[Pharo-project] Senders and implementors WAS: Pharo apparently slow on linux
I don't know you what I use senders and implementors everytime. Too frecuently. Frecuently enought so that to put them in the first menu and not insidethe "extended search". Don't you rather them to be in the first menu ?? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Adrian Lienhard <adi@netstyle.ch> Date: Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo apparently slow on linux To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr These actions are in the submenu "extended search". HTH, Adrian On Jul 18, 2009, at 15:00 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
They might be (I'll have to use them for a while), though I would still like to see especially the browse command along side of evaluate/inspect/explore in the menus.
Thanks,
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr ] On Behalf Of Adrian Lienhard Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 1:46 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo apparently slow on linux
On Jul 18, 2009, at 08:02 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Laurent,
I will preface this by saying that I have had a fairly intense week with Pharo. I am closing in on a solution to a real problem. I greatly miss Dolphin's Browse-it command, and its F12 and shift-F12 (definitions/references to a typed selector); the message search has its points, but it takes some extra steps to use in comparison to the Dolphin features.
Isn't Ctrl-b (browse selected class name), Ctrl-m (implementors of selector), Ctrl-n (senders of selector), and Ctrl-shift-n (class references) doing the same? I almost never use the message search but always these shortcuts.
Adrian
Back to the topic at hand; let's see if I am following. Start with a core image, run a script that installs what looks like a Pharo web image, makes a few changes to settings in favor of speed, and you get something that you find faster than Pharo?? Did you make the same speed selections in Pharo? If so, one wonders what happened between core and Pharo-dev/web that Lukas did not do to the core image.
Sorry if I'm off base here - it's been a long and very good few days.
Bill
________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr ] On Behalf Of laurent laffont Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:45 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo apparently slow on linux
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr <mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>> wrote: Hi
David shaffer reported to me in fuzzy way that pharo is slow on linux. Dear linux users can you report if you experienced the same and on which machine distributions vm image
please compare the core and the dev (with browser usage)
_______________________________________________
Hi,
machine: core duo 2.0 GHz, 1 GB RAM (White Macbook, 2007) distribution: Archlinux vm: exupery pharo-vm-0.15.1b-linux.zip images: pharo0.1-10373dev09.07.2 and latest Pharo-Core
Pharo-Core: (System Browser) - startup time: instantaneous - navigate randomly in browser: 3% - 8% CPU usage - find class OrderedCollection: ~10% CPU - browse senders of add: time to open 1s, 21% CPU
Pharo-Dev: (Package Browser) - statup time: 3s (cold start 5s) - navigate randomly in browser: 9% - 15% CPU usage - find class OrderedCollection: ~13% CPU - browse senders of add: time to open 19s, 48% CPU
Now I'm using Pharo-Core with Luka's scripts (http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ImageBuildScripts ) as it's far more pleasant to use for me.
Laurent _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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2009/7/18 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com>:
I don't know you what I use senders and implementors everytime. Too frecuently. Frecuently enought so that to put them in the first menu and not insidethe "extended search". Don't you rather them to be in the first menu ??
Why don't you use keyboard shortcuts if you use them often? ALT+m (iMplementors) ALT+n (seNders) -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com>wrote:
2009/7/18 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com>:
I don't know you what I use senders and implementors everytime. Too frecuently. Frecuently enought so that to put them in the first menu and not insidethe "extended search". Don't you rather them to be in the first menu ??
Why don't you use keyboard shortcuts if you use them often? ALT+m (iMplementors) ALT+n (seNders)
I do that. But I was not thinking in me, but in newbies.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
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On Jul 19, 2009, at 20:05 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote:
2009/7/18 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com>:
I don't know you what I use senders and implementors everytime. Too frecuently. Frecuently enought so that to put them in the first menu and not insidethe "extended search". Don't you rather them to be in the first menu ??
Why don't you use keyboard shortcuts if you use them often? ALT+m (iMplementors) ALT+n (seNders)
I do that. But I was not thinking in me, but in newbies.
I think it would be better to document these shortcuts (e.g., as a FAQ) instead of cluttering the menus. Adrian
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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Documentation is certainly a good thing, but I have been trying to adapt my behavior to take advantage of these shortcuts, and I notice two things: (1) deciding between m/n takes _some_ thought; (2) it is common to be using the mouse to move around among browsers and a workspace or two, at which point I have to move to the keyboard, think up the selector, and then get the benefit. In an ideal world, I would like to see the menus include these commands. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Adrian Lienhard Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 1:08 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Senders and implementors WAS: Pharo apparently slow on linux On Jul 19, 2009, at 20:05 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote:
2009/7/18 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com>:
I don't know you what I use senders and implementors everytime. Too frecuently. Frecuently enought so that to put them in the first menu and not insidethe "extended search". Don't you rather them to be in the first menu ??
Why don't you use keyboard shortcuts if you use them often? ALT+m (iMplementors) ALT+n (seNders)
I do that. But I was not thinking in me, but in newbies.
I think it would be better to document these shortcuts (e.g., as a FAQ) instead of cluttering the menus. Adrian
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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On Jul 19, 2009, at 20:14 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Documentation is certainly a good thing, but I have been trying to adapt my behavior to take advantage of these shortcuts, and I notice two things: (1) deciding between m/n takes _some_ thought; (2) it is common to be using the mouse to move around among browsers and a workspace or two, at which point I have to move to the keyboard, think up the selector, and then get the benefit.
In an ideal world, I would like to see the menus include these commands.
But they are included in the menu -- just not at the top level (see my previous mail). If we start to add more stuff at the top ('tally it' and 'watch it' are already questionable in my opinion), then we end up again with unusable menus like those of Squeak. Adrian
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr ] On Behalf Of Adrian Lienhard Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 1:08 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Senders and implementors WAS: Pharo apparently slow on linux
On Jul 19, 2009, at 20:05 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote:
2009/7/18 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com>:
I don't know you what I use senders and implementors everytime. Too frecuently. Frecuently enought so that to put them in the first menu and not insidethe "extended search". Don't you rather them to be in the first menu ??
Why don't you use keyboard shortcuts if you use them often? ALT+m (iMplementors) ALT+n (seNders)
I do that. But I was not thinking in me, but in newbies.
I think it would be better to document these shortcuts (e.g., as a FAQ) instead of cluttering the menus.
Adrian
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
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_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi@netstyle.ch> wrote:
On Jul 19, 2009, at 20:14 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Documentation is certainly a good thing, but I have been trying to adapt my behavior to take advantage of these shortcuts, and I notice two things: (1) deciding between m/n takes _some_ thought; (2) it is common to be using the mouse to move around among browsers and a workspace or two, at which point I have to move to the keyboard, think up the selector, and then get the benefit.
In an ideal world, I would like to see the menus include these commands.
But they are included in the menu -- just not at the top level (see my previous mail). If we start to add more stuff at the top ('tally it' and 'watch it' are already questionable in my opinion), then we end up again with unusable menus like those of Squeak.
Yes, you are right and no one of us want that. I only think implementors and senders were used far more than the others like "tall it", "watch it", etc
Adrian
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:
pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr
] On Behalf Of Adrian Lienhard Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 1:08 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Senders and implementors WAS: Pharo apparently slow on linux
On Jul 19, 2009, at 20:05 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote:
2009/7/18 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com>:
I don't know you what I use senders and implementors everytime. Too frecuently. Frecuently enought so that to put them in the first menu and not insidethe "extended search". Don't you rather them to be in the first menu ??
Why don't you use keyboard shortcuts if you use them often? ALT+m (iMplementors) ALT+n (seNders)
I do that. But I was not thinking in me, but in newbies.
I think it would be better to document these shortcuts (e.g., as a FAQ) instead of cluttering the menus.
Adrian
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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+1 ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 2:58 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Senders and implementors WAS: Pharo apparently slow on linux On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi@netstyle.ch<mailto:adi@netstyle.ch>> wrote: On Jul 19, 2009, at 20:14 , Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Documentation is certainly a good thing, but I have been trying to adapt my behavior to take advantage of these shortcuts, and I notice two things: (1) deciding between m/n takes _some_ thought; (2) it is common to be using the mouse to move around among browsers and a workspace or two, at which point I have to move to the keyboard, think up the selector, and then get the benefit.
In an ideal world, I would like to see the menus include these commands.
But they are included in the menu -- just not at the top level (see my previous mail). If we start to add more stuff at the top ('tally it' and 'watch it' are already questionable in my opinion), then we end up again with unusable menus like those of Squeak. Yes, you are right and no one of us want that. I only think implementors and senders were used far more than the others like "tall it", "watch it", etc Adrian
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> ] On Behalf Of Adrian Lienhard Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 1:08 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Senders and implementors WAS: Pharo apparently slow on linux
On Jul 19, 2009, at 20:05 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com<mailto:damien.cassou@gmail.com>
wrote:
2009/7/18 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com<mailto:marianopeck@gmail.com>>:
I don't know you what I use senders and implementors everytime. Too frecuently. Frecuently enought so that to put them in the first menu and not insidethe "extended search". Don't you rather them to be in the first menu ??
Why don't you use keyboard shortcuts if you use them often? ALT+m (iMplementors) ALT+n (seNders)
I do that. But I was not thinking in me, but in newbies.
I think it would be better to document these shortcuts (e.g., as a FAQ) instead of cluttering the menus.
Adrian
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
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(1) deciding between m/n takes _some_ thought; I*m*plementors Se*n*ders (2) it is common to be using the mouse to move around among browsers and a workspace or two, at which point I have to move to the keyboard, think up the selector, and then get the benefit.
In an ideal world, I would like to see the menus include these commands.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Adrian Lienhard Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 1:08 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Senders and implementors WAS: Pharo apparently slow on linux
On Jul 19, 2009, at 20:05 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote:
2009/7/18 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com>:
I don't know you what I use senders and implementors everytime. Too frecuently. Frecuently enought so that to put them in the first menu and not insidethe "extended search". Â Don't you rather them to be in the first menu ??
Why don't you use keyboard shortcuts if you use them often? ALT+m (iMplementors) ALT+n (seNders)
I do that. But I was not thinking in me, but in newbies.
I think it would be better to document these shortcuts (e.g., as a FAQ) instead of cluttering the menus.
Adrian
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
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-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
participants (5)
-
Adrian Lienhard -
Damien Cassou -
Lukas Renggli -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Schwab,Wilhelm K