Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar)
Here's the thing that gets my goat: I had already acknowledged it was enough for the list and was signing off further comment when Ben decided he really needed to add his two cents. It is unfortunate he did not spend his change in a positive manner but wished to be negative and critical. I was unwilling to let that go by as an implicit restriction on the substance of my posting, into the future. ...and the thread is twice as long. Not my doing. Some things must be challenged. Do you know what I mean, then? Just say no to intellectual coercion. robert On 12/27/2015 11:33 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
Hi Robert,
I'm glad your found someone on the list to connect to on a spiritual level, but could you please keep your public posts to technical matters, (plus keep signatures short and trim old signatures from quoted responses - which unfortunately threaded email clients like gmail often hide)
cheers -ben
On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:
*My apologies...I'll try for #random. :)*
nameste, robert
-- There are five kinds of coloring (kleshas): 1) forgetting, or ignorance about the true nature of things (avidya), 2) I-ness, individuality, or egoism (asmita), 3) attachment or addiction to mental impressions or objects (raga), 4) aversion to thought patterns or objects (dvesha), and 5) love of these as being life itself, as well as fear of their loss as being death. (avidya asmita raga dvesha abhinivesha pancha klesha)
On 12/27/2015 09:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote:
I was thinking about this on my drive home, more, and I think that I was jumping the duck. #new is related to named classes, therefore in the analogy of brahma-loka, this is more of a rupa level behavior. The arupa level is there (and there is a #new at that level) but it deals with things that have no form, but by name only (#allInstancesDo:).
cheers, robert
---
And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the very source of creation.
On 12/26/2015 08:50 PM, Robert Withers wrote:
On Dec 26, 2015, at 2:26 AM, Saša Janiška <gour@atmarama.com> wrote:
On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 15:59 -0500, Robert Withers wrote:
Hello Robert,
Good day Saša,
Welcome to Pharo! I view use of Pharo (squeak) as a knowledge sacrifice eliminating bondage to Karma. This is not the mainstream and a good thing too.
Nice comparison...although, being at the beginning I still do not understand/see it as a sacrifice, but can feel it is liberating.
I suppose I think that the expenditure of time, resources, concentration and effort constitute said sacrifice of knowledge as new broader knowledge supplants older limited knowledge.
As an example, where is the root implementation of #new defined? Hint: it is close to Pharo's arupa-brahma-loka, the highest planes. ;)
:-)
Well I do think the meta system is the realms of brahma-loka, and that is split into rupa and arupa. Please let us know your thoughts on this speculation when you find #new! :-)
Hare hare and Merry Christmas,
Haribol and Happy New Year!
Dhiyo yo nah prachodayat!
--- But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My transcendental formâto them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they have.
-- As a lamp in a windless place does not waver, so the transcendentalist, whose mind is controlled, remains always steady in his meditation on the transcendent self.
-- Robert . .. ... ^,^
This is getting annoying as in using obscure references that personally I do not care about. The main problem being that there is interesting code mixed with "noise" for pharo-dev. Please make posts on Medium about it and post a link if needed (I may even actually read them), but not the Transcript nextPutAll: consciousness stream upToEnd. Phil On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 3:15 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:
Here's the thing that gets my goat: I had already acknowledged it was enough for the list and was signing off further comment when Ben decided he really needed to add his two cents. It is unfortunate he did not spend his change in a positive manner but wished to be negative and critical.
I was unwilling to let that go by as an implicit restriction on the substance of my posting, into the future. ...and the thread is twice as long. Not my doing. Some things must be challenged.
Do you know what I mean, then? Just say no to intellectual coercion.
robert
On 12/27/2015 11:33 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
Hi Robert,
I'm glad your found someone on the list to connect to on a spiritual level, but could you please keep your public posts to technical matters, (plus keep signatures short and trim old signatures from quoted responses - which unfortunately threaded email clients like gmail often hide)
cheers -ben
On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Robert Withers<robert.w.withers@gmail.com> <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:
*My apologies...I'll try for #random. :)*
nameste, robert
-- There are five kinds of coloring (kleshas): 1) forgetting, or ignorance about the true nature of things (avidya), 2) I-ness, individuality, or egoism (asmita), 3) attachment or addiction to mental impressions or objects (raga), 4) aversion to thought patterns or objects (dvesha), and 5) love of these as being life itself, as well as fear of their loss as being death. (avidya asmita raga dvesha abhinivesha pancha klesha)
On 12/27/2015 09:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote:
I was thinking about this on my drive home, more, and I think that I was jumping the duck. #new is related to named classes, therefore in the analogy of brahma-loka, this is more of a rupa level behavior. The arupa level is there (and there is a #new at that level) but it deals with things that have no form, but by name only (#allInstancesDo:).
cheers, robert
---
And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the very source of creation.
On 12/26/2015 08:50 PM, Robert Withers wrote:
On Dec 26, 2015, at 2:26 AM, Saša Janiška <gour@atmarama.com> <gour@atmarama.com> wrote:
On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 15:59 -0500, Robert Withers wrote:
Hello Robert,
Good day Saša,
Welcome to Pharo! I view use of Pharo (squeak) as a knowledge sacrifice eliminating bondage to Karma. This is not the mainstream and a good thing too.
Nice comparison...although, being at the beginning I still do not understand/see it as a sacrifice, but can feel it is liberating.
I suppose I think that the expenditure of time, resources, concentration and effort constitute said sacrifice of knowledge as new broader knowledge supplants older limited knowledge.
As an example, where is the root implementation of #new defined? Hint: it is close to Pharo's arupa-brahma-loka, the highest planes. ;)
:-)
Well I do think the meta system is the realms of brahma-loka, and that is split into rupa and arupa. Please let us know your thoughts on this speculation when you find #new! :-)
Hare hare and Merry Christmas,
Haribol and Happy New Year!
Dhiyo yo nah prachodayat!
--- But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My transcendental formâto them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they have.
-- As a lamp in a windless place does not waver, so the transcendentalist, whose mind is controlled, remains always steady in his meditation on the transcendent self.
-- Robert . .. ... ^,^
But of course, I wouldn't have it any other way: - Cryptography - SecureSession - Mushroom - Fungus and more to come with interactive fiction! Enjoy, Robert On 12/28/2015 03:31 AM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
This is getting annoying as in using obscure references that personally I do not care about.
The main problem being that there is interesting code mixed with "noise" for pharo-dev.
Please make posts on Medium about it and post a link if needed (I may even actually read them), but not the Transcript nextPutAll: consciousness stream upToEnd.
Phil
On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 3:15 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com>> wrote:
Here's the thing that gets my goat: I had already acknowledged it was enough for the list and was signing off further comment when Ben decided he really needed to add his two cents. It is unfortunate he did not spend his change in a positive manner but wished to be negative and critical.
I was unwilling to let that go by as an implicit restriction on the substance of my posting, into the future. ...and the thread is twice as long. Not my doing. Some things must be challenged.
Do you know what I mean, then? Just say no to intellectual coercion.
robert
On 12/27/2015 11:33 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
Hi Robert,
I'm glad your found someone on the list to connect to on a spiritual level, but could you please keep your public posts to technical matters, (plus keep signatures short and trim old signatures from quoted responses - which unfortunately threaded email clients like gmail often hide)
cheers -ben
On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:
*My apologies...I'll try for #random. :)*
nameste, robert
-- There are five kinds of coloring (kleshas): 1) forgetting, or ignorance about the true nature of things (avidya), 2) I-ness, individuality, or egoism (asmita), 3) attachment or addiction to mental impressions or objects (raga), 4) aversion to thought patterns or objects (dvesha), and 5) love of these as being life itself, as well as fear of their loss as being death. (avidya asmita raga dvesha abhinivesha pancha klesha)
On 12/27/2015 09:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote:
I was thinking about this on my drive home, more, and I think that I was jumping the duck. #new is related to named classes, therefore in the analogy of brahma-loka, this is more of a rupa level behavior. The arupa level is there (and there is a #new at that level) but it deals with things that have no form, but by name only (#allInstancesDo:).
cheers, robert
---
And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the very source of creation.
On 12/26/2015 08:50 PM, Robert Withers wrote:
On Dec 26, 2015, at 2:26 AM, Saša Janiška<gour@atmarama.com> <mailto:gour@atmarama.com> wrote:
On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 15:59 -0500, Robert Withers wrote:
Hello Robert,
Good day Saša,
Welcome to Pharo! I view use of Pharo (squeak) as a knowledge sacrifice eliminating bondage to Karma. This is not the mainstream and a good thing too.
Nice comparison...although, being at the beginning I still do not understand/see it as a sacrifice, but can feel it is liberating.
I suppose I think that the expenditure of time, resources, concentration and effort constitute said sacrifice of knowledge as new broader knowledge supplants older limited knowledge.
As an example, where is the root implementation of #new defined? Hint: it is close to Pharo's arupa-brahma-loka, the highest planes. ;)
:-)
Well I do think the meta system is the realms of brahma-loka, and that is split into rupa and arupa. Please let us know your thoughts on this speculation when you find #new! :-) Hare hare and Merry Christmas,
Haribol and Happy New Year!
Dhiyo yo nah prachodayat!
--- But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My transcendental formâto them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they have.
-- As a lamp in a windless place does not waver, so the transcendentalist, whose mind is controlled, remains always steady in his meditation on the transcendent self.
-- Robert . .. ... ^,^
-- Robert . .. ... ^,^
2015-12-28 3:15 GMT+01:00 Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com>:
Here's the thing that gets my goat: I had already acknowledged it was enough for the list and was signing off further comment when Ben decided he really needed to add his two cents. It is unfortunate he did not spend his change in a positive manner but wished to be negative and critical.
Hi Robert, usually, I don't comment on this kind of discussion. It wastes resources we don't have. I just want to let other peoples (like ben, phil, johan,...) know, that I share their opinion. I don't like if people argue with "I am censored", because someone critisized you. I don't like if people see every critic as a negative personel attack. you post on this list, and people suggest to stay ontopic resp. explain how this things are related to pharo. That's all. nicolai
I was unwilling to let that go by as an implicit restriction on the substance of my posting, into the future. ...and the thread is twice as long. Not my doing. Some things must be challenged.
Do you know what I mean, then? Just say no to intellectual coercion.
robert
On 12/27/2015 11:33 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
Hi Robert,
I'm glad your found someone on the list to connect to on a spiritual level, but could you please keep your public posts to technical matters, (plus keep signatures short and trim old signatures from quoted responses - which unfortunately threaded email clients like gmail often hide)
cheers -ben
On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Robert Withers<robert.w.withers@gmail.com> <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:
*My apologies...I'll try for #random. :)*
nameste, robert
-- There are five kinds of coloring (kleshas): 1) forgetting, or ignorance about the true nature of things (avidya), 2) I-ness, individuality, or egoism (asmita), 3) attachment or addiction to mental impressions or objects (raga), 4) aversion to thought patterns or objects (dvesha), and 5) love of these as being life itself, as well as fear of their loss as being death. (avidya asmita raga dvesha abhinivesha pancha klesha)
On 12/27/2015 09:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote:
I was thinking about this on my drive home, more, and I think that I was jumping the duck. #new is related to named classes, therefore in the analogy of brahma-loka, this is more of a rupa level behavior. The arupa level is there (and there is a #new at that level) but it deals with things that have no form, but by name only (#allInstancesDo:).
cheers, robert
---
And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the very source of creation.
On 12/26/2015 08:50 PM, Robert Withers wrote:
On Dec 26, 2015, at 2:26 AM, Saša Janiška <gour@atmarama.com> <gour@atmarama.com> wrote:
On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 15:59 -0500, Robert Withers wrote:
Hello Robert,
Good day Saša,
Welcome to Pharo! I view use of Pharo (squeak) as a knowledge sacrifice eliminating bondage to Karma. This is not the mainstream and a good thing too.
Nice comparison...although, being at the beginning I still do not understand/see it as a sacrifice, but can feel it is liberating.
I suppose I think that the expenditure of time, resources, concentration and effort constitute said sacrifice of knowledge as new broader knowledge supplants older limited knowledge.
As an example, where is the root implementation of #new defined? Hint: it is close to Pharo's arupa-brahma-loka, the highest planes. ;)
:-)
Well I do think the meta system is the realms of brahma-loka, and that is split into rupa and arupa. Please let us know your thoughts on this speculation when you find #new! :-)
Hare hare and Merry Christmas,
Haribol and Happy New Year!
Dhiyo yo nah prachodayat!
--- But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My transcendental formâto them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they have.
-- As a lamp in a windless place does not waver, so the transcendentalist, whose mind is controlled, remains always steady in his meditation on the transcendent self.
-- Robert . .. ... ^,^
On 12/28/2015 04:58 AM, Nicolai Hess wrote:
2015-12-28 3:15 GMT+01:00 Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com>>:
Here's the thing that gets my goat: I had already acknowledged it was enough for the list and was signing off further comment when Ben decided he really needed to add his two cents. It is unfortunate he did not spend his change in a positive manner but wished to be negative and critical.
Hi Robert, usually, I don't comment on this kind of discussion. It wastes resources we don't have. I just want to let other peoples (like ben, phil, johan,...) know, that I share their opinion. I don't like if people argue with "I am censored", because someone critisized you. I don't like if people see every critic as a negative personel attack.
you post on this list, and people suggest to stay ontopic resp. explain how this things are related to pharo. That's all.
Which is exactly what I did, I posted how it is related and still caught a knee-jerk reaction. I am drawing a line. I will continue to reference religious and scriptural meta-models. There is coherent thought in these models and they are familiar to the majority of the people on the planet, the average person, even if the intellectuals fail to resonate with it. This familiarity makes it a good model for the average person to interact. Seems to be a lack of knowledge on the side of the intellectuals. Robert
nicolai
I was unwilling to let that go by as an implicit restriction on the substance of my posting, into the future. ...and the thread is twice as long. Not my doing. Some things must be challenged.
Do you know what I mean, then? Just say no to intellectual coercion.
robert
On 12/27/2015 11:33 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
Hi Robert,
I'm glad your found someone on the list to connect to on a spiritual level, but could you please keep your public posts to technical matters, (plus keep signatures short and trim old signatures from quoted responses - which unfortunately threaded email clients like gmail often hide)
cheers -ben
On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:
*My apologies...I'll try for #random. :)*
nameste, robert
-- There are five kinds of coloring (kleshas): 1) forgetting, or ignorance about the true nature of things (avidya), 2) I-ness, individuality, or egoism (asmita), 3) attachment or addiction to mental impressions or objects (raga), 4) aversion to thought patterns or objects (dvesha), and 5) love of these as being life itself, as well as fear of their loss as being death. (avidya asmita raga dvesha abhinivesha pancha klesha)
On 12/27/2015 09:44 AM, Robert Withers wrote:
I was thinking about this on my drive home, more, and I think that I was jumping the duck. #new is related to named classes, therefore in the analogy of brahma-loka, this is more of a rupa level behavior. The arupa level is there (and there is a #new at that level) but it deals with things that have no form, but by name only (#allInstancesDo:).
cheers, robert
---
And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the very source of creation.
On 12/26/2015 08:50 PM, Robert Withers wrote:
On Dec 26, 2015, at 2:26 AM, Saša Janiška<gour@atmarama.com> <mailto:gour@atmarama.com> wrote:
On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 15:59 -0500, Robert Withers wrote:
Hello Robert,
Good day Saša,
Welcome to Pharo! I view use of Pharo (squeak) as a knowledge sacrifice eliminating bondage to Karma. This is not the mainstream and a good thing too.
Nice comparison...although, being at the beginning I still do not understand/see it as a sacrifice, but can feel it is liberating.
I suppose I think that the expenditure of time, resources, concentration and effort constitute said sacrifice of knowledge as new broader knowledge supplants older limited knowledge.
As an example, where is the root implementation of #new defined? Hint: it is close to Pharo's arupa-brahma-loka, the highest planes. ;)
:-)
Well I do think the meta system is the realms of brahma-loka, and that is split into rupa and arupa. Please let us know your thoughts on this speculation when you find #new! :-) Hare hare and Merry Christmas,
Haribol and Happy New Year!
Dhiyo yo nah prachodayat!
--- But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My transcendental formâto them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they have.
-- As a lamp in a windless place does not waver, so the transcendentalist, whose mind is controlled, remains always steady in his meditation on the transcendent self.
-- Robert . .. ... ^,^
-- Robert . .. ... ^,^
Robert, by talking about âa knee-jerk reactionâ and âa lack of knowledgeâ you are being rude to us. Please donât do that. In our mails we have been courteous and avoided using such hurtful expressions. Also, there is a difference between lack of knowledge and lack of time. I am only human with limited time and matters which are more pressing than the discussion you insist on holding. Consider it from my point of view: I am not forcing you to think about design decisions of the JIT of the domain-specific language for robotics that am I building. Greetings,
On Dec 28, 2015, at 08:29, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com> wrote:
Which is exactly what I did, I posted how it is related and still caught a knee-jerk reaction. I am drawing a line. I will continue to reference religious and scriptural meta-models. There is coherent thought in these models and they are familiar to the majority of the people on the planet, the average person, even if the intellectuals fail to resonate with it. This familiarity makes it a good model for the average person to interact. Seems to be a lack of knowledge on the side of the intellectuals.
---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
On 12/28/2015 08:01 AM, Johan Fabry wrote:
Robert,
Consider it from my point of view: I am not forcing you to think about design decisions of the JIT of the domain-specific language for robotics that am I building.
Good Lord in Heaven, please tell me more! I always love to learn more and I am right at home living inside a joint space perspective. I am highly interested in the JIT and robotics. Best regards, Robert
Greetings,
On Dec 28, 2015, at 08:29, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers@gmail.com <mailto:robert.w.withers@gmail.com>> wrote:
Which is exactly what I did, I posted how it is related and still caught a knee-jerk reaction. I am drawing a line. I will continue to reference religious and scriptural meta-models. There is coherent thought in these models and they are familiar to the majority of the people on the planet, the average person, even if the intellectuals fail to resonate with it. This familiarity makes it a good model for the average person to interact. Seems to be a lack of knowledge on the side of the intellectuals.
---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <---
Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry <http://pleiad.cl/%7Ejfabry> PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
-- Robert . .. ... ^,^
On 12/28/2015 08:11 AM, Robert Withers wrote:
On 12/28/2015 08:01 AM, Johan Fabry wrote:
Robert,
Consider it from my point of view: I am not forcing you to think about design decisions of the JIT of the domain-specific language for robotics that am I building.
Good Lord in Heaven, please tell me more! I always love to learn more and I am right at home living inside a joint space perspective. I am highly interested in the JIT and robotics.
Best regards, Robert
I plan to define a logical avatar, with various characteristics and attached attributes. This will be viewable through a chosen perspective and there may be more than one tech level perspective. A strong perspective of avatars in 2D or 3D graphics and using robotics to control avatars and NPCs in this space seems important to my vision of this. Think of the Metaverse and the underground passages in the black hacker building (Snow Crash). -- Robert . .. ... ^,^
participants (4)
-
Johan Fabry -
Nicolai Hess -
phil＠highoctane.be -
Robert Withers