Le 03/04/2015 15:56, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev a écrit :
I can perfectly understand that "not everything has to be in the image" and that, ultimately, someone has to maintain that code. The only problem I have with the removal of that theme is that more than 55% of users are running some flavor of Windows. It's not as if someone would ask for an OS/2 or a Motif UI theme! There are *LOTS* of people on Windows still !
Hi Benoit, I agree with you this window theme may have its usefulness in professional desktop application for Pharo[1]. But Desktop application is not really the priority and I am afraid you are own your own. In the other hand it should be doable to maintain it as a separate package. Hilaire [1] You can even still see in operation kind of DOS like operated application, mainly because it is handy for users. I guess Windows theme can serve the same purpose, may be this is what Benoit is explaining about. -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu
Oh, but wait a minute: W2K was not present in Pharo3, only Vistary was there, but removed. Hilaire Le 03/04/2015 16:16, Hilaire a écrit :
Le 03/04/2015 15:56, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev a écrit :
I can perfectly understand that "not everything has to be in the image" and that, ultimately, someone has to maintain that code. The only problem I have with the removal of that theme is that more than 55% of users are running some flavor of Windows. It's not as if someone would ask for an OS/2 or a Motif UI theme! There are *LOTS* of people on Windows still !
Hi Benoit,
I agree with you this window theme may have its usefulness in professional desktop application for Pharo[1]. But Desktop application is not really the priority and I am afraid you are own your own. In the other hand it should be doable to maintain it as a separate package.
Hilaire
[1] You can even still see in operation kind of DOS like operated application, mainly because it is handy for users. I guess Windows theme can serve the same purpose, may be this is what Benoit is explaining about.
-- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu
On 03 Apr 2015, at 16:19, Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu> wrote:
Oh, but wait a minute: W2K was not present in Pharo3, only Vistary was there, but removed.
right, we removed W2K already for Pharo3. Itâs 2015...
Hilaire
Le 03/04/2015 16:16, Hilaire a écrit :
Le 03/04/2015 15:56, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev a écrit :
I can perfectly understand that "not everything has to be in the image" and that, ultimately, someone has to maintain that code. The only problem I have with the removal of that theme is that more than 55% of users are running some flavor of Windows. It's not as if someone would ask for an OS/2 or a Motif UI theme! There are *LOTS* of people on Windows still !
Hi Benoit,
I agree with you this window theme may have its usefulness in professional desktop application for Pharo[1]. But Desktop application is not really the priority and I am afraid you are own your own. In the other hand it should be doable to maintain it as a separate package.
Hilaire
[1] You can even still see in operation kind of DOS like operated application, mainly because it is handy for users. I guess Windows theme can serve the same purpose, may be this is what Benoit is explaining about.
-- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu
" It's not as if someone would ask for an OS/2 or a Motif UI theme! There are *LOTS* of people on Windows still !" That is irrelevant really . Thats not how open source works. In open source something maintained or goes in or stays in because someone bothers to code for it. You may get 1 billion users to complain about this and still it wont change a thing. You still need a developer to do the work. Most open source devs like to work on things that they really care about. And is not as if things are better for MacOS user, the watery theme looks very dated , ugly and it is not even compatible with the new dark theme. So in the end it makes sense to use one of the recent themes, either white or dark. Also you are the first to complain about this.If you want to get this fixed the easiest way is to fix it yourself as third party library and add it to the configuration browser for others to use. If you expect for someone else to fix it, you may have to wait for decades and no it wont matter if you get a billion users to agree with you and sign a petition. How many people you think asked for a blue theme in this mailing list ? none . Pharo now has a blue theme because of me, and has no windows theme with so many windows users. How many people use the blue them ? most likely only me. Thats how open source works I am afraid, dont blame Pharo, blame life and the reality we live in :)
Le 03/04/2015 16:21, Marcus Denker a écrit :
right, we removed W2K already for Pharo3.
Itâs 2015...
Still Benoit wrote about users. Do Benoit think about users of a specific Pharo Desktop application? In that case it can have implication upgrading this application to newer Pharo, because destabilizing end user is annoying. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu
yet⦠while I disagree with the idea of having a âwindowsâ theme (or any platform specific theme), I think it would be cool to have an option to flip the control buttons⦠that can work as an extension of current theme, not as a different theme. Problem is âwho does itâ, more than yes or not to have it :) Esteban
On 03 Apr 2015, at 18:09, Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu> wrote:
Le 03/04/2015 16:21, Marcus Denker a écrit :
right, we removed W2K already for Pharo3.
Itâs 2015...
Still Benoit wrote about users. Do Benoit think about users of a specific Pharo Desktop application? In that case it can have implication upgrading this application to newer Pharo, because destabilizing end user is annoying.
Hilaire
-- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu
IMHO, underneath the windows theme argument is the question of the GUI look and feel instability Pharo suffers from one release to another one, this ruin a bit the idea of people willing to design desktop application[1] with Pharo, where consistency in this department is more or less needed. In another hand Phobos may be a better choice then. Best, Hilaire [1] I just had a chat yesterday on IRC with a guy that want to migrate his desktop application to Pharo Le 03/04/2015 18:18, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit :
yet⦠while I disagree with the idea of having a âwindowsâ theme (or any platform specific theme), I think it would be cool to have an option to flip the control buttons⦠that can work as an extension of current theme, not as a different theme. Problem is âwho does itâ, more than yes or not to have it :)
Esteban
-- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu
On 03 Apr 2015, at 18:46, Hilaire <hilaire@drgeo.eu> wrote:
IMHO, underneath the windows theme argument is the question of the GUI look and feel instability Pharo suffers from one release to another one, this ruin a bit the idea of people willing to design desktop application[1] with Pharo, where consistency in this department is more or less needed. In another hand Phobos may be a better choice then.
well, we are not changing it from Pharo3 to Pharo4, nor we have plans to change it for Pharo5⦠:) Esteban
Best,
Hilaire
[1] I just had a chat yesterday on IRC with a guy that want to migrate his desktop application to Pharo
Le 03/04/2015 18:18, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit :
yet⦠while I disagree with the idea of having a âwindowsâ theme (or any platform specific theme), I think it would be cool to have an option to flip the control buttons⦠that can work as an extension of current theme, not as a different theme. Problem is âwho does itâ, more than yes or not to have it :)
Esteban
-- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu
IMHO, underneath the windows theme argument is the question of the GUI look and feel instability Pharo suffers from one release to another one, this ruin a bit the idea of people willing to design desktop application[1] with Pharo, where consistency in this department is more or less needed. In another hand Phobos may be a better choice then.
If I was developing an app where a stable look and feel was necessary, and I wasnât using my own widgets, I would maintain my own theme. AFAIK nothing about the theme /framework/ has changed, just individual themes are no longer part of core. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-4-Beta-first-impressions-tp4817257p4817391.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 1:26 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
IMHO, underneath the windows theme argument is the question of the GUI look and feel instability Pharo suffers from one release to another one, this ruin a bit the idea of people willing to design desktop application[1] with Pharo, where consistency in this department is more or less needed. In another hand Phobos may be a better choice then.
If I was developing an app where a stable look and feel was necessary, and I wasnât using my own widgets, I would maintain my own theme. AFAIK nothing about the theme /framework/ has changed, just individual themes are no longer part of core.
Perhaps in some Release Notes we need to advise where to removed themes can be found outside the image. cheers -ben
participants (6)
-
Ben Coman -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Hilaire -
kilon alios -
Marcus Denker -
Sean P. DeNigris