Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace. Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?" But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool" what do you think? nicolai
I think that there could be confusion about whether Playground is actually Workspace... so why not name the item in world menu as "Workspace / Playground", so it's obvious it is both? Also don't forget that there is keyboard shortcut which now opens Playground instead of Workspace; so some amount of confusion will probably happen anyway. Or maybe have a way to inform the user about the new changes... so maybe a new world menu entry "Pharo 4.0 news/changes/whatever"? Or just put some release notes on Pharo.org. If someone opens new MAJOR release then changes and BC breaks are to be expected, otherwise what would be the point of a major release. Peter On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
nicolai
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
I think that this is the way I want things to be in Pharo4. If we get the Playground only, I want a way to get the workspace as a loadable configuration. Phil
nicolai
Hi, The Workspace is in the image. The only discussion is about the title of the menu item. When the Playground is enabled, the menu should show Playground instead of Workspace. And when the Workspace is enabled, it should show Workspace. The slice in this direction is on my to do list. Cheers, Doru On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:52 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
I think that this is the way I want things to be in Pharo4.
If we get the Playground only, I want a way to get the workspace as a loadable configuration.
Phil
nicolai
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
My usage pattern is not that. I have GTPlayground disabled in the settings and GTInspector enabled (Pharo3 here). And I've made a keybinding to open the playground. And use Alt-o Alt-w for getting a workspace. So, I do use both. And not "one or the other". Phil On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
The Workspace is in the image. The only discussion is about the title of the menu item.
When the Playground is enabled, the menu should show Playground instead of Workspace. And when the Workspace is enabled, it should show Workspace. The slice in this direction is on my to do list.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:52 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
I think that this is the way I want things to be in Pharo4.
If we get the Playground only, I want a way to get the workspace as a loadable configuration.
Phil
nicolai
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
That is great. And you even have a solution for your problem. Both of these will remain in the image for Pharo 4, so that solution will work. However, the menu is also the entry point for newcomers. We should not bombard them with choices that distract them from their goal of experiencing Pharo. Cheers, Doru On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:20 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
My usage pattern is not that.
I have GTPlayground disabled in the settings and GTInspector enabled (Pharo3 here).
And I've made a keybinding to open the playground. And use Alt-o Alt-w for getting a workspace.
So, I do use both. And not "one or the other".
Phil
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
The Workspace is in the image. The only discussion is about the title of the menu item.
When the Playground is enabled, the menu should show Playground instead of Workspace. And when the Workspace is enabled, it should show Workspace. The slice in this direction is on my to do list.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:52 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de>
wrote:
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
I think that this is the way I want things to be in Pharo4.
If we get the Playground only, I want a way to get the workspace as a loadable configuration.
Phil
nicolai
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
That is great. And you even have a solution for your problem. Both of these will remain in the image for Pharo 4, so that solution will work.
However, the menu is also the entry point for newcomers. We should not bombard them with choices that distract them from their goal of experiencing Pharo.
Yes so please fix the tab label :)
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:20 PM, phil@highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> <phil@highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be>> wrote:
My usage pattern is not that.
I have GTPlayground disabled in the settings and GTInspector enabled (Pharo3 here).
And I've made a keybinding to open the playground. And use Alt-o Alt-w for getting a workspace.
So, I do use both. And not "one or the other".
Phil
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: > Hi, > > The Workspace is in the image. The only discussion is about the title of the > menu item. > > When the Playground is enabled, the menu should show Playground instead of > Workspace. And when the Workspace is enabled, it should show Workspace. The > slice in this direction is on my to do list. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:52 PM, phil@highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> <phil@highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be>> > wrote: >> >> On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>> wrote: >> > Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest >> > to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for >> > the old workspace. >> > >> > Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be >> > some >> > complaining >> > like this: >> > (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) >> > -> "Hey where is my workspace?" >> > >> > But instead I would like a >> > Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: >> > and the feedback: >> > -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool" >> > >> > what do you think? >> >> I think that this is the way I want things to be in Pharo4. >> >> If we get the Playground only, I want a way to get the workspace as a >> loadable configuration. >> >> Phil >> >> > >> > >> > nicolai >> > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> > > "Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com>
"Every thing has its own flow"
We are working on it, and it will be fixed. Doru On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:35 PM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
That is great. And you even have a solution for your problem. Both of these will remain in the image for Pharo 4, so that solution will work.
However, the menu is also the entry point for newcomers. We should not bombard them with choices that distract them from their goal of experiencing Pharo.
Yes so please fix the tab label :)
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:20 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
My usage pattern is not that.
I have GTPlayground disabled in the settings and GTInspector enabled (Pharo3 here).
And I've made a keybinding to open the playground. And use Alt-o Alt-w for getting a workspace.
So, I do use both. And not "one or the other".
Phil
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
The Workspace is in the image. The only discussion is about the title of the menu item.
When the Playground is enabled, the menu should show Playground instead of Workspace. And when the Workspace is enabled, it should show Workspace. The slice in this direction is on my to do list.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:52 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be
wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de>
wrote:
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
I think that this is the way I want things to be in Pharo4.
If we get the Playground only, I want a way to get the workspace as a loadable configuration.
Phil
nicolai
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
Am 15.03.2015 um 22:35 schrieb stepharo <stepharo@free.fr>:
That is great. And you even have a solution for your problem. Both of these will remain in the image for Pharo 4, so that solution will work.
However, the menu is also the entry point for newcomers. We should not bombard them with choices that distract them from their goal of experiencing Pharo.
Yes so please fix the tab label :)
+1 (sorry, Doru :) )
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:20 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote: My usage pattern is not that.
I have GTPlayground disabled in the settings and GTInspector enabled (Pharo3 here).
And I've made a keybinding to open the playground. And use Alt-o Alt-w for getting a workspace.
So, I do use both. And not "one or the other".
Phil
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
The Workspace is in the image. The only discussion is about the title of the menu item.
When the Playground is enabled, the menu should show Playground instead of Workspace. And when the Workspace is enabled, it should show Workspace. The slice in this direction is on my to do list.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:52 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
I think that this is the way I want things to be in Pharo4.
If we get the Playground only, I want a way to get the workspace as a loadable configuration.
Phil
nicolai
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Why sorry? Doru On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:24 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 15.03.2015 um 22:35 schrieb stepharo <stepharo@free.fr>:
That is great. And you even have a solution for your problem. Both of these will remain in the image for Pharo 4, so that solution will work.
However, the menu is also the entry point for newcomers. We should not bombard them with choices that distract them from their goal of experiencing Pharo.
Yes so please fix the tab label :)
+1 (sorry, Doru :) )
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:20 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
My usage pattern is not that.
I have GTPlayground disabled in the settings and GTInspector enabled (Pharo3 here).
And I've made a keybinding to open the playground. And use Alt-o Alt-w for getting a workspace.
So, I do use both. And not "one or the other".
Phil
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
The Workspace is in the image. The only discussion is about the title of the menu item.
When the Playground is enabled, the menu should show Playground instead of Workspace. And when the Workspace is enabled, it should show Workspace. The slice in this direction is on my to do list.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:52 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be
wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de>
wrote:
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
I think that this is the way I want things to be in Pharo4.
If we get the Playground only, I want a way to get the workspace as a loadable configuration.
Phil
nicolai
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
I *really* do not understand why people make such a fuss about this. If you open a Playground and never do 'Do it and go', but instead keep on using 'Do it' and 'Inspect it', the second pane never opens and there is hardly any difference. You can keep using it as a notebook. But you do get the much nicer 'Print it' and so many other things. It took me some getting used to as well, but now I hardly notice the difference.
On 16 Mar 2015, at 08:31, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Why sorry?
Doru
On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:24 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 15.03.2015 um 22:35 schrieb stepharo <stepharo@free.fr>:
That is great. And you even have a solution for your problem. Both of these will remain in the image for Pharo 4, so that solution will work.
However, the menu is also the entry point for newcomers. We should not bombard them with choices that distract them from their goal of experiencing Pharo.
Yes so please fix the tab label :)
+1 (sorry, Doru :) )
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:20 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote: My usage pattern is not that.
I have GTPlayground disabled in the settings and GTInspector enabled (Pharo3 here).
And I've made a keybinding to open the playground. And use Alt-o Alt-w for getting a workspace.
So, I do use both. And not "one or the other".
Phil
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
The Workspace is in the image. The only discussion is about the title of the menu item.
When the Playground is enabled, the menu should show Playground instead of Workspace. And when the Workspace is enabled, it should show Workspace. The slice in this direction is on my to do list.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:52 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
I think that this is the way I want things to be in Pharo4.
If we get the Playground only, I want a way to get the workspace as a loadable configuration.
Phil
nicolai
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Am 16.03.2015 um 10:00 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
I *really* do not understand why people make such a fuss about this.
Ok, you really don't understand it. So? You don't have to understand everything! :)
If you open a Playground and never do 'Do it and go', but instead keep on using 'Do it' and 'Inspect it', the second pane never opens and there is hardly any difference. You can keep using it as a notebook.
I think the tab header is disturbing me the most. It makes the UI look like a more heavy tool. The timestamp in the tab doesn't make it better :)
But you do get the much nicer 'Print it' and so many other things.
It took me some getting used to as well, but now I hardly notice the difference.
Yes, but we all are different. I use it for some time but still don't feel it being ok. But then I'm not totally clear what I want. I like to have a notebook probably where text is default and code needs markup (not sure). And I'm not sure if it is a good idea to have one tool here. Maybe the focus on playground and notebook are different. We'll see. Norbert
On 16 Mar 2015, at 08:31, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Why sorry?
Doru
On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:24 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 15.03.2015 um 22:35 schrieb stepharo <stepharo@free.fr>:
That is great. And you even have a solution for your problem. Both of these will remain in the image for Pharo 4, so that solution will work.
However, the menu is also the entry point for newcomers. We should not bombard them with choices that distract them from their goal of experiencing Pharo.
Yes so please fix the tab label :)
+1 (sorry, Doru :) )
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:20 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote: My usage pattern is not that.
I have GTPlayground disabled in the settings and GTInspector enabled (Pharo3 here).
And I've made a keybinding to open the playground. And use Alt-o Alt-w for getting a workspace.
So, I do use both. And not "one or the other".
Phil
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
The Workspace is in the image. The only discussion is about the title of the menu item.
When the Playground is enabled, the menu should show Playground instead of Workspace. And when the Workspace is enabled, it should show Workspace. The slice in this direction is on my to do list.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:52 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
I think that this is the way I want things to be in Pharo4.
If we get the Playground only, I want a way to get the workspace as a loadable configuration.
Phil
nicolai
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
Le 16/3/15 10:22, Norbert Hartl a écrit :
I think the tab header is disturbing me the most. It makes the UI look like a more heavy tool. The timestamp in the tab doesn't make it better :) And I do not want to have to change updated pharo yet another time or video just because of that. And I do not want to have to write (this is a timestamp and we do not know why).
May be we should call the tab label 'Start' or 'Home' and this is done. I'm doing screenshots for a future lecture I get this %^$%&^*(&)*((*)^&( timestamp right in the middle. and of course I will be the idiot redoing the screenshots. :( So if this is not addressed tomorrow I will just propose a fix with 'Start' this is at least two months that I raised this problem. Stef Le 16/3/15 21:16, stepharo a écrit :
Le 16/3/15 10:22, Norbert Hartl a écrit :
I think the tab header is disturbing me the most. It makes the UI look like a more heavy tool. The timestamp in the tab doesn't make it better :) And I do not want to have to change updated pharo yet another time or video just because of that. And I do not want to have to write (this is a timestamp and we do not know why).
I think you should update your Pharo image :) Doru On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 9:34 PM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:
May be we should call the tab label
'Start' or 'Home'
and this is done. I'm doing screenshots for a future lecture I get this %^$%&^*(&)*((*)^&( timestamp right in the middle. and of course I will be the idiot redoing the screenshots. :(
So if this is not addressed tomorrow I will just propose a fix with 'Start' this is at least two months that I raised this problem.
Stef
Le 16/3/15 21:16, stepharo a écrit :
Le 16/3/15 10:22, Norbert Hartl a écrit :
I think the tab header is disturbing me the most. It makes the UI look like a more heavy tool. The timestamp in the tab doesn't make it better :)
And I do not want to have to change updated pharo yet another time or video just because of that. And I do not want to have to write (this is a timestamp and we do not know why).
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
But it should change anyway. There shouldn't be a tab header at all. Is it that hard to display tab headers only if there is more than one? Norbert
Am 18.03.2015 um 21:34 schrieb stepharo <stepharo@free.fr>:
May be we should call the tab label
'Start' or 'Home'
and this is done. I'm doing screenshots for a future lecture I get this %^$%&^*(&)*((*)^&( timestamp right in the middle. and of course I will be the idiot redoing the screenshots. :(
So if this is not addressed tomorrow I will just propose a fix with 'Start' this is at least two months that I raised this problem.
Stef
Le 16/3/15 21:16, stepharo a écrit :
Le 16/3/15 10:22, Norbert Hartl a écrit :
I think the tab header is disturbing me the most. It makes the UI look like a more heavy tool. The timestamp in the tab doesn't make it better :) And I do not want to have to change updated pharo yet another time or video just because of that. And I do not want to have to write (this is a timestamp and we do not know why).
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 10:28 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
But it should change anyway. There shouldn't be a tab header at all. Is it that hard to display tab headers only if there is more than one?
But where should action buttons (do it, remote publish, menu) then be? Cheers, Alex
What is wrong with this: 2015-03-18 22:32 GMT+01:00 Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 10:28 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
But it should change anyway. There shouldn't be a tab header at all. Is it that hard to display tab headers only if there is more than one?
But where should action buttons (do it, remote publish, menu) then be?
Cheers, Alex
Am 18.03.2015 um 23:05 schrieb Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 10:51 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote: What is wrong with this:
Nothing serious, just horrible ugliness (imho)
That depends on the needed space of the extra elements. might be solvable in a different way. IMHO every additional visual element that doesn't serve a purpose just clutters the view and makes it harder to use. A tab header is always ugly to me but as long as I gain ease of use I can live with it. Norbert
2015-03-16 10:00 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
I *really* do not understand why people make such a fuss about this.
it is not about me, I can live with that. What I don't want are extensive discussion after the release: "Why did you remove the Workspace"
If you open a Playground and never do 'Do it and go', but instead keep on using 'Do it' and 'Inspect it', the second pane never opens and there is hardly any difference. You can keep using it as a notebook.
But you do get the much nicer 'Print it' and so many other things.
It took me some getting used to as well, but now I hardly notice the difference.
On 16 Mar 2015, at 08:31, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Why sorry?
Doru
On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:24 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 15.03.2015 um 22:35 schrieb stepharo <stepharo@free.fr>:
That is great. And you even have a solution for your problem. Both of
these will remain in the image for Pharo 4, so that solution will work.
However, the menu is also the entry point for newcomers. We should not
bombard them with choices that distract them from their goal of experiencing Pharo.
Yes so please fix the tab label :)
+1 (sorry, Doru :) )
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:20 PM, phil@highoctane.be <
phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
My usage pattern is not that.
I have GTPlayground disabled in the settings and GTInspector enabled (Pharo3 here).
And I've made a keybinding to open the playground. And use Alt-o Alt-w for getting a workspace.
So, I do use both. And not "one or the other".
Phil
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
The Workspace is in the image. The only discussion is about the title of the menu item.
When the Playground is enabled, the menu should show Playground instead of Workspace. And when the Workspace is enabled, it should show Workspace. The slice in this direction is on my to do list.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:52 PM, phil@highoctane.be < phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de>
wrote:
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
I think that this is the way I want things to be in Pharo4.
If we get the Playground only, I want a way to get the workspace as a loadable configuration.
Phil
nicolai
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
On 16 Mar 2015, at 10:38, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2015-03-16 10:00 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>: I *really* do not understand why people make such a fuss about this.
it is not about me, I can live with that. What I don't want are extensive discussion after the release: "Why did you remove the Workspace"
I know. It is like someone said before: if we don't have anything new, why release a new version at all ?
If you open a Playground and never do 'Do it and go', but instead keep on using 'Do it' and 'Inspect it', the second pane never opens and there is hardly any difference. You can keep using it as a notebook.
But you do get the much nicer 'Print it' and so many other things.
It took me some getting used to as well, but now I hardly notice the difference.
On 16 Mar 2015, at 08:31, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Why sorry?
Doru
On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:24 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 15.03.2015 um 22:35 schrieb stepharo <stepharo@free.fr>:
That is great. And you even have a solution for your problem. Both of these will remain in the image for Pharo 4, so that solution will work.
However, the menu is also the entry point for newcomers. We should not bombard them with choices that distract them from their goal of experiencing Pharo.
Yes so please fix the tab label :)
+1 (sorry, Doru :) )
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:20 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote: My usage pattern is not that.
I have GTPlayground disabled in the settings and GTInspector enabled (Pharo3 here).
And I've made a keybinding to open the playground. And use Alt-o Alt-w for getting a workspace.
So, I do use both. And not "one or the other".
Phil
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
The Workspace is in the image. The only discussion is about the title of the menu item.
When the Playground is enabled, the menu should show Playground instead of Workspace. And when the Workspace is enabled, it should show Workspace. The slice in this direction is on my to do list.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:52 PM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
I think that this is the way I want things to be in Pharo4.
If we get the Playground only, I want a way to get the workspace as a loadable configuration.
Phil
nicolai
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
There were complaints when Playground replaced Workspace as the default in the Pharo4-HEAD - even I, but I believe actually it was the right thing during "development" of Pharo 4 so that it got the wide exposure and feedback it needed for it to become a quality core tool. I think that was okay to "force" those of us happy to live on the bleeding edge - but the Release has a wider audience that is not necessarily so adaptable. I am thinking hypothetically where (teaching) organisations may turn off Playground so that existing documentation doesn't need updating - such that users now miss the opportunity to explore Playground. If there was both Playground and Workspace on the world-menu, the even though the documentation examples use workspace, users can explore using Playground on their own. Its common practice to overlap the addition and removal of tools - like a staged deprecation strategy. Maybe Pharo 5 can remove Workspace. cheers -ben On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 16 Mar 2015, at 10:38, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2015-03-16 10:00 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>: I *really* do not understand why people make such a fuss about this.
it is not about me, I can live with that. What I don't want are extensive discussion after the release: "Why did you remove the Workspace"
I know.
It is like someone said before: if we don't have anything new, why release a new version at all ?
If you open a Playground and never do 'Do it and go', but instead keep on using 'Do it' and 'Inspect it', the second pane never opens and there is hardly any difference. You can keep using it as a notebook.
But you do get the much nicer 'Print it' and so many other things.
It took me some getting used to as well, but now I hardly notice the difference.
On 16 Mar 2015, at 08:31, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Why sorry?
Doru
On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:24 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 15.03.2015 um 22:35 schrieb stepharo <stepharo@free.fr>:
That is great. And you even have a solution for your problem. Both
of these will remain in the image for Pharo 4, so that solution will work.
However, the menu is also the entry point for newcomers. We should
not bombard them with choices that distract them from their goal of experiencing Pharo.
Yes so please fix the tab label :)
+1 (sorry, Doru :) )
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:20 PM, phil@highoctane.be <
phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
My usage pattern is not that.
I have GTPlayground disabled in the settings and GTInspector enabled (Pharo3 here).
And I've made a keybinding to open the playground. And use Alt-o Alt-w for getting a workspace.
So, I do use both. And not "one or the other".
Phil
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi,
The Workspace is in the image. The only discussion is about the title of the menu item.
When the Playground is enabled, the menu should show Playground instead of Workspace. And when the Workspace is enabled, it should show Workspace. The slice in this direction is on my to do list.
Cheers, Doru
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:52 PM, phil@highoctane.be < phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de>
wrote:
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
I think that this is the way I want things to be in Pharo4.
If we get the Playground only, I want a way to get the workspace as a loadable configuration.
Phil
nicolai
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
+1 Especially because I will start working on a mooc and videos and I would like to have a stable part. Stef Le 15/3/15 19:03, Nicolai Hess a écrit :
Although it is difficult to find a agreement for this, I suggest to add a menu entry "Playground" and reuse the entry "Workspace" for the old workspace.
Soon we will have a new Pharo release. And I am afraid there will be some complaining like this: (Only on Workspace menu item that opens GTPlayground) -> "Hey where is my workspace?"
But instead I would like a Workspace menu item opens Workspace / Playground opens GTPlayground: and the feedback: -> "Hey, GTPlayground is so cool"
what do you think?
nicolai
participants (9)
-
Aliaksei Syrel -
Ben Coman -
Nicolai Hess -
Norbert Hartl -
Peter Uhnák -
phil＠highoctane.be -
stepharo -
Sven Van Caekenberghe -
Tudor Girba