i just want to make sure that i am thinking about this the seaside/smalltalk way.. i would like to build a 'has and belongs to many' relation where i can drill down on my data from either side. say i have a movie, and a theater. a movie can be shown in many theaters, and a theater can show many movies. i would want to be able to ask a theater what movies it's showing, or a movie which theaters it is showing in. my initial thought would be to create a 'showing' model, where it would have a movie and a theater attached.. then i could query showing for either movie or theater.. or, i could have a theaters Collection on movies and a movies Collection on on theaters, and contain that information in only two models.. any suggestions? thanks! -- ---- peace, sergio photographer, journalist, visionary http://www.ThoseOptimizeGuys.com http://www.CodingForHire.com http://www.coffee-black.com http://www.painlessfrugality.com http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 http://www.facebook.com/sergio101