools menu they should both be at the top. For the world menu - I think maybe the consistency is better - and for the advanced user they can learnt he keyboard shortcuts?
I've been meaning to provide some feedback on this, but been giving myself time to adapt first.
Generally I like the direction this is heading, but I find I'm really missing the World-Menu > Save item. When I'm playing with deep parts of the system where mistakes are likely to break the Image, I use this often. Actually its not awkward so much that its an extra level down, but that "Save" is not at the top of its submenu.
Now as this arrangement is new, and I guess will become locked in when Pharo 7 is released (at the risk of bike shedding) can we experiment a bit with the arrangement. I am finding that to open Browser and Playground I often accidentally go to "Pharo" item first, then correct myself to find them under "Tools". I'm not sure if I'm expecting Browser to be under the first menu, or expecting them under "Pharo". I think maybe the latter. For me the tools *are* Pharo.
So... * Maybe rename the current "Pharo" to "File"? Its a common paradigm in many application that the first top-level item is "File" with save/quit/etc. And after, "saving" is the act of freezing the Image into a file. * Rename current "Tools" to "Pharo" as the second top-level item.
Here is an experiment for anyone to try...
WorldState-class >> pharoItemsOn: aBuilder (aBuilder item: #Pharo) + label: 'File'; - icon: ((self iconNamed: #pharo) scaledToSize: 20 @ 20); + icon: ((self iconNamed: #smallOpen) scaledToSize: 15 @ 15);
(aBuilder item: #Save) + order: 1
(aBuilder item: #'Save as...') + order: 2
(aBuilder item: #saveAndQuit) + order: 2 ; withSeparatorAfter
(aBuilder item: #Quit) + order: 9
AbstractTool-class >> menuCommandOn: + label: 'Pharo'; + icon: ((self iconNamed: #pharo) scaledToSize: 20 @ 20);
SettingsBrowser-class >> menuCommandOn: + order: 5
A slight variation on top of above... WorldState-class >> pharoItemsOn: aBuilder (aBuilder item: #Pharo) - label: 'File'; + label: 'Image'; cheers -ben
Iâve been thinking similar and was holding out to see if I might relearn the new layout - but I agree it needs tweaking a bit (not lots - just make it a bit more comfortable) Iâm pleased to see us trying to make it more approachable though. Tim Sent from my iPhone
On 22 Jun 2018, at 03:36, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
On 22 June 2018 at 10:25, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:42, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 21/06/2018 à 23:18, Tim Mackinnon a écrit :
Hi
Hi,
- is the order of browsers specified for any particular reason?
I ask, because the 2 main one System and Playground should both be at the top (in my opinion) but Iâm wondering if its in some specific order?
By top you mean at the root of the menu or at the top of the Tool submenu?
If you mean at the root of the menu, then no for the menubar because it is a menubar and not a toolbar. But, it would be cool to get it back at the root of the WorldMenu but it need work to be able to define two different locations for menubar and world menu.
If you mean at the top of the Tools submenu, then yes. The fact that Iceberg is before the playground is an error I think.
On 22 June 2018 at 06:03, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote: Hi Cyril (nice work on the menu by the way) - I was thinking in the Tools menu they should both be at the top. For the world menu - I think maybe the consistency is better - and for the advanced user they can learnt he keyboard shortcuts?
I've been meaning to provide some feedback on this, but been giving myself time to adapt first.
Generally I like the direction this is heading, but I find I'm really missing the World-Menu > Save item. When I'm playing with deep parts of the system where mistakes are likely to break the Image, I use this often. Actually its not awkward so much that its an extra level down, but that "Save" is not at the top of its submenu.
Now as this arrangement is new, and I guess will become locked in when Pharo 7 is released (at the risk of bike shedding) can we experiment a bit with the arrangement. I am finding that to open Browser and Playground I often accidentally go to "Pharo" item first, then correct myself to find them under "Tools". I'm not sure if I'm expecting Browser to be under the first menu, or expecting them under "Pharo". I think maybe the latter. For me the tools *are* Pharo.
So... * Maybe rename the current "Pharo" to "File"? Its a common paradigm in many application that the first top-level item is "File" with save/quit/etc. And after, "saving" is the act of freezing the Image into a file. * Rename current "Tools" to "Pharo" as the second top-level item.
Here is an experiment for anyone to try...
WorldState-class >> pharoItemsOn: aBuilder (aBuilder item: #Pharo) + label: 'File'; - icon: ((self iconNamed: #pharo) scaledToSize: 20 @ 20); + icon: ((self iconNamed: #smallOpen) scaledToSize: 15 @ 15);
(aBuilder item: #Save) + order: 1
(aBuilder item: #'Save as...') + order: 2
(aBuilder item: #saveAndQuit) + order: 2 ; withSeparatorAfter
(aBuilder item: #Quit) + order: 9
AbstractTool-class >> menuCommandOn: + label: 'Pharo'; + icon: ((self iconNamed: #pharo) scaledToSize: 20 @ 20);
SettingsBrowser-class >> menuCommandOn: + order: 5
A slight variation on top of above...
WorldState-class >> pharoItemsOn: aBuilder (aBuilder item: #Pharo) - label: 'File'; + label: 'Image';
cheers -ben
participants (3)
-
Ben Coman -
Cyril Ferlicot D. -
Tim Mackinnon