GTDebugger shortcuts usability
Hi, I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely random. Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible? For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts. â 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined? Peter
Hi Peter, Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work better. In this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears). Cheers, Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png> â 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Value is always contextual."
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work better. In this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said: 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined? as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut confusing with restart restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point 2) If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable. Peter
Cheers, Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png> â 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice to have it everywhere by default in some variant... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { StartupAction name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' code: [ GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' ). RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''R'''. RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''P'''. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''I'''. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ] runOnce: true. } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a concrete
set of default keybindings that you think would work better. In this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said:
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut confusing with restart restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point 2)
If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable.
Peter
Cheers, Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png> â 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging. Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it. Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the bottom and requires travels all the time. Phil On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice to
have it everywhere by default in some variant...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { StartupAction name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' code: [ GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' ). RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''R'''. RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''P'''. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''I'''. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ] runOnce: true. } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a
concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work better. In this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said:
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is
underlined?
as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut
confusing with restart
restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point 2)
If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable.
Peter
Cheers, Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are
completely random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see
them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png> â 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux
btw)
2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key Reference http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/ cheers -ben On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be <philippe.back@gmail.com> wrote:
Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging.
Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it.
Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the bottom and requires travels all the time.
Phil
On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice to have it everywhere by default in some variant...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { StartupAction name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' code: [ GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' ). RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''R'''. RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''P'''. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''I'''. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ] runOnce: true. } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work better. In this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said:
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut confusing with restart restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point 2)
If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable.
Peter
Cheers, Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png>
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
So they use F keys, however they are clearly not uniform either, so I don't see the appeal. Not to mention that they will be just as hard to remember. On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key Reference http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/
cheers -ben
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be <philippe.back@gmail.com> wrote:
Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging.
Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it.
Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the bottom and requires travels all the time.
Phil
On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice to have it everywhere by default in some variant...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { StartupAction name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' code: [ GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' ). RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''R'''. RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to:
1'.
ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''P'''. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''I'''. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ] runOnce: true. } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work better.
In
this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said:
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut confusing with restart restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point 2)
If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable.
Peter
Cheers, Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are
completely
random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png>
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
Hitting a single key instead of Ctl-Alt-whatever madness. Note that most people have some Java background so, F5->F8 makes a lot of sense. Also, Windows has Ctrl instead of Alt for most actions in Pharo5, that's annoying. And you can put a little paper on top of them for easy reference. If we could have something like http://community.sparxsystems.com/community-resources/509-81enterprise-archi... for Pharo, using a bunch of function keys, that would be cool. Phil On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
So they use F keys, however they are clearly not uniform either, so I don't see the appeal. Not to mention that they will be just as hard to remember.
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key Reference http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/
cheers -ben
Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging.
Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it.
Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the bottom and requires travels all the time.
Phil
On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice to have it everywhere by default in some variant...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { StartupAction name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' code: [ GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' ). RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''R'''. RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to:
1'.
ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''P'''. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''I'''. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ] runOnce: true. } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work
better. In
this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said:
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut confusing with restart restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be <philippe.back@gmail.com> wrote: 2)
If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable.
Peter
Cheers, Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are
completely
random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png>
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
Hitting a single key instead of Ctl-Alt-whatever madness.
Hmm. That's a good point. And since the shortcut name takes barely any space it could be presented alongside the label. Proceed[F5] or Into[6] On the other hand, for me personally at least... pressing ctrl+shift takes very little hand movement, while F keys are quite far. But then again, I'm using Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keybord 4000 which is _really_ big, on laptop it may not be such an issue.
Note that most people have some Java background so, F5->F8 makes a lot of sense.
Also, Windows has Ctrl instead of Alt for most actions in Pharo5, that's annoying.
That's annoying also for other shortcuts⦠such as alt+c/alt+v for copy pasting, which is really weird (unless it has been fixed).
And you can put a little paper on top of them for easy reference.
If we could have something like http://community.sparxsystems.com/community-resources/509-81enterprise-archi... for Pharo, using a bunch of function keys, that would be cool.
I have more keyboard keys above F keys :( ⦠for example to instantly launch Pharo :) Peter
Phil
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
So they use F keys, however they are clearly not uniform either, so I don't see the appeal. Not to mention that they will be just as hard to remember.
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key Reference http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/
cheers -ben
Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging.
Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it.
Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the bottom and requires travels all the time.
Phil
On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice
to
have it everywhere by default in some variant...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { StartupAction name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' code: [ GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' ). RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''R'''. RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''P'''. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''I'''. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ] runOnce: true. } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work
better. In
this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said:
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut confusing with restart restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be <philippe.back@gmail.com> wrote: 2)
If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable.
Peter
Cheers, Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are
completely
random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png>
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
Hitting a single key instead of Ctl-Alt-whatever madness.
Hmm. That's a good point. And since the shortcut name takes barely any space it could be presented alongside the label.
Proceed[F5] or Into[6]
On the other hand, for me personally at least... pressing ctrl+shift takes very little hand movement, while F keys are quite far. But then again, I'm using Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keybord 4000 which is _really_ big, on laptop it may not be such an issue.
Microsoft Digital Media Pro Keyboard in this office. Not exactly small. Still not the Logitech G19 for gaming that I have on another machine. But there is space for a small card on top of the Fx keys. F5 for step through, F6 for step over, F7 for step into, F8 for run to here would be a nice 4 key setup. Add F9 for create.
Note that most people have some Java background so, F5->F8 makes a lot of sense.
Also, Windows has Ctrl instead of Alt for most actions in Pharo5, that's annoying.
That's annoying also for other shortcuts⦠such as alt+c/alt+v for copy pasting, which is really weird (unless it has been fixed).
Yes but once used to it, both should work.
And you can put a little paper on top of them for easy reference.
If we could have something like http://community.sparxsystems.com/community-resources/509-81enterprise-archi... for Pharo, using a bunch of function keys, that would be cool.
I have more keyboard keys above F keys :( ⦠for example to instantly launch Pharo :)
:)
Peter
Phil
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
So they use F keys, however they are clearly not uniform either, so I don't see the appeal. Not to mention that they will be just as hard to remember.
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key Reference http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/
cheers -ben
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be <philippe.back@gmail.com> wrote:
Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging.
Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it.
Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the bottom and requires travels all the time.
Phil
On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice
to
have it everywhere by default in some variant...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { StartupAction name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' code: [ GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' ). RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''R'''. RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''P'''. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''I'''. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ] runOnce: true. } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work
better. In
this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said:
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut confusing with restart restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point 2)
If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable.
Peter
Cheers, Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are
completely
random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png>
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
The most important thing is allow the user to reassign them. e.g. when mainly a C programmer on Windows I used Visual Studio and remapped Eclipse keys to those when I worked in other languages. Now I am on a Mac and so remapping to Xcode or as there is no standard set of keys I find the keys above the numeric pad the easieest to use and reconfigure Xcode, Eclipse and Intellij (and emacs) to use these. Mark On 17/04/2016 20:22, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, phil@highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> <phil@highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be>> wrote:
Hitting a single key instead of Ctl-Alt-whatever madness.
Hmm. That's a good point. And since the shortcut name takes barely any space it could be presented alongside the label.
Proceed[F5] or Into[6]
On the other hand, for me personally at least... pressing ctrl+shift takes very little hand movement, while F keys are quite far. But then again, I'm using Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keybord 4000 which is _really_ big, on laptop it may not be such an issue.
Microsoft Digital Media Pro Keyboard in this office. Not exactly small. Still not the Logitech G19 for gaming that I have on another machine. But there is space for a small card on top of the Fx keys.
F5 for step through, F6 for step over, F7 for step into, F8 for run to here would be a nice 4 key setup. Add F9 for create.
Note that most people have some Java background so, F5->F8 makes a lot of sense.
Also, Windows has Ctrl instead of Alt for most actions in Pharo5, that's annoying.
That's annoying also for other shortcuts⦠such as alt+c/alt+v for copy pasting, which is really weird (unless it has been fixed).
Yes but once used to it, both should work.
And you can put a little paper on top of them for easy reference.
If we could have something like http://community.sparxsystems.com/community-resources/509-81enterprise-archi... for Pharo, using a bunch of function keys, that would be cool.
I have more keyboard keys above F keys :( ⦠for example to instantly launch Pharo :)
:)
Peter
Phil
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote:
So they use F keys, however they are clearly not uniform either, so I don't see the appeal. Not to mention that they will be just as hard to remember.
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> wrote:
Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key Reference http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/
cheers -ben
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be <mailto:philippe.back@highoctane.be> <philippe.back@gmail.com <mailto:philippe.back@gmail.com>> wrote: > Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging. > > Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it. > > Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the bottom > and requires travels all the time. > > Phil > > On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice to >> have it everywhere by default in some variant... >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { >> StartupAction >> name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' >> code: [ >> GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( >> (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode >> copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' >> with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' >> ). >> RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText >> ^ ''R'''. >> RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel >> ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. >> ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText >> ^ ''P'''. >> ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel >> ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. >> StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText >> ^ ''I'''. >> StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel >> ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. >> StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel >> ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. >> StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel >> ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. >> ] >> runOnce: true. >> } >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a >>>> concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work better. In >>>> this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already >>>> defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears). >>> >>> >>> As I've said: >>> >>> 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) >>> 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is >>> underlined? >>> >>> as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into >>> >>> proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut >>> confusing with restart >>> restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more >>> important here... indent is just convenience >>> into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's >>> important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point 2) >>> >>> If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, >>> although first letter is always preferable. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> > On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hi, >>>> > >>>> > I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely >>>> > random. >>>> > >>>> > Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible? >>>> > >>>> > For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... >>>> > but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I >>>> > cannot remember random shortcuts. >>>> > >>>> > <debugger.png> >>>> > >>>> > 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux >>>> > btw) >>>> > 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters >>>> > is underlined? >>>> > >>>> > Peter >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> >>>> www.feenk.com <http://www.feenk.com> >>>> >>>> "Value is always contextual." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>
-- Mark
Hi, Indeed. This somehow slipped from the todo list. Could you please open an issue for making the shortcuts settable and mark it for Pharo 5? Cheers, Doru
On Apr 17, 2016, at 10:32 PM, Mark Bestley <st@bestley.co.uk> wrote:
The most important thing is allow the user to reassign them.
e.g. when mainly a C programmer on Windows I used Visual Studio and remapped Eclipse keys to those when I worked in other languages.
Now I am on a Mac and so remapping to Xcode or as there is no standard set of keys I find the keys above the numeric pad the easieest to use and reconfigure Xcode, Eclipse and Intellij (and emacs) to use these.
Mark
On 17/04/2016 20:22, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, phil@highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> <phil@highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be>> wrote:
Hitting a single key instead of Ctl-Alt-whatever madness.
Hmm. That's a good point. And since the shortcut name takes barely any space it could be presented alongside the label.
Proceed[F5] or Into[6]
On the other hand, for me personally at least... pressing ctrl+shift takes very little hand movement, while F keys are quite far. But then again, I'm using Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keybord 4000 which is _really_ big, on laptop it may not be such an issue.
Microsoft Digital Media Pro Keyboard in this office. Not exactly small. Still not the Logitech G19 for gaming that I have on another machine. But there is space for a small card on top of the Fx keys.
F5 for step through, F6 for step over, F7 for step into, F8 for run to here would be a nice 4 key setup. Add F9 for create.
Note that most people have some Java background so, F5->F8 makes a lot of sense.
Also, Windows has Ctrl instead of Alt for most actions in Pharo5, that's annoying.
That's annoying also for other shortcuts⦠such as alt+c/alt+v for copy pasting, which is really weird (unless it has been fixed).
Yes but once used to it, both should work.
And you can put a little paper on top of them for easy reference.
If we could have something like http://community.sparxsystems.com/community-resources/509-81enterprise-archi... for Pharo, using a bunch of function keys, that would be cool.
I have more keyboard keys above F keys :( ⦠for example to instantly launch Pharo :)
:)
Peter
Phil
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote:
So they use F keys, however they are clearly not uniform either, so I don't see the appeal. Not to mention that they will be just as hard to remember.
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> wrote:
Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key Reference http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/
cheers -ben
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be <mailto:philippe.back@highoctane.be> <philippe.back@gmail.com <mailto:philippe.back@gmail.com>> wrote: > Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging. > > Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it. > > Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the bottom > and requires travels all the time. > > Phil > > On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice to >> have it everywhere by default in some variant... >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { >> StartupAction >> name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' >> code: [ >> GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( >> (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode >> copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' >> with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' >> ). >> RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText >> ^ ''R'''. >> RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel >> ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. >> ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText >> ^ ''P'''. >> ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel >> ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. >> StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText >> ^ ''I'''. >> StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel >> ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. >> StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel >> ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. >> StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel >> ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. >> ] >> runOnce: true. >> } >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a >>>> concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work better. In >>>> this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already >>>> defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears). >>> >>> >>> As I've said: >>> >>> 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) >>> 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is >>> underlined? >>> >>> as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into >>> >>> proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut >>> confusing with restart >>> restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more >>> important here... indent is just convenience >>> into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's >>> important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point 2) >>> >>> If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, >>> although first letter is always preferable. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> > On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hi, >>>> > >>>> > I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely >>>> > random. >>>> > >>>> > Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible? >>>> > >>>> > For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... >>>> > but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I >>>> > cannot remember random shortcuts. >>>> > >>>> > <debugger.png> >>>> > >>>> > 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux >>>> > btw) >>>> > 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters >>>> > is underlined? >>>> > >>>> > Peter >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> >>>> www.feenk.com <http://www.feenk.com> >>>> >>>> "Value is always contextual." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>
-- Mark
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Problem solving should be focused on describing the problem in a way that makes the solution obvious."
Added as #10820 but for Pharo6 as per other requests Mark On 18/04/2016 10:30, Tudor Girba wrote:
Hi,
Indeed. This somehow slipped from the todo list. Could you please open an issue for making the shortcuts settable and mark it for Pharo 5?
Cheers, Doru
On Apr 17, 2016, at 10:32 PM, Mark Bestley <st@bestley.co.uk> wrote:
The most important thing is allow the user to reassign them.
e.g. when mainly a C programmer on Windows I used Visual Studio and remapped Eclipse keys to those when I worked in other languages.
Now I am on a Mac and so remapping to Xcode or as there is no standard set of keys I find the keys above the numeric pad the easieest to use and reconfigure Xcode, Eclipse and Intellij (and emacs) to use these.
Mark
On 17/04/2016 20:22, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 8:50 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 8:17 PM, phil@highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> <phil@highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be>> wrote:
Hitting a single key instead of Ctl-Alt-whatever madness.
-- Mark
This F keys suck! Stef Le 17/4/16 18:00, Ben Coman a écrit :
Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key Reference http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/
cheers -ben
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be <philippe.back@gmail.com> wrote:
Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging.
Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it.
Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the bottom and requires travels all the time.
Phil
On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice to have it everywhere by default in some variant...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { StartupAction name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' code: [ GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' ). RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''R'''. RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''P'''. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''I'''. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ] runOnce: true. } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work better. In this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said:
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut confusing with restart restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point 2)
If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable.
Peter
Cheers, Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png>
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:52 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
This F keys suck!
+1. How do you remember which F key does what in the Debugger? F10 - fix my code to be a perfect 10??
Stef
Le 17/4/16 18:00, Ben Coman a écrit :
Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key
Reference http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/
cheers -ben
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be <philippe.back@gmail.com> wrote:
Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging.
Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it.
Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the bottom and requires travels all the time.
Phil
On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice to have it everywhere by default in some variant...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { StartupAction name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' code: [ GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' ). RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''R'''. RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''P'''. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''I'''. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ] runOnce: true. } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a
concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work better. In this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said:
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut confusing with restart restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point 2)
If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable.
Peter
Cheers,
Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png>
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:52 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
This F keys suck!
+1. How do you remember which F key does what in the Debugger? F10 -
fix my code to be a perfect 10??
Stef
Le 17/4/16 18:00, Ben Coman a écrit :
Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key
Reference
http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/
cheers -ben
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be <philippe.back@gmail.com> wrote:
Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging.
Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it.
Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the
bottom
and requires travels all the time.
Phil
On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice
to
have it everywhere by default in some variant...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { StartupAction name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' code: [ GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' ). RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''R'''. RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''P'''. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''I'''. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ] runOnce: true. } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work
better. In
this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said:
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut confusing with restart restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point
Yeah, sure. Visual Studio is standardized on that an millions of people are using it. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa239052%28v=vs.60%29.aspx?f=255&MS... Same for PhpStorm, WebStorm, and Intellij IDEA, also used by millions. Talk about keymaps: check this --> https://www.jetbrains.com/help/phpstorm/2016.1/function-keys.html?origin=old... (note the dropdown on the top right). Let's talk Chrome devtools (just a litte user base of millions as well): F8 -> Run F10 -> Step over F11 -> Step into Let's talk Firefox (okay, a tad less users) https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Debugger/Keyboard_shortcuts Resume execution when at a breakpoint F8 Step over F10 Step into F11 Step out Shift + F11 CodeBlocks IDE http://wiki.codeblocks.org/index.php/Keyboard_Shortcuts Debug Function Shortcut Key Debug F8 Continue debugging Ctrl + F7 Step over a code block F7 Step into a code block Shift + F7 Step out of a code block Ctrl + Shift + F7 Toggle breakpoint F5 Run to cursor F4 Previous error Alt + F1 Next error Alt + F2 Vim plugins for debugging Ruby: You may find useful to override default shortcut commands by F5-F8 shortcuts. Add these to your .vimrc: map <F7> :call g:RubyDebugger.step()<CR> map <F5> :call g:RubyDebugger.next()<CR> map <F8> :call g:RubyDebugger.continue()<CR> Even SAP uses F keys for that. f5->step by step f6->to skip the statements like perform,module,.. f7->to come out from the form,module,.. f8->run upto the cursor or run completely R studio: Toggle Breakpoint Shift+F9 Execute Next Line F10 Step Into Function Shift+F4 Finish Function/Loop Shift+F6 Continue Shift+F5 Stop Debugging Shift+F8 Delphi: F4 Run program to current cursor position F5 Toggle breakpoint F7 Debugger step into Shift - F7 Trace into next source line F8 Debugger step over Shift - F8 Run until return F9 Run program under debugger ActiveState Komodo IDE: Step In F11 Step Over F10 Step Out Shift-F11 Start F5 CodeLite Start/continue debugger F5 Step Into F11 Next F10 Step Out Shift-F11 Dolphin X6 Go F5 Step Into F11 Step Over F10 Step Out Shift-F11 Run to cursor Ctl-F10 Run Ctl-F5 Restart Ctl-Shift-F5 Toad debugger for PL/SQL F11 Run (continue execution) F12 Run to cursor SHIFT+F5 Set or delete a breakpoint on the current line SHIFT+F7 Trace into SHIFT+F8 Step over SHIFT+F10 Trace out Visualworks debugger Step Into: F5 Step: F6 Step Over: F7 Run: F9 World+dog uses F keys for debugging. But Pharo? Nah! We have a great debugger? Sure let's hide it under absconse shortcuts that only we know. New debugger is nicer looking but more painful to use and I never used any shortcut on it as they aren't those standard things. Anyway, I should be able to hack that the way I want, so, no real issue. Remember, first impressions count. This is a key one if we put "programming in the debugger" as a strong point of the environment. Ok on a Mac, F keys do involve a 'Fn' press because they are hidden under volume, brightness etc. So, on a Mac, that is more sucky than on Unix or Windows. Sure. There's a system preference to switch to normal. I'll get a hotmilk and a walk now. Need to calm down. "Functions keys do suck" What ?! Phil 2)
If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable.
Peter
Cheers, Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are
completely
random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png>
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
We can have both, or we can make it super easy to enable or customise them. Phil has a point: it seems there is some standard out there.
On 19 Apr 2016, at 22:49, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:52 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
This F keys suck!
+1. How do you remember which F key does what in the Debugger? F10 - fix my code to be a perfect 10??
Yeah, sure.
Visual Studio is standardized on that an millions of people are using it. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa239052%28v=vs.60%29.aspx?f=255&MS...
Same for PhpStorm, WebStorm, and Intellij IDEA, also used by millions. Talk about keymaps: check this --> https://www.jetbrains.com/help/phpstorm/2016.1/function-keys.html?origin=old... (note the dropdown on the top right).
Let's talk Chrome devtools (just a litte user base of millions as well):
F8 -> Run F10 -> Step over F11 -> Step into
Let's talk Firefox (okay, a tad less users)
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Debugger/Keyboard_shortcuts
Resume execution when at a breakpoint F8 Step over F10 Step into F11 Step out Shift + F11
CodeBlocks IDE http://wiki.codeblocks.org/index.php/Keyboard_Shortcuts
Debug
Function Shortcut Key Debug F8 Continue debugging Ctrl + F7 Step over a code block F7 Step into a code block Shift + F7 Step out of a code block Ctrl + Shift + F7 Toggle breakpoint F5 Run to cursor F4 Previous error Alt + F1 Next error Alt + F2
Vim plugins for debugging Ruby:
You may find useful to override default shortcut commands by F5-F8 shortcuts. Add these to your .vimrc:
map <F7> :call g:RubyDebugger.step()<CR> map <F5> :call g:RubyDebugger.next()<CR> map <F8> :call g:RubyDebugger.continue()<CR>
Even SAP uses F keys for that.
f5->step by step f6->to skip the statements like perform,module,.. f7->to come out from the form,module,.. f8->run upto the cursor or run completely
R studio:
Toggle Breakpoint Shift+F9 Execute Next Line F10 Step Into Function Shift+F4 Finish Function/Loop Shift+F6 Continue Shift+F5 Stop Debugging Shift+F8
Delphi:
F4 Run program to current cursor position F5 Toggle breakpoint F7 Debugger step into Shift - F7 Trace into next source line F8 Debugger step over Shift - F8 Run until return F9 Run program under debugger
ActiveState Komodo IDE:
Step In F11 Step Over F10 Step Out Shift-F11 Start F5
CodeLite
Start/continue debugger F5 Step Into F11 Next F10 Step Out Shift-F11
Dolphin X6
Go F5 Step Into F11 Step Over F10 Step Out Shift-F11 Run to cursor Ctl-F10 Run Ctl-F5 Restart Ctl-Shift-F5
Toad debugger for PL/SQL
F11 Run (continue execution) F12 Run to cursor SHIFT+F5 Set or delete a breakpoint on the current line SHIFT+F7 Trace into SHIFT+F8 Step over SHIFT+F10 Trace out
Visualworks debugger
Step Into: F5 Step: F6 Step Over: F7 Run: F9
World+dog uses F keys for debugging.
But Pharo? Nah!
We have a great debugger? Sure let's hide it under absconse shortcuts that only we know.
New debugger is nicer looking but more painful to use and I never used any shortcut on it as they aren't those standard things.
Anyway, I should be able to hack that the way I want, so, no real issue.
Remember, first impressions count. This is a key one if we put "programming in the debugger" as a strong point of the environment.
Ok on a Mac, F keys do involve a 'Fn' press because they are hidden under volume, brightness etc. So, on a Mac, that is more sucky than on Unix or Windows. Sure. There's a system preference to switch to normal.
I'll get a hotmilk and a walk now. Need to calm down. "Functions keys do suck" What ?!
Phil
Stef
Le 17/4/16 18:00, Ben Coman a écrit :
Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key Reference http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/
cheers -ben
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be <philippe.back@gmail.com> wrote:
Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging.
Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it.
Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the bottom and requires travels all the time.
Phil
On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice to have it everywhere by default in some variant...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { StartupAction name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' code: [ GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' ). RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''R'''. RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''P'''. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''I'''. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ] runOnce: true. } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work better. In this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said:
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut confusing with restart restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point 2)
If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable.
Peter
Cheers, Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png>
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
We already agreed to have the shortcuts externalized and we will try to do for Pharo 5. Please letâs close this topic and move on. Doru
On Apr 19, 2016, at 10:57 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
We can have both, or we can make it super easy to enable or customise them.
Phil has a point: it seems there is some standard out there.
On 19 Apr 2016, at 22:49, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:52 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
This F keys suck!
+1. How do you remember which F key does what in the Debugger? F10 - fix my code to be a perfect 10??
Yeah, sure.
Visual Studio is standardized on that an millions of people are using it. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa239052%28v=vs.60%29.aspx?f=255&MS...
Same for PhpStorm, WebStorm, and Intellij IDEA, also used by millions. Talk about keymaps: check this --> https://www.jetbrains.com/help/phpstorm/2016.1/function-keys.html?origin=old... (note the dropdown on the top right).
Let's talk Chrome devtools (just a litte user base of millions as well):
F8 -> Run F10 -> Step over F11 -> Step into
Let's talk Firefox (okay, a tad less users)
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Debugger/Keyboard_shortcuts
Resume execution when at a breakpoint F8 Step over F10 Step into F11 Step out Shift + F11
CodeBlocks IDE http://wiki.codeblocks.org/index.php/Keyboard_Shortcuts
Debug
Function Shortcut Key Debug F8 Continue debugging Ctrl + F7 Step over a code block F7 Step into a code block Shift + F7 Step out of a code block Ctrl + Shift + F7 Toggle breakpoint F5 Run to cursor F4 Previous error Alt + F1 Next error Alt + F2
Vim plugins for debugging Ruby:
You may find useful to override default shortcut commands by F5-F8 shortcuts. Add these to your .vimrc:
map <F7> :call g:RubyDebugger.step()<CR> map <F5> :call g:RubyDebugger.next()<CR> map <F8> :call g:RubyDebugger.continue()<CR>
Even SAP uses F keys for that.
f5->step by step f6->to skip the statements like perform,module,.. f7->to come out from the form,module,.. f8->run upto the cursor or run completely
R studio:
Toggle Breakpoint Shift+F9 Execute Next Line F10 Step Into Function Shift+F4 Finish Function/Loop Shift+F6 Continue Shift+F5 Stop Debugging Shift+F8
Delphi:
F4 Run program to current cursor position F5 Toggle breakpoint F7 Debugger step into Shift - F7 Trace into next source line F8 Debugger step over Shift - F8 Run until return F9 Run program under debugger
ActiveState Komodo IDE:
Step In F11 Step Over F10 Step Out Shift-F11 Start F5
CodeLite
Start/continue debugger F5 Step Into F11 Next F10 Step Out Shift-F11
Dolphin X6
Go F5 Step Into F11 Step Over F10 Step Out Shift-F11 Run to cursor Ctl-F10 Run Ctl-F5 Restart Ctl-Shift-F5
Toad debugger for PL/SQL
F11 Run (continue execution) F12 Run to cursor SHIFT+F5 Set or delete a breakpoint on the current line SHIFT+F7 Trace into SHIFT+F8 Step over SHIFT+F10 Trace out
Visualworks debugger
Step Into: F5 Step: F6 Step Over: F7 Run: F9
World+dog uses F keys for debugging.
But Pharo? Nah!
We have a great debugger? Sure let's hide it under absconse shortcuts that only we know.
New debugger is nicer looking but more painful to use and I never used any shortcut on it as they aren't those standard things.
Anyway, I should be able to hack that the way I want, so, no real issue.
Remember, first impressions count. This is a key one if we put "programming in the debugger" as a strong point of the environment.
Ok on a Mac, F keys do involve a 'Fn' press because they are hidden under volume, brightness etc. So, on a Mac, that is more sucky than on Unix or Windows. Sure. There's a system preference to switch to normal.
I'll get a hotmilk and a walk now. Need to calm down. "Functions keys do suck" What ?!
Phil
Stef
Le 17/4/16 18:00, Ben Coman a écrit :
Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key Reference http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/
cheers -ben
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be <philippe.back@gmail.com> wrote:
Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging.
Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it.
Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the bottom and requires travels all the time.
Phil
On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice to have it everywhere by default in some variant...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { StartupAction name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' code: [ GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' ). RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''R'''. RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''P'''. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''I'''. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ] runOnce: true. } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work better. In this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said:
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut confusing with restart restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point 2)
If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable.
Peter
Cheers, Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png>
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Innovation comes in the least expected form. That is, if it is expected, it already happened."
2016-04-19 17:49 GMT-03:00 phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be>:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com> wrote:
But Pharo? Nah! We have a great debugger? Sure let's hide it under absconse shortcuts that only we know.
New debugger is nicer looking but more painful to use and I never used any shortcut on it as they aren't those standard things.
Anyway, I should be able to hack that the way I want, so, no real issue.
Remember, first impressions count. This is a key one if we put "programming in the debugger" as a strong point of the environment.
+1 Thanks, I totally share you view on this. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo
May be it works for millions people.
So we can add EXTRA bindings to be compatible for them but I have
something else to do that to learn
and use keys that can be removed from my keyboard.
For me there are to control volume output and nothing else.
Stef
Le 19/4/16 à 22:49, phil@highoctane.be a écrit :
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Eliot Miranda
> <eliot.miranda@gmail.com <mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:52 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr
> <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote:
> >>
> >> This F keys suck!
> >
> >
> > +1. How do you remember which F key does what in the Debugger? F10
> - fix my code to be a perfect 10??
> >
> Yeah, sure.
>
> Visual Studio is standardized on that an millions of people are using it.
> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa239052%28v=vs.60%29.aspx?f=255&MSPPError=-2147217396
>
> Same for PhpStorm, WebStorm, and Intellij IDEA, also used by millions.
> Talk about keymaps: check this -->
> https://www.jetbrains.com/help/phpstorm/2016.1/function-keys.html?origin=old_help
> (note the dropdown on the top right).
>
> Let's talk Chrome devtools (just a litte user base of millions as well):
>
> F8 -> Run
> F10 -> Step over
> F11 -> Step into
>
> Let's talk Firefox (okay, a tad less users)
>
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Debugger/Keyboard_shortcuts
>
> Resume execution when at a breakpoint F8
> Step over F10
> Step into F11
> Step out Shift + F11
>
> CodeBlocks IDE
> http://wiki.codeblocks.org/index.php/Keyboard_Shortcuts
>
> Debug
>
> Function Shortcut Key
> Debug F8
> Continue debugging Ctrl + F7
> Step over a code block F7
> Step into a code block Shift + F7
> Step out of a code block Ctrl + Shift + F7
> Toggle breakpoint F5
> Run to cursor F4
> Previous error Alt + F1
> Next error Alt + F2
>
> Vim plugins for debugging Ruby:
>
> You may find useful to override default shortcut commands by F5-F8
> shortcuts. Add these to your .vimrc:
>
> map <F7> :call g:RubyDebugger.step()<CR>
> map <F5> :call g:RubyDebugger.next()<CR>
> map <F8> :call g:RubyDebugger.continue()<CR>
>
> Even SAP uses F keys for that.
>
>
> f5->step by step
> f6->to skip the statements like perform,module,..
> f7->to come out from the form,module,..
> f8->run upto the cursor or run completely
>
> R studio:
>
> Toggle Breakpoint Shift+F9
> Execute Next Line F10
> Step Into Function Shift+F4
> Finish Function/Loop Shift+F6
> Continue Shift+F5
> Stop Debugging Shift+F8
>
>
> Delphi:
>
> F4 Run program to current cursor position
> F5 Toggle breakpoint
> F7 Debugger step into
> Shift - F7 Trace into next source line
> F8 Debugger step over
> Shift - F8 Run until return
> F9 Run program under debugger
>
>
> ActiveState Komodo IDE:
>
> Step In F11
> Step Over F10
> Step Out Shift-F11
> Start F5
>
> CodeLite
>
> Start/continue debugger F5
> Step Into F11
> Next F10
> Step Out Shift-F11
>
> Dolphin X6
>
> Go F5
> Step Into F11
> Step Over F10
> Step Out Shift-F11
> Run to cursor Ctl-F10
> Run Ctl-F5
> Restart Ctl-Shift-F5
>
> Toad debugger for PL/SQL
>
> F11
> Run (continue execution)
> F12
> Run to cursor
> SHIFT+F5
> Set or delete a breakpoint on the current line
> SHIFT+F7
> Trace into
> SHIFT+F8
> Step over
> SHIFT+F10
> Trace out
>
> Visualworks debugger
>
> Step Into: F5
> Step: F6
> Step Over: F7
> Run: F9
>
> World+dog uses F keys for debugging.
>
> But Pharo? Nah!
>
> We have a great debugger? Sure let's hide it under absconse shortcuts
> that only we know.
>
> New debugger is nicer looking but more painful to use and I never used
> any shortcut on it as they aren't those standard things.
>
> Anyway, I should be able to hack that the way I want, so, no real issue.
>
> Remember, first impressions count.
> This is a key one if we put "programming in the debugger" as a strong
> point of the environment.
>
> Ok on a Mac, F keys do involve a 'Fn' press because they are hidden
> under volume, brightness etc.
> So, on a Mac, that is more sucky than on Unix or Windows. Sure.
> There's a system preference to switch to normal.
>
> I'll get a hotmilk and a walk now. Need to calm down. "Functions keys
> do suck" What ?!
>
> Phil
>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> Stef
> >>
> >> Le 17/4/16 18:00, Ben Coman a écrit :
> >>
> >>> Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key
> Reference
> >>> http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/
> >>>
> >>> cheers -ben
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be
> <mailto:philippe.back@highoctane.be>
> >>> <philippe.back@gmail.com <mailto:philippe.back@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging.
> >>>>
> >>>> Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at
> the bottom
> >>>> and requires travels all the time.
> >>>>
> >>>> Phil
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com
> <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be
> nice to
> >>>>> have it everywhere by default in some variant...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>> StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: {
> >>>>> StartupAction
> >>>>> name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts'
> >>>>> code: [
> >>>>> GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: (
> >>>>> (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode
> >>>>> copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title'
> >>>>> with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString'
> >>>>> ).
> >>>>> RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText
> >>>>> ^ ''R'''.
> >>>>> RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel
> >>>>> ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from:
> 1 to: 1'.
> >>>>> ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText
> >>>>> ^ ''P'''.
> >>>>> ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel
> >>>>> ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from:
> 1 to: 1'.
> >>>>> StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText
> >>>>> ^ ''I'''.
> >>>>> StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel
> >>>>> ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1
> to: 1'.
> >>>>> StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel
> >>>>> ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1
> to: 1'.
> >>>>> StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel
> >>>>> ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from:
> 1 to: 1'.
> >>>>> ]
> >>>>> runOnce: true.
> >>>>> }
> >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com
> <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a
> >>>>>>> concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work
> better. In
> >>>>>>> this process, please take into account all keybindings that
> are already
> >>>>>>> defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it
> appears).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As I've said:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using
> linux btw)
> >>>>>> 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the
> letters is
> >>>>>> underlined?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has
> shortcut
> >>>>>> confusing with restart
> >>>>>> restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is
> more
> >>>>>> important here... indent is just convenience
> >>>>>> into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's
> >>>>>> important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n
> (point 2)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as
> important,
> >>>>>> although first letter is always preferable.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Peter
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>> Doru
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com
> <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are
> completely
> >>>>>>>> random.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least
> see them...
> >>>>>>>> but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look
> at them since I
> >>>>>>>> cannot remember random shortcuts.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> <debugger.png>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using
> linux
> >>>>>>>> btw)
> >>>>>>>> 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the
> letters
> >>>>>>>> is underlined?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Peter
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com>
> >>>>>>> www.feenk.com <http://www.feenk.com>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Value is always contextual."
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > _,,,^..^,,,_
> > best, Eliot
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:52 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
This F keys suck!
+1. How do you remember which F key does what in the Debugger? F10 - fix my code to be a perfect 10??
With a little tooltip shown when hovering buttons. The same way we get a clue about other shortcuts. Alt-O-P opening Monticello. How do I know that one? By looking. How do you remember? By doing it repeatedly. I am speaking about the fact that we use super non standard debugging shortcuts. Remembering is another thing. Pharo makes it unnecessary hard. See other mail. Phil
Stef
Le 17/4/16 18:00, Ben Coman a écrit :
Interesting. A search turned up... Quick Tip Debugger Shortcut Key
Reference http://www.mularien.com/blog/category/eclipse/
cheers -ben
On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 11:15 PM, philippe.back@highoctane.be <philippe.back@gmail.com> wrote:
Most of the world IDE use function keys for debugging.
Additional benefit: easier for newcomers to use it.
Having the buttons on the top is a pain as the code pane is at the bottom and requires travels all the time.
Phil
On Apr 17, 2016 4:57 PM, "Peter Uhnák" <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I've added a startup script for myself... but it would be nice to have it everywhere by default in some variant...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: { StartupAction name: 'Change debugger labels & shortcuts' code: [ GLMMorphicActionRenderer compile: ( (GLMMorphicActionRenderer>>#render:) sourceCode copyReplaceAll: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title' with: 'setBalloonText: (anAction title asString' ). RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''R'''. RestartDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Restart'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''P'''. ResumeDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Proceed'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultKeyText ^ ''I'''. StepIntoDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Into'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepOverDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Over'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. StepThroughDebugAction compile: 'defaultLabel ^ ''Through'' asText addAttribute: TextEmphasis underlined from: 1 to: 1'. ] runOnce: true. } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Letâs turn this energy into something positive. Please propose a
concrete set of default keybindings that you think would work better. In this process, please take into account all keybindings that are already defined in the code editor (it might not be so easy as it appears).
As I've said:
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
as for the shortcuts themselves, problem is proceed, restart & into
proceed: ctrl+shift+p is not taken, so I don't see why it has shortcut confusing with restart restart: ctrl+shift+r indents, but I'd argue that uniformity is more important here... indent is just convenience into: ctrl+shift+i is taken (I've never used it, but it maybe it's important), but we can still use ctrl+shift+n and underline n (point 2)
If points 1 & 2 are implemented, then the letter is not as important, although first letter is always preferable.
Peter
Cheers,
Doru
On Apr 16, 2016, at 8:37 PM, Peter Uhnák <i.uhnak@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<debugger.png>
1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com
"Value is always contextual."
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
Would be nice to have Ctrl+ C create Ctrl + P proceed Ctrl + R Restart Ctrl + I into Ctrl + O over Ctrl + T through Stef Le 16/4/16 20:37, Peter Uhnák a écrit :
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
â 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
Hi Stef, This would have been our intention, but unfortunately, we cannot have that because most of these are already taken by other keybindings in the text editor. Doru
On Apr 18, 2016, at 8:54 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
Would be nice to have
Ctrl+ C create Ctrl + P proceed Ctrl + R Restart Ctrl + I into Ctrl + O over Ctrl + T through
Stef
Le 16/4/16 20:37, Peter Uhnák a écrit :
Hi,
I'm getting fed-up with GTDebugger shortcuts since they are completely random.
Can we have them more meaningful and/or somehow visible?
For now I ended up overriding the labels so I can at least see them... but doing this is also stupid, because I still have to look at them since I cannot remember random shortcuts.
<Mail Attachment.png> â 1. can we unify the shift vs ctrl+shift nonsense? (I'm using linux btw) 2. can we use the default shortcuts pattern where one of the letters is underlined?
Peter
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Speaking louder won't make the point worthier."
participants (10)
-
Ben Coman -
Eliot Miranda -
Esteban A. Maringolo -
Mark Bestley -
Peter Uhnák -
phil＠highoctane.be -
philippe.back＠highoctane.be -
stepharo -
Sven Van Caekenberghe -
Tudor Girba