[Pharo-project] New Issue Tracker
With the recent announcement of google code to shut down their public API I see a major functionality gone for our project. https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/IssueTrackerAPI I would like to extend the functionality of our monkey, so it will become more intelligent: - give code critics feedback - reject new code that doesn't meet our criteria in general (unclassified methods / uncommented classes) - failing tests are serialized and attached to the issue - image with the changes integrated are attached to the issue ... you get the picture. All this stuff is impossible to achieve if there is no scriptable API available. By dropping that, google code becomes a silly toy with no further use to me. Requirements ------------ So, we have to come up with a new issue tracker by june with the following requirements: - dead simple issue reporting (most of the stuff out there just looks like a control panel for a space ship) - scriptable API - file attachements Additionally: - programmed in ruby or python - easily create sub-projects ...? Issue Tracker ------------- - I like trac a lot, but no API from what I read http://trac.edgewall.org/ - Jira, thats the space-ship-panel (and in this very same category, buzilla...) http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira - github? too simplistic no file upload https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree/issues - redmine, possible kandidate http://www.redmine.org/ So what is your take on this?
On 8 February 2013 19:51, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> wrote:
With the recent announcement of google code to shut down their public API I see a major functionality gone for our project.
https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/IssueTrackerAPI
I would like to extend the functionality of our monkey, so it will become more intelligent: - give code critics feedback - reject new code that doesn't meet our criteria in general (unclassified methods / uncommented classes) - failing tests are serialized and attached to the issue - image with the changes integrated are attached to the issue
... you get the picture. All this stuff is impossible to achieve if there is no scriptable API available. By dropping that, google code becomes a silly toy with no further use to me.
Requirements ------------ So, we have to come up with a new issue tracker by june with the following requirements:
- dead simple issue reporting (most of the stuff out there just looks like a control panel for a space ship) - scriptable API - file attachements
Additionally: - programmed in ruby or python - easily create sub-projects ...?
Issue Tracker ------------- - I like trac a lot, but no API from what I read http://trac.edgewall.org/ - Jira, thats the space-ship-panel (and in this very same category, buzilla...) http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira - github? too simplistic no file upload https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree/issues
What's too simplistic, in particular? There's no file upload, but it does have an API and you could post URLs to some server somewhere. What would be really cool is using the git tools: you have a slice, you branch off master, apply the slice, push the branch, and get github's diff. You can signal bad pull requests by setting commit statuses on commits: that API's pretty straightforward (http://developer.github.com/v3/repos/statuses/). So the monkey could apply lint rules etc., and colour the commit accordingly. frank
- redmine, possible kandidate http://www.redmine.org/
So what is your take on this?
On 2013-02-08, at 21:19, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 February 2013 19:51, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> wrote:
With the recent announcement of google code to shut down their public API I see a major functionality gone for our project.
https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/IssueTrackerAPI
I would like to extend the functionality of our monkey, so it will become more intelligent: - give code critics feedback - reject new code that doesn't meet our criteria in general (unclassified methods / uncommented classes) - failing tests are serialized and attached to the issue - image with the changes integrated are attached to the issue
... you get the picture. All this stuff is impossible to achieve if there is no scriptable API available. By dropping that, google code becomes a silly toy with no further use to me.
Requirements ------------ So, we have to come up with a new issue tracker by june with the following requirements:
- dead simple issue reporting (most of the stuff out there just looks like a control panel for a space ship) - scriptable API - file attachements
Additionally: - programmed in ruby or python - easily create sub-projects ...?
Issue Tracker ------------- - I like trac a lot, but no API from what I read http://trac.edgewall.org/ - Jira, thats the space-ship-panel (and in this very same category, buzilla...) http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira - github? too simplistic no file upload https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree/issues
What's too simplistic, in particular?
There's no file upload, but it does have an API and you could post URLs to some server somewhere. What would be really cool is using the git tools: you have a slice, you branch off master, apply the slice, push the branch, and get github's diff.
ok, that would work for most issues, but how do we deal with changes that require pre and post-scripts? Until we can rebuild our full image from sources we need to have pre- and postscripts for certain critical issues. Currently these scripts are communicated to the integrator, which is a very bad thing. I want to have that done automatically. => we need file uploads for a while we might be able to link gists into an issue. But I would prefer real files for now. June isn't that far away and I don't want to change too many variables at the same time.
You can signal bad pull requests by setting commit statuses on commits: that API's pretty straightforward (http://developer.github.com/v3/repos/statuses/). So the monkey could apply lint rules etc., and colour the commit accordingly.
I know of all of that and it is certainly what I want in the future but: - we do not run on git yet - we replace our main issue tracker so I would like to have something that works as close as possible to the existing solution we have.
I would go for GitHub, its exposition is really good for the project. But if file attachments (other than pictures) is a showstopper, then... I would suggest: * Mantis (PHP Based, but with a SOAP API) http://mantisbt.org/ We've been using it in our company since 7 years ago, and it has proven to be really good. It's codebase is well organized too. Since a year or so, we integrated it with our development environment (Dolphin X6.1) by using its SOAP API (MantisConnect) and created some tool to version to and integrate from the issue repository. * JIRA (Java Based) a little bloated, but highly customizable, I'm using its on-demand version this since two months ago. I'm not using any API. No judgement yet. Regards,
On 2013-02-08, at 21:23, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
I would go for GitHub, its exposition is really good for the project. But if file attachments (other than pictures) is a showstopper, then...
it is a show-stopper for now. A future development cycle might solve this, but I don't want to change too many variables.
I would suggest: * Mantis (PHP Based, but with a SOAP API) http://mantisbt.org/ We've been using it in our company since 7 years ago, and it has proven to be really good. It's codebase is well organized too. Since a year or so, we integrated it with our development environment (Dolphin X6.1) by using its SOAP API (MantisConnect) and created some tool to version to and integrate from the issue repository.
Maybe it is just me, but if I look at a page like this: http://mantisbt.org/demo/view.php?id=15921 I have to think how the heck you can make a website like this in 2012... Then I feel more like investing a week of hacking to add a REST-API to trac :/
* JIRA (Java Based) a little bloated, but highly customizable, I'm using its on-demand version this since two months ago. I'm not using any API. No judgement yet.
JIRA is pure overkill for me, yes it might solve a lot of issue and certainly nice features, but I fear it is really too much
On Feb 8, 2013, at 9:47 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
On 2013-02-08, at 21:23, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
I would go for GitHub, its exposition is really good for the project. But if file attachments (other than pictures) is a showstopper, then...
it is a show-stopper for now. A future development cycle might solve this, but I don't want to change too many variables.
I would suggest: * Mantis (PHP Based, but with a SOAP API) http://mantisbt.org/ We've been using it in our company since 7 years ago, and it has proven to be really good. It's codebase is well organized too. Since a year or so, we integrated it with our development environment (Dolphin X6.1) by using its SOAP API (MantisConnect) and created some tool to version to and integrate from the issue repository.
Maybe it is just me, but if I look at a page like this: http://mantisbt.org/demo/view.php?id=15921
we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
I have to think how the heck you can make a website like this in 2012... Then I feel more like investing a week of hacking to add a REST-API to trac :/
* JIRA (Java Based) a little bloated, but highly customizable, I'm using its on-demand version this since two months ago. I'm not using any API. No judgement yet.
JIRA is pure overkill for me, yes it might solve a lot of issue and certainly nice features, but I fear it is really too much
(regarding Mantis) 2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't argue on that :) But it is reliable, flexible and full of features. We talked about migrating to JIRA, but we have ~12000 issues tracked, and moving off is not an option by now. On aesthetics I like the simplicity of GitHub or the "style" of JIRA (some bloatware can be removed and/or hidden). Regards, Esteban A. Maringolo
On 2013-02-08, at 21:58, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
(regarding Mantis)
2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't argue on that :)
But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
We talked about migrating to JIRA, but we have ~12000 issues tracked, and moving off is not an option by now.
On aesthetics I like the simplicity of GitHub or the "style" of JIRA (some bloatware can be removed and/or hidden).
true JIRA is already much better. But still compared to trac or github... :D Well in the end we might survive with JIRA as well ;) since issues should be filed in from the image directly. So the interface is mostly a problem for the integrators ;)
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013, at 04:04 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
On 2013-02-08, at 21:58, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
(regarding Mantis)
2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't argue on that :)
But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
We talked about migrating to JIRA, but we have ~12000 issues tracked, and moving off is not an option by now.
On aesthetics I like the simplicity of GitHub or the "style" of JIRA (some bloatware can be removed and/or hidden).
true JIRA is already much better. But still compared to trac or github... :D
Well in the end we might survive with JIRA as well ;) since issues should be filed in from the image directly. So the interface is mostly a problem for the integrators ;)
Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On Demand account. It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version). I know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues, but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of the other options. Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like. I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence; giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy. --Benjamin
On 2013-02-08, at 22:10, Benjamin Pollack <benjamin@bitquabit.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013, at 04:04 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
On 2013-02-08, at 21:58, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
(regarding Mantis)
2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't argue on that :)
But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
We talked about migrating to JIRA, but we have ~12000 issues tracked, and moving off is not an option by now.
On aesthetics I like the simplicity of GitHub or the "style" of JIRA (some bloatware can be removed and/or hidden).
true JIRA is already much better. But still compared to trac or github... :D
Well in the end we might survive with JIRA as well ;) since issues should be filed in from the image directly. So the interface is mostly a problem for the integrators ;)
Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On Demand account. It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version). I know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues, but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of the other options. Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.
Fog Creek, rings a bell... right the Trello guys ;) that's a very good start ;)
I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence; giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.
I am evaluating it right now ;) looks nice so far. Just for the record, even though I am right now the only one driving this conversation I am by far not the person to decide ;) but I hope I can at least filter out some rusty solutions...
On Feb 8, 2013, at 10:10 PM, Benjamin Pollack <benjamin@bitquabit.com> wrote:
Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On Demand account. It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version). I know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues, but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of the other options. Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.
That sound very interesting! I will play with it (I did already in the past a little)
I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence; giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.
:-) 1996⦠I think I stumbled on it in 1997. Considering that many now e.g. at RMoD where perfect eToys target age (and younger) back then⦠strange. Marcus
On 08 Feb 2013, at 22:10, Benjamin Pollack <benjamin@bitquabit.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013, at 04:04 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
On 2013-02-08, at 21:58, "Esteban A. Maringolo" <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
(regarding Mantis)
2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't argue on that :)
But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
We talked about migrating to JIRA, but we have ~12000 issues tracked, and moving off is not an option by now.
On aesthetics I like the simplicity of GitHub or the "style" of JIRA (some bloatware can be removed and/or hidden).
true JIRA is already much better. But still compared to trac or github... :D
Well in the end we might survive with JIRA as well ;) since issues should be filed in from the image directly. So the interface is mostly a problem for the integrators ;)
Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On Demand account. It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version). I know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues, but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of the other options. Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.
I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence; giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.
--Benjamin
Very interesting offer indeed. Would be very cool. -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:59 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On Demand account. It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version). I know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues, but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of the other options. Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.
I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence; giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.
--Benjamin
Very interesting offer indeed. Would be very cool.
Yes! Camillo already did a tracker for playing: https://pharo.fogbugz.com Can you enable us to be testers for the new version? Marcus
I wanna play too :) Ben On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:05 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:59 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On Demand account. It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version). I know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues, but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of the other options. Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.
I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence; giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.
--Benjamin
Very interesting offer indeed. Would be very cool.
Yes! Camillo already did a tracker for playing:
Can you enable us to be testers for the new version?
Marcus
in you are... ;) On 2013-02-09, at 00:12, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
I wanna play too :)
Ben
On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:05 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:59 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On Demand account. It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version). I know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues, but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of the other options. Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.
I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence; giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.
--Benjamin
Very interesting offer indeed. Would be very cool.
Yes! Camillo already did a tracker for playing:
Can you enable us to be testers for the new version?
Marcus
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013, at 06:14 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
in you are... ;)
On 2013-02-09, at 00:12, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
I wanna play too :)
Ben
On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:05 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:59 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On Demand account. It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version). I know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues, but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of the other options. Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.
I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence; giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.
--Benjamin
Very interesting offer indeed. Would be very cool.
Yes! Camillo already did a tracker for playing:
Can you enable us to be testers for the new version?
Marcus
We've got a blizzard right now, so I'm having some trouble getting in touch with the FogBugz team to bump you to the super-fast beta version, but I've made the pharo.fogbugz.com trial expire in 2023, turned on Kiln just in case that's interesting, and modified the account to accept unlimited users--in other words, you've got everything *except* the super-fast beta version. Worst-case, I'll turn that on myself on Monday. Best-case, someone from the FogBugz team can turn it on for you before then. I know this is hand-wavy, but imagine you've got what you see now, except that search and case navigation/case actions are effectively instant. If you don't want to take my word for it, please accept we've got a blizzard and give me until Monday to turn things on. :) Please feel free to ask me question, either here or as bmp on Freenode. --Benjamin
On 2013-02-09, at 00:24, Benjamin Pollack <benjamin@bitquabit.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013, at 06:14 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
in you are... ;)
On 2013-02-09, at 00:12, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
I wanna play too :)
Ben
On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:05 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:59 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On Demand account. It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version). I know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues, but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of the other options. Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.
I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence; giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.
--Benjamin
Very interesting offer indeed. Would be very cool.
Yes! Camillo already did a tracker for playing:
Can you enable us to be testers for the new version?
Marcus
We've got a blizzard right now, so I'm having some trouble getting in touch with the FogBugz team to bump you to the super-fast beta version, but I've made the pharo.fogbugz.com trial expire in 2023, turned on Kiln just in case that's interesting, and modified the account to accept unlimited users--in other words, you've got everything *except* the super-fast beta version. Worst-case, I'll turn that on myself on Monday. Best-case, someone from the FogBugz team can turn it on for you before then. I know this is hand-wavy, but imagine you've got what you see now, except that search and case navigation/case actions are effectively instant. If you don't want to take my word for it, please accept we've got a blizzard and give me until Monday to turn things on. :)
Please feel free to ask me question, either here or as bmp on Freenode.
--Benjamin
thanks ;)
I think we can all say a big thank you :) Ben On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:27 AM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2013-02-09, at 00:24, Benjamin Pollack <benjamin@bitquabit.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013, at 06:14 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
in you are... ;)
On 2013-02-09, at 00:12, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
I wanna play too :)
Ben
On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:05 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:59 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On Demand account. It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version). I know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues, but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of the other options. Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.
I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence; giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.
--Benjamin
Very interesting offer indeed. Would be very cool.
Yes! Camillo already did a tracker for playing:
Can you enable us to be testers for the new version?
Marcus
We've got a blizzard right now, so I'm having some trouble getting in touch with the FogBugz team to bump you to the super-fast beta version, but I've made the pharo.fogbugz.com trial expire in 2023, turned on Kiln just in case that's interesting, and modified the account to accept unlimited users--in other words, you've got everything *except* the super-fast beta version. Worst-case, I'll turn that on myself on Monday. Best-case, someone from the FogBugz team can turn it on for you before then. I know this is hand-wavy, but imagine you've got what you see now, except that search and case navigation/case actions are effectively instant. If you don't want to take my word for it, please accept we've got a blizzard and give me until Monday to turn things on. :)
Please feel free to ask me question, either here or as bmp on Freenode.
--Benjamin
thanks ;)
Benjamin Van Ryseghem-2 wrote
I think we can all say a big thank you :)
Yes, thank you for this amazing gift :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/New-Issue-Tracker-tp4668700p4668799.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
thanks a lot ben. I'm busy migrating on 10.7 to 10.8 on a new machine and bumping into wellâ¦. glitches :) I will sync with the team monday. Stef On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:24 AM, Benjamin Pollack <benjamin@bitquabit.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013, at 06:14 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote:
in you are... ;)
On 2013-02-09, at 00:12, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
I wanna play too :)
Ben
On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:05 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:59 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
Fog Creek would be happy to provide all of you with a free FogBugz On Demand account. It has a good API, it has file attachments, it has custom workflows, triggers, and plugins, and we're about to release a version that's Gmail-level fast (which I could turn on immediately for a Pharo account, so you don't have to use the existing "slow" version). I know it's a relatively complete tracker compared to e.g. GitHub Issues, but I'd like to believe that our UI is easier to navigate than some of the other options. Plus, I'd be happy to help migrate your issues from Google Code to FogBugz on your behalf, with full history if you'd like.
I know I pretty much lurk on this list these days, but I've been programming in Squeak since 1996 and Pharo since it came into existence; giving all of you a free, good bug tracker would make me quite happy.
--Benjamin
Very interesting offer indeed. Would be very cool.
Yes! Camillo already did a tracker for playing:
Can you enable us to be testers for the new version?
Marcus
We've got a blizzard right now, so I'm having some trouble getting in touch with the FogBugz team to bump you to the super-fast beta version, but I've made the pharo.fogbugz.com trial expire in 2023, turned on Kiln just in case that's interesting, and modified the account to accept unlimited users--in other words, you've got everything *except* the super-fast beta version. Worst-case, I'll turn that on myself on Monday. Best-case, someone from the FogBugz team can turn it on for you before then. I know this is hand-wavy, but imagine you've got what you see now, except that search and case navigation/case actions are effectively instant. If you don't want to take my word for it, please accept we've got a blizzard and give me until Monday to turn things on. :)
Please feel free to ask me question, either here or as bmp on Freenode.
--Benjamin
On Sat, Feb 9, 2013, at 12:47 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:
thanks a lot ben. I'm busy migrating on 10.7 to 10.8 on a new machine and bumping into wellâ¦. glitches :) I will sync with the team monday.
Good timing! The FogBugz team rolled pharo.fogbugz.com over to the beta this morning. Each person can opt into or out of the beta individually; to avoid disrupting you (the account seems very active at the moment), I did *not* preemptively move everyone. To engage the beta UI, in the toolbar at the top, you should see a link that says "FogBugz Beta UI is disabled. [Enable it.]" Click the link, and, after a full-page refresh, you should notice that suddenly everything runs *much* faster. Specifically, the new UI speeds up list pages, case/email navigation, case/email creation, and the search system. While we think the new version is solid, and have been using it internally for several months, there may be a bug or two. It's a beta; that's the point. If you do hit an issue, you should find a link to go back to the "slow" version in the same location, as well as a feedback form where you can tell us what we need to fix. Again, please feel free to bug me if you have any questions, either on the list, on IRC (bmp), or directly, and I'll be happy to answer them. And, if all of you feel like FogBugz just isn't the right tool for Pharo, that's fine, too. I just wanted you to have it as an option. Cheers, --Benjamin
Is there a way to have public access to issues? I mean, read only access to see the backlog of issues, what's being done, etc. With FogBugz all I see at pharo.fogbugz.com is a login page, whilst with Google Issue Tracking I was able to see the milestones, etc. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo 2013/2/11 Benjamin Pollack <benjamin@bitquabit.com>:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2013, at 12:47 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:
thanks a lot ben. I'm busy migrating on 10.7 to 10.8 on a new machine and bumping into wellâ¦. glitches :) I will sync with the team monday.
Good timing! The FogBugz team rolled pharo.fogbugz.com over to the beta this morning. Each person can opt into or out of the beta individually; to avoid disrupting you (the account seems very active at the moment), I did *not* preemptively move everyone. To engage the beta UI, in the toolbar at the top, you should see a link that says "FogBugz Beta UI is disabled. [Enable it.]" Click the link, and, after a full-page refresh, you should notice that suddenly everything runs *much* faster. Specifically, the new UI speeds up list pages, case/email navigation, case/email creation, and the search system.
While we think the new version is solid, and have been using it internally for several months, there may be a bug or two. It's a beta; that's the point. If you do hit an issue, you should find a link to go back to the "slow" version in the same location, as well as a feedback form where you can tell us what we need to fix.
Again, please feel free to bug me if you have any questions, either on the list, on IRC (bmp), or directly, and I'll be happy to answer them. And, if all of you feel like FogBugz just isn't the right tool for Pharo, that's fine, too. I just wanted you to have it as an option.
Cheers, --Benjamin
On Feb 11, 2013, at 4:59 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
Is there a way to have public access to issues? I mean, read only access to see the backlog of issues, what's being done, etc.
With FogBugz all I see at pharo.fogbugz.com is a login page, whilst with Google Issue Tracking I was able to see the milestones, etc.
Yes, having the list of bugs public we should somehow have. Maybe this plugin can help? http://www.fogcreek.com/fogbugz/plugins/plugin.aspx?sId=communitycaselist%40... But the best would be a read-only way to look at the bugs (by milestone, even) that does not require to log in. Marcus
After a discussion with Christophe which is in favor of JIRA ;) we decided to put a wiki page online where we should list all the requirements (not just the ones I think are important :P) https://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/NewIssueTracker
I really don't like JIRA, I find it bloated, and I always lose myself there. IMHO FogBugs seems *a lot* nicer to use. Nico Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> writes:
After a discussion with Christophe which is in favor of JIRA ;) we decided to put a wiki page online where we should list all the requirements (not just the ones I think are important :P)
-- Nicolas Petton http://nicolas-petton.fr
Hi all, I quickly developed a basic importer (Google code => Jira) so that everyone can play a bit with real data. There is still a lot of missing stuff that we can import (ex: labels, author) but I will only do that once we agree on the new bugtracker to choose. So, we have a free Jira instance available at https://pharo-project.atlassian.net/browse/DEMO (there is already a Pharo project but I prefer to not pollute it with tests). Direct acces to issues: https://pharo-project.atlassian.net/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20DEMO I configured the minimum. We can tune this portal if needed. If you want to play, first register and ask me to become a project member. Cheers, Christophe. Le 12 févr. 2013 à 14:16, Camillo Bruni a écrit :
After a discussion with Christophe which is in favor of JIRA ;) we decided to put a wiki page online where we should list all the requirements (not just the ones I think are important :P)
thanks christophe :) For me this would be ok. Is there an API for scripting it? Stef
Hi all,
I quickly developed a basic importer (Google code => Jira) so that everyone can play a bit with real data. There is still a lot of missing stuff that we can import (ex: labels, author) but I will only do that once we agree on the new bugtracker to choose.
So, we have a free Jira instance available at https://pharo-project.atlassian.net/browse/DEMO (there is already a Pharo project but I prefer to not pollute it with tests). Direct acces to issues: https://pharo-project.atlassian.net/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20DEMO I configured the minimum. We can tune this portal if needed.
If you want to play, first register and ask me to become a project member.
Cheers, Christophe.
Le 12 févr. 2013 à 14:16, Camillo Bruni a écrit :
After a discussion with Christophe which is in favor of JIRA ;) we decided to put a wiki page online where we should list all the requirements (not just the ones I think are important :P)
On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:16 PM, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse@free.fr> wrote:
thanks christophe :) For me this would be ok.
I still have a preference for fogbugz :)
Is there an API for scripting it?
There is one but not yet implemented in Pharo :) (contrary to FogBugz ^^) We ask people from the mailing to express their opinion about it, but so far, so answers :S Ben
Stef
Hi all,
I quickly developed a basic importer (Google code => Jira) so that everyone can play a bit with real data. There is still a lot of missing stuff that we can import (ex: labels, author) but I will only do that once we agree on the new bugtracker to choose.
So, we have a free Jira instance available at https://pharo-project.atlassian.net/browse/DEMO (there is already a Pharo project but I prefer to not pollute it with tests). Direct acces to issues: https://pharo-project.atlassian.net/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20DEMO I configured the minimum. We can tune this portal if needed.
If you want to play, first register and ask me to become a project member.
Cheers, Christophe.
Le 12 févr. 2013 à 14:16, Camillo Bruni a écrit :
After a discussion with Christophe which is in favor of JIRA ;) we decided to put a wiki page online where we should list all the requirements (not just the ones I think are important :P)
Fogbugz is cool and for sure more fully featured. But I do meet Jira more often in the field (about 80% of my clients use that thing for better or worse). But if we talk about such things, then let's have a look at Fossil. At least, it is FOSS software. Phil 2013/2/20 Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com>:
On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:16 PM, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse@free.fr> wrote:
thanks christophe :) For me this would be ok.
I still have a preference for fogbugz :)
Is there an API for scripting it?
There is one but not yet implemented in Pharo :) (contrary to FogBugz ^^)
We ask people from the mailing to express their opinion about it, but so far, so answers :S
Ben
Stef
Hi all,
I quickly developed a basic importer (Google code => Jira) so that everyone can play a bit with real data. There is still a lot of missing stuff that we can import (ex: labels, author) but I will only do that once we agree on the new bugtracker to choose.
So, we have a free Jira instance available at https://pharo-project.atlassian.net/browse/DEMO (there is already a Pharo project but I prefer to not pollute it with tests). Direct acces to issues: https://pharo-project.atlassian.net/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20DEMO I configured the minimum. We can tune this portal if needed.
If you want to play, first register and ask me to become a project member.
Cheers, Christophe.
Le 12 févr. 2013 à 14:16, Camillo Bruni a écrit :
After a discussion with Christophe which is in favor of JIRA ;) we decided to put a wiki page online where we should list all the requirements (not just the ones I think are important :P)
On 2013-02-11, at 16:47, Benjamin Pollack <benjamin@bitquabit.com> wrote:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2013, at 12:47 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:
thanks a lot ben. I'm busy migrating on 10.7 to 10.8 on a new machine and bumping into wellâ¦. glitches :) I will sync with the team monday.
Good timing! The FogBugz team rolled pharo.fogbugz.com over to the beta this morning. Each person can opt into or out of the beta individually; to avoid disrupting you (the account seems very active at the moment), I did *not* preemptively move everyone. To engage the beta UI, in the toolbar at the top, you should see a link that says "FogBugz Beta UI is disabled. [Enable it.]" Click the link, and, after a full-page refresh, you should notice that suddenly everything runs *much* faster. Specifically, the new UI speeds up list pages, case/email navigation, case/email creation, and the search system.
indeed looks nice and quite a bit faster ;)
While we think the new version is solid, and have been using it internally for several months, there may be a bug or two. It's a beta; that's the point. If you do hit an issue, you should find a link to go back to the "slow" version in the same location, as well as a feedback form where you can tell us what we need to fix.
Again, please feel free to bug me if you have any questions, either on the list, on IRC (bmp), or directly, and I'll be happy to answer them. And, if all of you feel like FogBugz just isn't the right tool for Pharo, that's fine, too. I just wanted you to have it as an option.
So far I think it looks good ;). we started implementing the API to work on FogBugz. I guess we will decide this week whether or not to migrate to FogBugz. Am I right that you have a tool to migrate the issues from google code? Otherwise we might look into using our google code API to migrate issues...
On Feb 11, 2013, at 8:21 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2013-02-11, at 16:47, Benjamin Pollack <benjamin@bitquabit.com> wrote:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2013, at 12:47 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:
thanks a lot ben. I'm busy migrating on 10.7 to 10.8 on a new machine and bumping into wellâ¦. glitches :) I will sync with the team monday.
Good timing! The FogBugz team rolled pharo.fogbugz.com over to the beta this morning. Each person can opt into or out of the beta individually; to avoid disrupting you (the account seems very active at the moment), I did *not* preemptively move everyone. To engage the beta UI, in the toolbar at the top, you should see a link that says "FogBugz Beta UI is disabled. [Enable it.]" Click the link, and, after a full-page refresh, you should notice that suddenly everything runs *much* faster. Specifically, the new UI speeds up list pages, case/email navigation, case/email creation, and the search system.
indeed looks nice and quite a bit faster ;)
for me it does not work. It just says "Loading" with the progress bar, after a while it adds a link like "Slow, Busted? Go back to old UI"... This is Safari on MacOS 10.8.2
While we think the new version is solid, and have been using it internally for several months, there may be a bug or two. It's a beta; that's the point. If you do hit an issue, you should find a link to go back to the "slow" version in the same location, as well as a feedback form where you can tell us what we need to fix.
Again, please feel free to bug me if you have any questions, either on the list, on IRC (bmp), or directly, and I'll be happy to answer them. And, if all of you feel like FogBugz just isn't the right tool for Pharo, that's fine, too. I just wanted you to have it as an option.
So far I think it looks good ;). we started implementing the API to work on FogBugz. I guess we will decide this week whether or not to migrate to FogBugz.
Yes, we should check and then decide. Marcus
On Feb 8, 2013, at 10:00 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
(regarding Mantis)
2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't argue on that :)
But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
But if you look at it.. they published statistics for Squeak, and it was something like 10 people used it in 12 months on 50 bugs (or something like that). We closed >1500 in not even 10 months⦠the software used as a issue tracker has to be some kind of influence on that. Marcus
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 10:00 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
(regarding Mantis)
2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't argue on that :)
But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
But if you look at it.. they published statistics for Squeak, and it was something like 10 people used it in 12 months on 50 bugs (or something like that).
We closed >1500 in not even 10 months⦠the software used as a issue tracker has to be some kind of influence on that.
That's not a valid comparison. In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a much higher rate than that but it isn't tracked on the issue tracker, because....... we mostly don't use an issue tracker.
Marcus
-- best, Eliot
On 2013-02-08, at 23:30, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 10:00 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
(regarding Mantis)
2013/2/8 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
we used it for squeak and I never liked it.
It is ugly as it gets, I don't like its appearance either. I won't argue on that :)
But it is reliable, flexible and full of features.
But if you look at it.. they published statistics for Squeak, and it was something like 10 people used it in 12 months on 50 bugs (or something like that).
We closed >1500 in not even 10 months⦠the software used as a issue tracker has to be some kind of influence on that.
That's not a valid comparison. In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a much higher rate than that but it isn't tracked on the issue tracker, because.......
we mostly don't use an issue tracker.
sigh! which is impressive in 2013...
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> wrote:
That's not a valid comparison. In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a much higher rate
Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.
I'm pretty sure [ ;) ], even though I don't have the figures (mainly due to us not using an issue tracker). How would Craig provide a full list of bugs without an issue tracker?
Marcus
-- best, Eliot
On 8 February 2013 22:41, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> wrote:
That's not a valid comparison. In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a much higher rate
Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.
Well, obviously Squeak is a rather smaller community, so that's hardly surprising. Squeakers _do_ need to use bugs.squeak.org, but as I'm sure you know from getting Pharo going, this is partly a matter of education. frank
Marcus
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:49 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 February 2013 22:41, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> wrote:
That's not a valid comparison. In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a much higher rate
Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.
Well, obviously Squeak is a rather smaller community, so that's hardly surprising.
Squeakers _do_ need to use bugs.squeak.org, but as I'm sure you know from getting Pharo going, this is partly a matter of education.
It is a matter of someone doing it. Marcus
On 8 February 2013 22:51, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:49 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 February 2013 22:41, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> wrote:
That's not a valid comparison. In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a much higher rate
Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.
Well, obviously Squeak is a rather smaller community, so that's hardly surprising.
Squeakers _do_ need to use bugs.squeak.org, but as I'm sure you know from getting Pharo going, this is partly a matter of education.
It is a matter of someone doing it.
... and convincing people to do it is called education. Note my use of the word "partly". Anyway, I'm not sure why you're getting stuck into this. You sound annoyed. How about we get back to the topic? Mantis is disgustingly ugly, but it does work. Trac is highly customisable (we have extensively modified its workflow at my work), allows you to upload files, and so on. It's not exactly pretty either. frank
Marcus
On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:01 AM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 February 2013 22:51, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:49 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 February 2013 22:41, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> wrote:
That's not a valid comparison. In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a much higher rate
Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.
Well, obviously Squeak is a rather smaller community, so that's hardly surprising.
Squeakers _do_ need to use bugs.squeak.org, but as I'm sure you know from getting Pharo going, this is partly a matter of education.
It is a matter of someone doing it.
... and convincing people to do it is called education. Note my use of the word "partly". Anyway, I'm not sure why you're getting stuck into this. You sound annoyed.
I will always be annoyed about that topic⦠;-) Marcus
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>wrote:
On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:01 AM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 February 2013 22:51, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:49 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 8 February 2013 22:41, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>
wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com>
wrote:
That's not a valid comparison. In Squeak trunk bugs are getting
fixed at a
much higher rate
Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.
Well, obviously Squeak is a rather smaller community, so that's hardly surprising.
Squeakers _do_ need to use bugs.squeak.org, but as I'm sure you know from getting Pharo going, this is partly a matter of education.
It is a matter of someone doing it.
... and convincing people to do it is called education. Note my use of the word "partly". Anyway, I'm not sure why you're getting stuck into this. You sound annoyed.
I will always be annoyed about that topic⦠;-)
Quite right too. The issue for me is that the bug trackers are not well-enough integrated into my Squeak work flow. Montivcello is beautifully integrated into the work flow and hence a joy to use. I'm not proposing reinventing the wheel and writing a Squeak/Pharo bug tracker (although we did that at ParcPlace/ObjectShare/Cincom and the results were excellent). But at the same time I don't want to go to an external web page to read bugs (althoguh I'm willing to) and I *definitely* don't want to go there to update fixes. I want to update fixes from my Monticello check-in and/or TestRunner. I wonder whether it is feasible to provide a skin to an existing, popular bug tracker so that at least one can have the updating/closing side of the work-flow brought much closer to Monticello check-in/TestRunner? Wouldn't the ideal work-flow be built around an interface between TestRunner and a bug tracker? If we built such an interface wouldn't there be much greater use? Imagine being able to have one-click (plus filling in a description in a submit dialogue) bug creation from TestRunner? And e.g. using pragmas or some-such, add the state and history, or simply the pointer to the bug tracker page, embedded in the test case? Then one could read, in-image, the state of the bug long after it was fixed, in the context of the test that demonstrated the bug and its fix.
Marcus
-- best, Eliot
On Feb 9, 2013, at 1:06 AM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:01 AM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 February 2013 22:51, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:49 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 February 2013 22:41, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com> wrote:
That's not a valid comparison. In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a much higher rate
Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.
Well, obviously Squeak is a rather smaller community, so that's hardly surprising.
Squeakers _do_ need to use bugs.squeak.org, but as I'm sure you know from getting Pharo going, this is partly a matter of education.
It is a matter of someone doing it.
... and convincing people to do it is called education. Note my use of the word "partly". Anyway, I'm not sure why you're getting stuck into this. You sound annoyed.
I will always be annoyed about that topic⦠;-)
Quite right too. The issue for me is that the bug trackers are not well-enough integrated into my Squeak work flow. Montivcello is beautifully integrated into the work flow and hence a joy to use. I'm not proposing reinventing the wheel and writing a Squeak/Pharo bug tracker (although we did that at ParcPlace/ObjectShare/Cincom and the results were excellent). But at the same time I don't want to go to an external web page to read bugs (althoguh I'm willing to) and I *definitely* don't want to go there to update fixes. I want to update fixes from my Monticello check-in and/or TestRunner.
I wonder whether it is feasible to provide a skin to an existing, popular bug tracker so that at least one can have the updating/closing side of the work-flow brought much closer to Monticello check-in/TestRunner?
Wouldn't the ideal work-flow be built around an interface between TestRunner and a bug tracker? If we built such an interface wouldn't there be much greater use? Imagine being able to have one-click (plus filling in a description in a submit dialogue) bug creation from TestRunner? And e.g. using pragmas or some-such, add the state and history, or simply the pointer to the bug tracker page, embedded in the test case? Then one could read, in-image, the state of the bug long after it was fixed, in the context of the test that demonstrated the bug and its fix.
That's exactly why Camillo and I spent so much time implementing a Google Issue Tracker API in Smalltalk :) And why we are looking for an alternative solution providing a scriptable API Ben
Marcus
-- best, Eliot
Hi Ben, please include the squeak list in this discussion It's clearly relevant to the whole community. On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Benjamin < benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Feb 9, 2013, at 1:06 AM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>wrote:
On Feb 9, 2013, at 12:01 AM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 February 2013 22:51, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:49 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 8 February 2013 22:41, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr>
wrote:
On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:34 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni@gmail.com>
wrote:
That's not a valid comparison. In Squeak trunk bugs are getting
fixed at a
much higher rate
Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.
Well, obviously Squeak is a rather smaller community, so that's hardly surprising.
Squeakers _do_ need to use bugs.squeak.org, but as I'm sure you know from getting Pharo going, this is partly a matter of education.
It is a matter of someone doing it.
... and convincing people to do it is called education. Note my use of the word "partly". Anyway, I'm not sure why you're getting stuck into this. You sound annoyed.
I will always be annoyed about that topic⦠;-)
Quite right too. The issue for me is that the bug trackers are not well-enough integrated into my Squeak work flow. Montivcello is beautifully integrated into the work flow and hence a joy to use. I'm not proposing reinventing the wheel and writing a Squeak/Pharo bug tracker (although we did that at ParcPlace/ObjectShare/Cincom and the results were excellent). But at the same time I don't want to go to an external web page to read bugs (althoguh I'm willing to) and I *definitely* don't want to go there to update fixes. I want to update fixes from my Monticello check-in and/or TestRunner.
I wonder whether it is feasible to provide a skin to an existing, popular bug tracker so that at least one can have the updating/closing side of the work-flow brought much closer to Monticello check-in/TestRunner?
Wouldn't the ideal work-flow be built around an interface between TestRunner and a bug tracker? If we built such an interface wouldn't there be much greater use? Imagine being able to have one-click (plus filling in a description in a submit dialogue) bug creation from TestRunner? And e.g. using pragmas or some-such, add the state and history, or simply the pointer to the bug tracker page, embedded in the test case? Then one could read, in-image, the state of the bug long after it was fixed, in the context of the test that demonstrated the bug and its fix.
That's exactly why Camillo and I spent so much time implementing a Google Issue Tracker API in Smalltalk :) And why we are looking for an alternative solution providing a scriptable API
So two questions. a) What are the candidates? b) how much effort do you think it would be, compared to the interface you've already built, implementing a bug tracker with a scriptable interface? It is essentially an evolveable DB schema plus some triggers to send emails, right?
Ben
Marcus
-- best, Eliot
-- best, Eliot
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:49 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, obviously Squeak is a rather smaller community, so that's hardly surprising.
What is cause and what is effect? -- Marcus Denker -- denker@acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de
On 9 February 2013 00:40, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 11:49 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, obviously Squeak is a rather smaller community, so that's hardly surprising.
What is cause and what is effect?
I'm not going to dig up old history. It's clearly painful, and it is of no benefit to anyone. Right now Pharo clearly has a much larger community, and quite a few people paid to work full time on Pharo. That's wonderful, and excellent, and I'm very happy because I too reap the benefits. It also means that pointing fingers at laughing at Squeak's pitifully slow progress (because this is what it looks like you think of the Squeak community) is ridiculous and unfair. So I will continue working on Squeak core, and making sure my libraries work on both Squeak and Pharo so that we can _all_ benefit. frank
-- Marcus Denker -- denker@acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de
Hi-- Eliot writes:
That's not a valid comparison. In Squeak trunk bugs are getting fixed at a much higher rate
Marcus responds:
Are you sure? The list that Craig showed at Fosdem was rather short.
Hey, I only showed the usual short list of highlights from the Squeak 4.4 welcome windows, and clearly identified it as such. -C -- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
Hello. FYI, Redmine is a rewrite in Ruby of Trac (programmed in Python), with several improvements. Later, some developers from Redmine made a fork of it named ChiliProject, to go more faster in development. I recommend ChiliProject over Redmine. ChiliProject have all characteristics that you list, plus LDAP and OpenID authentication, much more. https://www.chiliproject.org/ https://www.chiliproject.org/projects/chiliproject/wiki/REST_API But... I have a look a fogbugz.com :) El viernes, 8 de febrero de 2013, Camillo Bruni escribió:
With the recent announcement of google code to shut down their public API I see a major functionality gone for our project.
https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/IssueTrackerAPI
I would like to extend the functionality of our monkey, so it will become more intelligent: - give code critics feedback - reject new code that doesn't meet our criteria in general (unclassified methods / uncommented classes) - failing tests are serialized and attached to the issue - image with the changes integrated are attached to the issue
... you get the picture. All this stuff is impossible to achieve if there is no scriptable API available. By dropping that, google code becomes a silly toy with no further use to me.
Requirements ------------ So, we have to come up with a new issue tracker by june with the following requirements:
- dead simple issue reporting (most of the stuff out there just looks like a control panel for a space ship) - scriptable API - file attachements
Additionally: - programmed in ruby or python - easily create sub-projects ...?
Issue Tracker ------------- - I like trac a lot, but no API from what I read http://trac.edgewall.org/ - Jira, thats the space-ship-panel (and in this very same category, buzilla...) http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira - github? too simplistic no file upload https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree/issues - redmine, possible kandidate http://www.redmine.org/
So what is your take on this?
Attachment using Rest Api (and linking it to a new or previously existing issue): http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/wiki/Rest_api#Attaching-files ChiliProject have a powerfull wiki syntax (usable too in issues, news, message commits shown in repository view), with use TextTile and CodeRay: http://hokusai.com.ar/help/wiki_syntax_detailed http://www.textism.com/tools/textile/ http://coderay.rubychan.de/ Sadly, the demo site of ChilliProject id unavailable, but I have an instalation online that I use to my work, and I had create an account (user pharo, pass pharo) for if you want give a try. http://hokusai.com.ar/ <http://hokusai.com.ar/help/wiki_syntax_detailed> http://hokusai.com.ar/projects (see New project button) http://hokusai.com.ar/projects/test/repository (svn:// scm.gforge.inria.fr/svnroot/pharo/) PS: As noted, I am a happy user of ChiliProject. El sábado, 9 de febrero de 2013, Gastón Dall' Oglio escribió:
Hello.
FYI, Redmine is a rewrite in Ruby of Trac (programmed in Python), with several improvements. Later, some developers from Redmine made a fork of it named ChiliProject, to go more faster in development. I recommend ChiliProject over Redmine. ChiliProject have all characteristics that you list, plus LDAP and OpenID authentication, much more.
https://www.chiliproject.org/ https://www.chiliproject.org/projects/chiliproject/wiki/REST_API
But... I have a look a fogbugz.com :)
El viernes, 8 de febrero de 2013, Camillo Bruni escribió:
With the recent announcement of google code to shut down their public API I see a major functionality gone for our project.
https://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/IssueTrackerAPI
I would like to extend the functionality of our monkey, so it will become more intelligent: - give code critics feedback - reject new code that doesn't meet our criteria in general (unclassified methods / uncommented classes) - failing tests are serialized and attached to the issue - image with the changes integrated are attached to the issue
... you get the picture. All this stuff is impossible to achieve if there is no scriptable API available. By dropping that, google code becomes a silly toy with no further use to me.
Requirements ------------ So, we have to come up with a new issue tracker by june with the following requirements:
- dead simple issue reporting (most of the stuff out there just looks like a control panel for a space ship) - scriptable API - file attachements
Additionally: - programmed in ruby or python - easily create sub-projects ...?
Issue Tracker ------------- - I like trac a lot, but no API from what I read http://trac.edgewall.org/ - Jira, thats the space-ship-panel (and in this very same category, buzilla...) http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira - github? too simplistic no file upload https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree/issues - redmine, possible kandidate http://www.redmine.org/
So what is your take on this?
participants (16)
-
Benjamin -
Benjamin Pollack -
Camillo Bruni -
Christophe Demarey -
Craig Latta -
Eliot Miranda -
Esteban A. Maringolo -
Frank Shearar -
Gastón Dall' Oglio -
Marcus Denker -
Nicolas Petton -
phil＠highoctane.be -
Sean P. DeNigris -
stephane ducasse -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Sven Van Caekenberghe