I am not willing to create an account there but Phil, I must say I share most things you wrote there. Just some small things I would add. 1: One must understand that Smalltalk is a live empty OS that one can modify with merely any rules or limitations. 2: One must be god if you can start implementing projects without reading the MSDN library or any other programming language documentation. 3: Oppose to VisualStudio you can actually add a close button for browsers according to you needs. Pharo does not prevent you from this. 4: Tutorial? This is a great introduction to get started. Try to understand most of all concepts and syntax of a different language in approx. 13 slides... 5: He learned how to execute code and does not know how to start an application,.... well this is a flaw. Does the Tutorial ask for too much genuity and should be extended by one sentence to clarify this? 6: Real tutorial, but maybe too complex for somebody who does already want to play with repositories, socket communication and debugging.... point him at http://zn.stfx.eu/zn/build-and-deploy-1st-webapp/ 7: Doesn't the Welcome page point at the Help Documentation? It does explain how to create "projects" doesn't it? 8: GUI looks old and is slow? +1 to him,... I also have a hard time to sell it, but at least I am aware how much there is currently done... 9: If he really wants to get an idea on the size and complexity of Smalltalk once could refer him to VASmalltalk and IBM's Programmers reference,.... 2 1/2 years later he will have worked though it have enough experience write his first proper lines of code and be a bad ass Smalltalker 5 years afterwards.... I saw Cuis Smalltalk last weekend,.... I thing Cuis and a little simpler might be the best introduction plattform to Smalltalk,... just raw Smalltalk and switch by switch one can turn on features like a repository, profiler, configurations, deployment,.... Just my 5cents Sebastian On 2015-04-29 11:11 PM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:

put some replies. maybe someone can add links to Kilon videos there.

Phil

Le 30 avr. 2015 04:50, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo@gmail.com <mailto:emaringolo@gmail.com>> a écrit :

I don't agree with most of the things mentioned, but I think its worth looking at to see if there is something to actually improve.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smalltalk/comments/32xwmr/my_experience_with_pharo_4...

Regards,

Esteban A. Maringolo

So he didn't find http://pharo.org/documentation ? It is the first hit if you search for 'Pharo Documentation' ! Of course, one on one mentoring is way better than any documentation for anything.

On 30 Apr 2015, at 13:40, Sergio Fedi <sergio.fedi@gmail.com> wrote:

Note: I haven't read the reddit link above)

I recently (2 weeks) begun working with a total neophite to St and there is a lack of proper Tutorial/Documentation to get you started doing something.

When I say that there is a lack, I mean that this person (who is well versed in looking up stuff on the internet) couldn't find proper material for getting started. (whether this material does not exist or exists but is difficult to find, I don t know)

​And it's not have been the first time this happened to me.

So far, my best (fluid, straightforward) experiences learning St has been when someone else taught me.

me. is easy (just change the sdk in configuration). the real problem is compatibility: there is still a lot of mac users using leopard there. Esteban ps: I didn’t tried with yosemite, but maverics was ok

On 30 Apr 2015, at 16:32, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:

There was a criticism about the VM build requiring OSX SDK 10.6 being +4 years old. https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm>

Has anyone built with a later SDK? cheers -ben

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 8:23 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu <mailto:sven@stfx.eu>> wrote: So he didn't find http://pharo.org/documentation <http://pharo.org/documentation> ?

It is the first hit if you search for 'Pharo Documentation' !

Of course, one on one mentoring is way better than any documentation for anything.

...

On 30 Apr 2015, at 13:40, Sergio Fedi <sergio.fedi@gmail.com <mailto:sergio.fedi@gmail.com>> wrote:

Note: I haven't read the reddit link above)

I recently (2 weeks) begun working with a total neophite to St and there is a lack of proper Tutorial/Documentation to get you started doing something.

When I say that there is a lack, I mean that this person (who is well versed in looking up stuff on the internet) couldn't find proper material for getting started. (whether this material does not exist or exists but is difficult to find, I don t know)

​And it's not have been the first time this happened to me.

So far, my best (fluid, straightforward) experiences learning St has been when someone else taught me.