Gary, In this email I attached a .st file. Just load it, and it will install the change set to get notifications. A number of people already expressed their need for such an extension. Cheers, Alexandre On 4 Jan 2010, at 17:20, Gary Chambers wrote:

Nothing like that currently or previously AFAIK.

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Denier" <Simon.Denier@inria.fr> To: "Pharo Development" <pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 4:00 PM Subject: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/ focus

...

Hi

How do you get notified of windows opening, closing, or getting focus in Pharo? Is there some announcements or some older events?

-- Simon

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Indeed, that would be great. Doru On 4 Jan 2010, at 22:48, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

Yes it would be good to see if this is ok to get it into the system.

Stef

On Jan 4, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote:

...

Gary,

In this email I attached a .st file. Just load it, and it will install the change set to get notifications. A number of people already expressed their need for such an extension.

Cheers, Alexandre

<MOMorphicExtensionInstaller.st> On 4 Jan 2010, at 17:20, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Nothing like that currently or previously AFAIK.

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Denier" <Simon.Denier@inria.fr> To: "Pharo Development" <pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 4:00 PM Subject: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/ focus

...

Hi

How do you get notified of windows opening, closing, or getting focus in Pharo? Is there some announcements or some older events?

-- Simon

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- www.tudorgirba.com "When people care, great things can happen."

...

In this email I attached a .st file. Just load it, and it will install the change set to get notifications.

I see. The fact that the actual changes are in a method makes it a bit hard to browse (I like to browse things before installing them)

Only problem is how to subscribe to a new window announcer when it pops up by any means (world menu, button, do-it....)? Should I scan World submorphs periodically? It does not seem right. Perhaps an announcement is missing in World, to notify a new window (then one can subscribe to the window)

This is not supported currently. I haven't see a situation where I personally need it. I can easily add this... Do you want me to do it? Alexandre

...

A number of people already expressed their need for such an extension.

Cheers, Alexandre

<MOMorphicExtensionInstaller.st> On 4 Jan 2010, at 17:20, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Nothing like that currently or previously AFAIK.

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Denier" <Simon.Denier@inria.fr> To: "Pharo Development" <pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 4:00 PM Subject: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/ focus

...

Hi

How do you get notified of windows opening, closing, or getting focus in Pharo? Is there some announcements or some older events?

-- Simon

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- Simon

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

On 6 janv. 2010, at 16:48, Gary Chambers wrote:

Would be nice (if anyone needs it) to have a "global" access point (the World perhaps) for general notifcations as hinted at earlier. Kind of "window manager" notifications.

I think so. It would be useful in the long terms for window management. However, the current taskbar is able to detect and register any new window. Gary, can you tell how it is done right now?

In the individual window case, I see some use in being to pick up "reactivation" perhaps, to refresh contents etc. when costly to keep constantly in sync...

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexandre Bergel" <alexandre@bergel.eu> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

...

...

...

In this email I attached a .st file. Just load it, and it will install the change set to get notifications.

I see. The fact that the actual changes are in a method makes it a bit hard to browse (I like to browse things before installing them)

Only problem is how to subscribe to a new window announcer when it pops up by any means (world menu, button, do-it....)? Should I scan World submorphs periodically? It does not seem right. Perhaps an announcement is missing in World, to notify a new window (then one can subscribe to the window)

This is not supported currently. I haven't see a situation where I personally need it. I can easily add this... Do you want me to do it?

Alexandre

...

...

A number of people already expressed their need for such an extension.

Cheers, Alexandre

<MOMorphicExtensionInstaller.st> On 4 Jan 2010, at 17:20, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Nothing like that currently or previously AFAIK.

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Denier" <Simon.Denier@inria.fr> To: "Pharo Development" <pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 4:00 PM Subject: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/ focus

...

Hi

How do you get notified of windows opening, closing, or getting focus in Pharo? Is there some announcements or some older events?

-- Simon

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- Simon

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- Simon

Indeed. Would be nicer if there was a proper announcement protocol for such things though. Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henrik Sperre Johansen" <henrik.s.johansen@veloxit.no> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

On 06.01.2010 17:14, Simon Denier wrote:

...

On 6 janv. 2010, at 16:48, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Would be nice (if anyone needs it) to have a "global" access point (the World perhaps) for general notifcations as hinted at earlier. Kind of "window manager" notifications.

I think so. It would be useful in the long terms for window management.

However, the current taskbar is able to detect and register any new window. Gary, can you tell how it is done right now?

TaskBarMorph >> ownerChanged, which is sent every time the World does layout.

Cheers, Henry

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

On 06.01.2010 22:36, Simon Denier wrote:

On 6 janv. 2010, at 18:42, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Indeed. Would be nicer if there was a proper announcement protocol for such things though.

I see, updateTasks is called everytime a change in layout happens then. Indeed, it looks like announcements will greatly simplified the trick.

I am not sure where to do the announcement though. Does any top window uses openInWorld to add itself to World?

My guess would be that at the end of SystemWindow>> openAsIsIn: would be the the simplest place to put it. Cheers, Henry

I think the annnouncements should be sent by the World (being, effectively, the window manager). Too many ways to open open a window exist and only the fact of being added to the World seems consistent. I suggest opened, closed, activated (becoming topmost-ish), deactivated, expanded, collapsed, restored and maybe repositioned/resized would be useful. Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henrik Sperre Johansen" <henrik.s.johansen@veloxit.no> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

On 06.01.2010 22:36, Simon Denier wrote:

...

On 6 janv. 2010, at 18:42, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Indeed. Would be nicer if there was a proper announcement protocol for such things though.

I see, updateTasks is called everytime a change in layout happens then. Indeed, it looks like announcements will greatly simplified the trick.

I am not sure where to do the announcement though. Does any top window uses openInWorld to add itself to World?

My guess would be that at the end of SystemWindow>> openAsIsIn: would be the the simplest place to put it.

Cheers, Henry

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

On 7 janv. 2010, at 12:49, Gary Chambers wrote:

I think the annnouncements should be sent by the World (being, effectively, the window manager).

One problem is that World is an instance of PasteUpMorph. If we modify this class, what happens to potential other instances? By default in my Pharo image, it seems that World is the only instance of PasteUpMorph.

Too many ways to open open a window exist and only the fact of being added to the World seems consistent. I suggest opened, closed, activated (becoming topmost-ish), deactivated, expanded, collapsed, restored and maybe repositioned/resized would be useful.

Do you mean that such announcements should be performed by World? Because most are already done by windows themselves with the patch of Alex. As I said, the only one really necessary in World is window opened, so that listeners subscribed to World are notifited of windows opened in World and can subscribe to them. By the way Alex, is there a squeaksource project with your extensions as regular methods and classes (not in a changeset)?

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Henrik Sperre Johansen" <henrik.s.johansen@veloxit.no> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

...

On 06.01.2010 22:36, Simon Denier wrote:

...

On 6 janv. 2010, at 18:42, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Indeed. Would be nicer if there was a proper announcement protocol for such things though.

I see, updateTasks is called everytime a change in layout happens then. Indeed, it looks like announcements will greatly simplified the trick.

I am not sure where to do the announcement though. Does any top window uses openInWorld to add itself to World?

My guess would be that at the end of SystemWindow>> openAsIsIn: would be the the simplest place to put it.

Cheers, Henry

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- Simon

On Jan 7, 2010, at 2:10 04PM, Gary Chambers wrote:

That is one option, though it does seem to be burdensome on the announcement consumers to (depending upon requirements) possibly have to track all windows themselves.

Regards, GaryI am not talking about Announcers, but where the Announcement is created.

I'm not talking about letting the window be the announcer, but where the announcement is made. So you'd do openAsIsIn: aWorld "current implementation" someAnnouncer announce: (WindowOpened for: self in: self world) someAnnouncer could be a global announcer for all window events. Cheers, Henry

Fair enough. Perhaps the "global" announcer could be accessed via the class-side of SystemWindow. Lots of evil ways of manipulating morphs too. Just thought about hide/show etc. Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henrik Johansen" <henrik.s.johansen@veloxit.no> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

On Jan 7, 2010, at 2:10 04PM, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

That is one option, though it does seem to be burdensome on the announcement consumers to (depending upon requirements) possibly have to track all windows themselves.

Regards, GaryI am not talking about Announcers, but where the Announcement is created.

I'm not talking about letting the window be the announcer, but where the announcement is made.

So you'd do openAsIsIn: aWorld "current implementation" someAnnouncer announce: (WindowOpened for: self in: self world)

someAnnouncer could be a global announcer for all window events.

Cheers, Henry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Hi!

In the PharoTaskForces SqueakSource repository I committed a new version of Morphic (Morphic-Alexandre_Bergel.393). This version includes the window announcement I have been working on for few months already.

Here is an example of a unit test. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= MorphicWindowNotificationTest>>testWindowCreationAndDeletion

| t window newWindowCreated r | t := 0. World announcer on: MorphicCreationWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 1. newWindowCreated := ann window]. World announcer on: MorphicClosingWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 10. newWindowCreated := ann window]. window := SystemWindow labelled: 'foo'. window openInWorld.

self assert: (t = 1). self assert: (window == newWindowCreated). window delete.

self assert: (t = 11). self assert: (window == newWindowCreated). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= If everybody agrees on this, it would be cool to include it in Pharo soon. At each new version of Morphic, I will have to update this, and this is boring.

Yes I would be happy. I did not want to push this change because I could not assess the impact in term of slowdown. Now if we get an ok from gary and/or others this is ok for me.

The comment of the .mcz is -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This new version extends Morphic with a window event mechanism. It add a variables to SystemWindow (thus implies a recompilation of all subclasses of SystemWindow). It does some overrides in: - SystemWindow: for deletion, resize, ... - ScrollPane: notification for scrolling. This part is probably not nicely designed, but it works

what is the increment of notification because it can geenrate a lot of events?

- PasteUpMorph: World can now emit event for window creation and deletion

The method SystemWindow>>openAsIsIn: is overriden. The new version belongs to Morphic, before it belonged to Polymorph. Loading this version make Polymorph dirty therefore.

5 test methods are provided in MorphicWindowNotificationTest. All tests are green in a pharo1.0-10502-rc1dev09.12.2 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Comments are welcome

Cheers, Alexandre

On 7 Jan 2010, at 10:58, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Fair enough. Perhaps the "global" announcer could be accessed via the class-side of SystemWindow.

Lots of evil ways of manipulating morphs too. Just thought about hide/show etc.

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Henrik Johansen" <henrik.s.johansen@veloxit.no> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/ closing/focus

...

On Jan 7, 2010, at 2:10 04PM, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

That is one option, though it does seem to be burdensome on the announcement consumers to (depending upon requirements) possibly have to track all windows themselves.

Regards, GaryI am not talking about Announcers, but where the Announcement is created.

I'm not talking about letting the window be the announcer, but where the announcement is made.

So you'd do openAsIsIn: aWorld "current implementation" someAnnouncer announce: (WindowOpened for: self in: self world)

someAnnouncer could be a global announcer for all window events.

Cheers, Henry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Looks ok to me. Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

...

Hi!

In the PharoTaskForces SqueakSource repository I committed a new version of Morphic (Morphic-Alexandre_Bergel.393). This version includes the window announcement I have been working on for few months already.

Here is an example of a unit test. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= MorphicWindowNotificationTest>>testWindowCreationAndDeletion

| t window newWindowCreated r | t := 0. World announcer on: MorphicCreationWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 1. newWindowCreated := ann window]. World announcer on: MorphicClosingWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 10. newWindowCreated := ann window]. window := SystemWindow labelled: 'foo'. window openInWorld.

self assert: (t = 1). self assert: (window == newWindowCreated). window delete.

self assert: (t = 11). self assert: (window == newWindowCreated). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= If everybody agrees on this, it would be cool to include it in Pharo soon. At each new version of Morphic, I will have to update this, and this is boring.

Yes I would be happy. I did not want to push this change because I could not assess the impact in term of slowdown. Now if we get an ok from gary and/or others this is ok for me.

...

The comment of the .mcz is -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This new version extends Morphic with a window event mechanism. It add a variables to SystemWindow (thus implies a recompilation of all subclasses of SystemWindow). It does some overrides in: - SystemWindow: for deletion, resize, ... - ScrollPane: notification for scrolling. This part is probably not nicely designed, but it works

what is the increment of notification because it can geenrate a lot of events?

...

- PasteUpMorph: World can now emit event for window creation and deletion

The method SystemWindow>>openAsIsIn: is overriden. The new version belongs to Morphic, before it belonged to Polymorph. Loading this version make Polymorph dirty therefore.

5 test methods are provided in MorphicWindowNotificationTest. All tests are green in a pharo1.0-10502-rc1dev09.12.2 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Comments are welcome

Cheers, Alexandre

On 7 Jan 2010, at 10:58, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Fair enough. Perhaps the "global" announcer could be accessed via the class-side of SystemWindow.

Lots of evil ways of manipulating morphs too. Just thought about hide/show etc.

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Henrik Johansen" <henrik.s.johansen@veloxit.no> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/ closing/focus

...

On Jan 7, 2010, at 2:10 04PM, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

That is one option, though it does seem to be burdensome on the announcement consumers to (depending upon requirements) possibly have to track all windows themselves.

Regards, GaryI am not talking about Announcers, but where the Announcement is created.

I'm not talking about letting the window be the announcer, but where the announcement is made.

So you'd do openAsIsIn: aWorld "current implementation" someAnnouncer announce: (WindowOpened for: self in: self world)

someAnnouncer could be a global announcer for all window events.

Cheers, Henry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Thanks for your comments. I renamed the announcement accordingly to your comments. I attached a screenshot of the new hierarchy Better? Alexandre On 8 Jan 2010, at 08:57, Henrik Johansen wrote:

On Jan 8, 2010, at 11:56 18AM, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Looks ok to me.

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/ closing/focus

...

...

Hi!

In the PharoTaskForces SqueakSource repository I committed a new version of Morphic (Morphic-Alexandre_Bergel.393). This version includes the window announcement I have been working on for few months already.

Here is an example of a unit test. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= MorphicWindowNotificationTest>>testWindowCreationAndDeletion

| t window newWindowCreated r | t := 0. World announcer on: MorphicCreationWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 1. newWindowCreated := ann window]. World announcer on: MorphicClosingWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 10. newWindowCreated := ann window].

I don't particularly like the naming.

- Why including Announcement at the end? - Why does one contain a verb, and the other a - When are they fired? Closing implies to me it's not been closed yet, but fired somewhere after the closing has started, while CreationWindow I have no idea what means.

MorphicWindowOpen(ed/ing) MorphicWindowClos(ed/ing)

are both easier to read for me, shorter, and more in line with the naming convention for Pragma announcements already in Pharo.

Cheers, Henry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

One other thing... when doing the SystemWindow lookup in ScrollPane... there is (with Polymorph) a #window method implemented in Morph that might simplify the changes.

Ah! Excellent! I updated the code. Morphic-Alexandre_Bergel.395 in PharoTaskForces Cheers, Alexandre

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexandre Bergel" <alexandre@bergel.eu> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/ closing/focus

...

Thanks for your comments. I renamed the announcement accordingly to your comments. I attached a screenshot of the new hierarchy

Better?

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 8 Jan 2010, at 08:57, Henrik Johansen wrote:

...

On Jan 8, 2010, at 11:56 18AM, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Looks ok to me.

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/ closing/focus

...

...

Hi!

In the PharoTaskForces SqueakSource repository I committed a new version of Morphic (Morphic-Alexandre_Bergel.393). This version includes the window announcement I have been working on for few months already.

Here is an example of a unit test. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= MorphicWindowNotificationTest>>testWindowCreationAndDeletion

| t window newWindowCreated r | t := 0. World announcer on: MorphicCreationWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 1. newWindowCreated := ann window]. World announcer on: MorphicClosingWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 10. newWindowCreated := ann window].

I don't particularly like the naming.

- Why including Announcement at the end? - Why does one contain a verb, and the other a - When are they fired? Closing implies to me it's not been closed yet, but fired somewhere after the closing has started, while CreationWindow I have no idea what means.

MorphicWindowOpen(ed/ing) MorphicWindowClos(ed/ing)

are both easier to read for me, shorter, and more in line with the naming convention for Pragma announcements already in Pharo.

Cheers, Henry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...

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-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

If "after the fact" I'd vote for the "ed" suffix too. Make it match what is/has happening/happened. As a side note, WindowClosing is common to give a potential veto chance (i.e. deny close). Should also be a WindowClosed if it does get that far... Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus Alexandre as soon as we will got the names right publish, add a bug tracker item and this will be integrated now about the names Closing or Closed? Collapsed? WindowMoved? what is the convention? when the event happens at the end I would prefer ed when it occurs over a long action ing any english-oriented/design remarks? ?

Alexandre

<Picture 3.png>

On 8 Jan 2010, at 08:57, Henrik Johansen wrote:

...

On Jan 8, 2010, at 11:56 18AM, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Looks ok to me.

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

...

...

Hi!

In the PharoTaskForces SqueakSource repository I committed a new version of Morphic (Morphic-Alexandre_Bergel.393). This version includes the window announcement I have been working on for few months already.

Here is an example of a unit test. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= MorphicWindowNotificationTest>>testWindowCreationAndDeletion

| t window newWindowCreated r | t := 0. World announcer on: MorphicCreationWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 1. newWindowCreated := ann window]. World announcer on: MorphicClosingWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 10. newWindowCreated := ann window].

I don't particularly like the naming.

- Why including Announcement at the end? - Why does one contain a verb, and the other a - When are they fired? Closing implies to me it's not been closed yet, but fired somewhere after the closing has started, while CreationWindow I have no idea what means.

MorphicWindowOpen(ed/ing) MorphicWindowClos(ed/ing)

are both easier to read for me, shorter, and more in line with the naming convention for Pragma announcements already in Pharo.

Cheers, Henry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

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Another possibility is to leave off the tense. What we should avoid is WindowMoved while there is still an opportunity to veto it; WindowMove would be (mercifully) neutral. I hesitate to mention that Object Arts went through a high-profile change on this some time back, and had very good reasons for their choices. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Henrik Sperre Johansen Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:26 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus On 08.01.2010 21:37, Gary Chambers wrote:

If "after the fact" I'd vote for the "ed" suffix too. Make it match what is/has happening/happened. As a side note, WindowClosing is common to give a potential veto chance (i.e. deny close). Should also be a WindowClosed if it does get that far...

Regards, Gary

I suggest having both ...ing/...ed versions of close, move and resize, and ...ed for the rest, at least for now. Cheers, Henry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Stef, It will be challenging to find the relevant discussion, though it is probably captured in Ian Bartholomew's news archives. IIRC, the fine points were about tense, just like here. When does digging into that archive turn into reverse engineering? It is a public forum, and the archives of the group have long been on Ian's site in plain view to all. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 7:08 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus what was the words they used? Stef On Jan 8, 2010, at 11:37 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

Another possibility is to leave off the tense. What we should avoid is WindowMoved while there is still an opportunity to veto it; WindowMove would be (mercifully) neutral. I hesitate to mention that Object Arts went through a high-profile change on this some time back, and had very good reasons for their choices.

Bill

-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Henrik Sperre Johansen Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:26 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

On 08.01.2010 21:37, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

If "after the fact" I'd vote for the "ed" suffix too. Make it match what is/has happening/happened. As a side note, WindowClosing is common to give a potential veto chance (i.e. deny close). Should also be a WindowClosed if it does get that far...

Regards, Gary

I suggest having both ...ing/...ed versions of close, move and resize, and ...ed for the rest, at least for now.

Cheers, Henry

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Why not something like : #aboutToClose and #closed ? ----------------- Benoit St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Blog: lamneth.wordpress.com A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. (Albert Einstein) ________________________________ From: Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2@btinternet.com> To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 3:37:39 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus If "after the fact" I'd vote for the "ed" suffix too. Make it match what is/has happening/happened. As a side note, WindowClosing is common to give a potential veto chance (i.e. deny close). Should also be a WindowClosed if it does get that far... Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus Alexandre as soon as we will got the names right publish, add a bug tracker item and this will be integrated now about the names Closing or Closed? Collapsed? WindowMoved? what is the convention? when the event happens at the end I would prefer ed when it occurs over a long action ing any english-oriented/design remarks? ?

Alexandre

<Picture 3.png>

On 8 Jan 2010, at 08:57, Henrik Johansen wrote:

...

On Jan 8, 2010, at 11:56 18AM, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Looks ok to me.

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

...

...

Hi!

In the PharoTaskForces SqueakSource repository I committed a new version of Morphic (Morphic-Alexandre_Bergel.393). This version includes the window announcement I have been working on for few months already.

Here is an example of a unit test. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= MorphicWindowNotificationTest>>testWindowCreationAndDeletion

| t window newWindowCreated r | t := 0. World announcer on: MorphicCreationWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 1. newWindowCreated := ann window]. World announcer on: MorphicClosingWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 10. newWindowCreated := ann window].

I don't particularly like the naming.

- Why including Announcement at the end? - Why does one contain a verb, and the other a - When are they fired? Closing implies to me it's not been closed yet, but fired somewhere after the closing has started, while CreationWindow I have no idea what means.

MorphicWindowOpen(ed/ing) MorphicWindowClos(ed/ing)

are both easier to read for me, shorter, and more in line with the naming convention for Pragma announcements already in Pharo.

Cheers, Henry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

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I have to go now and I still do not have internet at home. I will work on this on Monday. Cheers, Alexandre On 8 Jan 2010, at 17:19, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

Alexandre

as soon as we will got the names right publish, add a bug tracker item and this will be integrated now about the names

Closing or Closed? Collapsed? WindowMoved?

what is the convention? when the event happens at the end I would prefer ed when it occurs over a long action ing

any english-oriented/design remarks? ?

...

Alexandre

<Picture 3.png>

On 8 Jan 2010, at 08:57, Henrik Johansen wrote:

...

On Jan 8, 2010, at 11:56 18AM, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Looks ok to me.

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/ closing/focus

...

...

Hi!

In the PharoTaskForces SqueakSource repository I committed a new version of Morphic (Morphic-Alexandre_Bergel.393). This version includes the window announcement I have been working on for few months already.

Here is an example of a unit test. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= MorphicWindowNotificationTest>>testWindowCreationAndDeletion

| t window newWindowCreated r | t := 0. World announcer on: MorphicCreationWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 1. newWindowCreated := ann window]. World announcer on: MorphicClosingWindowAnnouncement do: [:ann | t := t + 10. newWindowCreated := ann window].

I don't particularly like the naming.

- Why including Announcement at the end? - Why does one contain a verb, and the other a - When are they fired? Closing implies to me it's not been closed yet, but fired somewhere after the closing has started, while CreationWindow I have no idea what means.

MorphicWindowOpen(ed/ing) MorphicWindowClos(ed/ing)

are both easier to read for me, shorter, and more in line with the naming convention for Pragma announcements already in Pharo.

Cheers, Henry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Gary, If announcements are at all what I am expecting (perhaps a non-trivial assumption??), then I doubt it will be a problem. One would observe the world/window-manager for open events, and then express interest in events from individual windows. That might turn out to be easier on consumers than getting everything from one source. Cleanup should be trivial if the announcement framework uses weak references. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Gary Chambers Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:10 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus That is one option, though it does seem to be burdensome on the announcement consumers to (depending upon requirements) possibly have to track all windows themselves. Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Denier" <Simon.Denier@inria.fr> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

On 7 janv. 2010, at 12:49, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

I think the annnouncements should be sent by the World (being, effectively, the window manager).

One problem is that World is an instance of PasteUpMorph. If we modify this class, what happens to potential other instances? By default in my Pharo image, it seems that World is the only instance of PasteUpMorph.

...

Too many ways to open open a window exist and only the fact of being added to the World seems consistent. I suggest opened, closed, activated (becoming topmost-ish), deactivated, expanded, collapsed, restored and maybe repositioned/resized would be useful.

Do you mean that such announcements should be performed by World? Because most are already done by windows themselves with the patch of Alex. As I said, the only one really necessary in World is window opened, so that listeners subscribed to World are notifited of windows opened in World and can subscribe to them.

By the way Alex, is there a squeaksource project with your extensions as regular methods and classes (not in a changeset)?

...

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Henrik Sperre Johansen" <henrik.s.johansen@veloxit.no> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

...

On 06.01.2010 22:36, Simon Denier wrote:

...

On 6 janv. 2010, at 18:42, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Indeed. Would be nicer if there was a proper announcement protocol for such things though.

I see, updateTasks is called everytime a change in layout happens then. Indeed, it looks like announcements will greatly simplified the trick.

I am not sure where to do the announcement though. Does any top window uses openInWorld to add itself to World?

My guess would be that at the end of SystemWindow>> openAsIsIn: would be the the simplest place to put it.

Cheers, Henry

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-- Simon

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One should always be *able* to unsubscribe, but it should not be required. Squeak's weak collections do not measure up to the competition. Please take a look at my 1/2/2010 post "RE: [Pharo-project] Can't debug in 1.1". I doubt SharedLookupTable could be called efficient, but it solved some problems I was having due to the current implementation. I welcome concrete examples of how horrible it is, and offer it up as a starting point or simple inspiration for something more useful. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Henrik Sperre Johansen Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 6:57 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus On 07.01.2010 14:50, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

Gary,

If announcements are at all what I am expecting (perhaps a non-trivial assumption??), then I doubt it will be a problem. One would observe the world/window-manager for open events, and then express interest in events from individual windows. That might turn out to be easier on consumers than getting everything from one source. Cleanup should be trivial if the announcement framework uses weak references.

Bill

The Pharo implementation does not include weak announcement subscriptions, you have to manually unsubscribe if you need to. This can be solved in VisualWorks without keeping a list of whom you are subscribed to, by using the fact that the block in subscribe:do: can take 2 args instead of one, in which case the second argument is the announcer. If this were the case in the Pharo/Squeak implementation, the Global WindowOpened/Local InterestingWindowEvents could be written: (receiveAnnouncements to true in initialize, false in release) SystemWindow openAnnouncer subscribe: WindowOpened do: [:ann : | ann window satisfiesMyCriteria ifTrue: [ ann window subscribe: InterestingWindowEvent do: [:ann :announcer | receiveAnnouncements ifTrue: [self handleInterestingEvent: ann] ifFalse: [announcer unsubscribe: self]] Not very pretty, but still better than the alternative if you know the dynamic announcer is likely to outlive the consumer. Cheers, Henry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Henry, No argument, your solution is simpler. However, we do not have announcements like this now, and it appears that the poor state of weak collections in Squeak/Pharo is standing in the way of a clean implementation. My vote is to tackle the weaklings, at least until they work well enough to support what we should have in this case. Otherwise, we kick the weak can down the road as has been done all along rather than fixing it, AND we end up with a sub-standard announcments-based framework. Let's do it right. We will then have an evolving/improving weak collection and something in the image that puts some stress on same. If I'm missing something, please enlighten me. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Henrik Sperre Johansen Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:45 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus On 08.01.2010 01:32, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

One should always be *able* to unsubscribe, but it should not be required.

Squeak's weak collections do not measure up to the competition. Please take a look at my 1/2/2010 post "RE: [Pharo-project] Can't debug in 1.1". I doubt SharedLookupTable could be called efficient, but it solved some problems I was having due to the current implementation. I welcome concrete examples of how horrible it is, and offer it up as a starting point or simple inspiration for something more useful.

Bill

I guess I should have quoted Gary's question of whether the approach would be hard to unregister instead. Originally, I (like you) thought not. After actually looking at the implementation, I do. What I posted is one way to "solve" this, weak subscriptions is another. On a scale of "what's harder to get right", I'd bet there's a larger chance of having 2 arg blocks implemented first. Cheers, Henry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Henry, Then we need to fix the weak collections. Dolphin (of the mid-90's) already had thread-safe weak collections and a high-priority process to detect and clean up "damage" to them; it's time to catch up. The more I think about it, your idea is sounding a lot like the dependency days of MVC - remember #release? I'm trying to forget. I am not trying to be confrontational, but we can and should do better than this. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Henrik Sperre Johansen Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:27 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus On 08.01.2010 02:07, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

Henry,

No argument, your solution is simpler. However, we do not have announcements like this now, and it appears that the poor state of weak collections in Squeak/Pharo is standing in the way of a clean implementation. My vote is to tackle the weaklings, at least until they work well enough to support what we should have in this case. Otherwise, we kick the weak can down the road as has been done all along rather than fixing it, AND we end up with a sub-standard announcments-based framework.

Let's do it right. We will then have an evolving/improving weak collection and something in the image that puts some stress on same. If I'm missing something, please enlighten me.

Bill

Weak collections does not stand in the way of making the use case of unregistering dynamic registrations manually easier. They stand in the way of the use case of unregistrating registeration automatically. Here's what you're missing: No matter how you implement the automatic unregistering, it will be nondetermenistic, for the exact same reasons finalization is nondeterministic. Thus, if you require deterministic unregistration, you have to do it manually, and the use case of making that easier to do have value in its own right. Cheers, Henry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Stef, Fair enough. What do you think of the shared lookup table I posted? Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:06 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus Build something and propose it. Continue to discuss and get a group of people working on the solution. Good solution should emerge but code is important. Stef

Henry,

Then we need to fix the weak collections. Dolphin (of the mid-90's) already had thread-safe weak collections and a high-priority process to detect and clean up "damage" to them; it's time to catch up.

The more I think about it, your idea is sounding a lot like the dependency days of MVC - remember #release? I'm trying to forget.

I am not trying to be confrontational, but we can and should do better than this.

Bill

-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Henrik Sperre Johansen Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:27 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

On 08.01.2010 02:07, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

Henry,

No argument, your solution is simpler. However, we do not have announcements like this now, and it appears that the poor state of weak collections in Squeak/Pharo is standing in the way of a clean implementation. My vote is to tackle the weaklings, at least until they work well enough to support what we should have in this case. Otherwise, we kick the weak can down the road as has been done all along rather than fixing it, AND we end up with a sub-standard announcments-based framework.

Let's do it right. We will then have an evolving/improving weak collection and something in the image that puts some stress on same. If I'm missing something, please enlighten me.

Bill

Weak collections does not stand in the way of making the use case of unregistering dynamic registrations manually easier. They stand in the way of the use case of unregistrating registeration automatically.

Here's what you're missing: No matter how you implement the automatic unregistering, it will be nondetermenistic, for the exact same reasons finalization is nondeterministic. Thus, if you require deterministic unregistration, you have to do it manually, and the use case of making that easier to do have value in its own right.

Cheers, Henry

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Stef, I find it difficult to imagine your being dull on anything, but I guess we all have limits. I have been pushing a little firmly on weak collections because Squeak/Pharo are _way_ behind where Dolphin was 12+ years ago, and it seems avoidable. So far I have created very simple thread safe (hopefully) wrappers around Dictionary (SharedLookupTable) and Set. The dictionary can be weak in keys or values. I subclass from Object to minimize problems with super classes filling gaps w/o my knowledge. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 3:16 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus I'm dull on this kind of topics ;) and this is why I listen and try to understand from the discussion. I learned a lot this year already on a lot of topics (float, complex....) stef On Jan 8, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

Stef,

Fair enough. What do you think of the shared lookup table I posted?

Bill

-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:06 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

Build something and propose it. Continue to discuss and get a group of people working on the solution. Good solution should emerge but code is important.

Stef

...

Henry,

Then we need to fix the weak collections. Dolphin (of the mid-90's) already had thread-safe weak collections and a high-priority process to detect and clean up "damage" to them; it's time to catch up.

The more I think about it, your idea is sounding a lot like the dependency days of MVC - remember #release? I'm trying to forget.

I am not trying to be confrontational, but we can and should do better than this.

Bill

-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Henrik Sperre Johansen Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:27 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus

On 08.01.2010 02:07, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

Henry,

No argument, your solution is simpler. However, we do not have announcements like this now, and it appears that the poor state of weak collections in Squeak/Pharo is standing in the way of a clean implementation. My vote is to tackle the weaklings, at least until they work well enough to support what we should have in this case. Otherwise, we kick the weak can down the road as has been done all along rather than fixing it, AND we end up with a sub-standard announcments-based framework.

Let's do it right. We will then have an evolving/improving weak collection and something in the image that puts some stress on same. If I'm missing something, please enlighten me.

Bill

Weak collections does not stand in the way of making the use case of unregistering dynamic registrations manually easier. They stand in the way of the use case of unregistrating registeration automatically.

Here's what you're missing: No matter how you implement the automatic unregistering, it will be nondetermenistic, for the exact same reasons finalization is nondeterministic. Thus, if you require deterministic unregistration, you have to do it manually, and the use case of making that easier to do have value in its own right.

Cheers, Henry

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Stef, Will do. What is the difference between PharoInBox and PharoTaskForces? I see many references to them, but nothing that clarifies what to use when. Is there a way to get MC to save "part of" a package? Suppose I have DolphinCompatibilty-Streams DolphinCompatibilty-ODBC DolphinCompatibilty-FFI DolphinCompatibilty-Network ... and want to save just the FFI package. Is there a way to do that? I might have been going about it incorrectly, but I found the results to be unpredictable. It matters because I sometimes work under non-disclosure agreements, and it would be really bad to put relevant code in a public respository :( Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 3:49 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/closing/focus On Jan 8, 2010, at 9:38 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

Stef,

I find it difficult to imagine your being dull on anything, but I guess we all have limits. :)

I have been pushing a little firmly on weak collections because Squeak/Pharo are _way_ behind where Dolphin was 12+ years ago, and it seems avoidable.

Yes I imagine well.

So far I have created very simple thread safe (hopefully) wrappers around Dictionary (SharedLookupTable) and Set. The dictionary can be weak in keys or values. I subclass from Object to minimize problems with super classes filling gaps w/o my knowledge.

this is why I suggest you publish some code in the PharoTaskForces and get some arguments with others and we all learn :) _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

The discussion diverged into two tracks: 1 - windows event 2 - weak collections in announcer I do not have a solution for 2). But for 1), I proposed a new version of Morphic in PharoTaskForces. Gary had a look at it and is ok with the code. Alexandre On 8 Jan 2010, at 07:06, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

Build something and propose it. Continue to discuss and get a group of people working on the solution. Good solution should emerge but code is important.

Stef

...

Henry,

Then we need to fix the weak collections. Dolphin (of the mid-90's) already had thread-safe weak collections and a high- priority process to detect and clean up "damage" to them; it's time to catch up.

The more I think about it, your idea is sounding a lot like the dependency days of MVC - remember #release? I'm trying to forget.

I am not trying to be confrontational, but we can and should do better than this.

Bill

-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr ] On Behalf Of Henrik Sperre Johansen Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:27 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/ closing/focus

On 08.01.2010 02:07, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:

...

Henry,

No argument, your solution is simpler. However, we do not have announcements like this now, and it appears that the poor state of weak collections in Squeak/Pharo is standing in the way of a clean implementation. My vote is to tackle the weaklings, at least until they work well enough to support what we should have in this case. Otherwise, we kick the weak can down the road as has been done all along rather than fixing it, AND we end up with a sub- standard announcments-based framework.

Let's do it right. We will then have an evolving/improving weak collection and something in the image that puts some stress on same. If I'm missing something, please enlighten me.

Bill

Weak collections does not stand in the way of making the use case of unregistering dynamic registrations manually easier. They stand in the way of the use case of unregistrating registeration automatically.

Here's what you're missing: No matter how you implement the automatic unregistering, it will be nondetermenistic, for the exact same reasons finalization is nondeterministic. Thus, if you require deterministic unregistration, you have to do it manually, and the use case of making that easier to do have value in its own right.

Cheers, Henry

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-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

By the way Alex, is there a squeaksource project with your extensions as regular methods and classes (not in a changeset)?

Not yet. But a monticello package would be a bit ugly since: - it adds a variable to SystemWindow - it performs some overrides in ScrollPane and SystemWindow Creating a clean Monticello package is not easy. Cheers, Alexandre

...

Regards, Gary

----- Original Message ----- From: "Henrik Sperre Johansen" <henrik.s.johansen@veloxit.no> To: <Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Notifications of windows opening/ closing/focus

...

On 06.01.2010 22:36, Simon Denier wrote:

...

On 6 janv. 2010, at 18:42, Gary Chambers wrote:

...

Indeed. Would be nicer if there was a proper announcement protocol for such things though.

I see, updateTasks is called everytime a change in layout happens then. Indeed, it looks like announcements will greatly simplified the trick.

I am not sure where to do the announcement though. Does any top window uses openInWorld to add itself to World?

My guess would be that at the end of SystemWindow>> openAsIsIn: would be the the simplest place to put it.

Cheers, Henry

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-- Simon

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-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.