[Pharo-project] multiple native windows
Besides programming effort, is there a reason why squeak/pharo shouldn't consider going to a GUI model that includes real multiple native windows? I'm not a c/c++ programmer and wouldn't know where to begin with that piece, but inside of smalltalk it seems it wouldn't be all that difficult of a refactoring. I only bring this up as this would put pharo/squeak more in line with many other conventional languages (with respect to user interfaces), and get it "back in the game" so to speak for when technologies are being considered for business solutions. You could include in this 1) Native support for drag and drop and 2) support for embedded native controls. Something like SWT and Jide now both support. Sorry if I've overlooked something with this and the con is obvious. thanks sw
Besides programming effort, is there a reason why squeak/pharo shouldn't consider going to a GUI model that includes real multiple native windows?
I would love to have that we should have a look at ffenestria and fix it. So this is just that somebody should do it.
I'm not a c/c++ programmer and wouldn't know where to begin with that piece, but inside of smalltalk it seems it wouldn't be all that difficult of a refactoring.
I only bring this up as this would put pharo/squeak more in line with many other conventional languages (with respect to user interfaces), and get it "back in the game" so to speak for when technologies are being considered for business solutions.
You could include in this 1) Native support for drag and drop and 2) support for embedded native controls. Something like SWT and Jide now both support.
Sorry if I've overlooked something with this and the con is obvious.
thanks sw
Stef
Steve Wirts wrote:
Besides programming effort, is there a reason why squeak/pharo shouldn't consider going to a GUI model that includes real multiple native windows?
Yes, Morphic ;-) Would be pretty hard to make it work with multiple windows. At least that's the consensus... The infrastructure is basically in place and has been used for prototypes. Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?). Michael
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote:
Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/elegantly with multiple windows. On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote:
Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
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Perhaps you can join forces with the rest of the present alternatives. For example, *squeakgtk* I think there is a lot of people that wants native windows so that being able to create desktop applications. Cheers, Mariano 2009/6/11 Steve Wirts <stevewirts@gmail.com>
If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/elegantly with multiple windows.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote:
Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
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Thanks Mariano, I wasn't aware of squeakgtk. It looks like this project (a large project) is trying to create a toolkit of heavyweight controls for squeakers. Something similar to wxSqueak. I'm thinking of something different; all the widget implementation should be left to pharo, morphic is great, and there already exists lots of gui code. I believe the only thing we would need would be the ability create and control a native window(decorated and undecorated), not every kind of native widget. 2009/6/11 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com>
Perhaps you can join forces with the rest of the present alternatives. For example, *squeakgtk*
I think there is a lot of people that wants native windows so that being able to create desktop applications.
Cheers,
Mariano
2009/6/11 Steve Wirts <stevewirts@gmail.com>
If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and
control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/elegantly with multiple windows.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote:
Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
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I tried wxsqueak. Demos ar really good, and populating a grid with miliions of rows is very fast, however you have to turn your mind to build so defensively... I crashed the wm 3 to 4 times in around 4 hours - effort,m then I gave up. -----Mensaje original----- De: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr]En nombre de Mariano Martinez Peck Enviado el: Jueves, 11 de Junio de 2009 12:25 p.m. Para: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Asunto: Re: [Pharo-project] multiple native windows Perhaps you can join forces with the rest of the present alternatives. For example, squeakgtk I think there is a lot of people that wants native windows so that being able to create desktop applications. Cheers, Mariano 2009/6/11 Steve Wirts <stevewirts@gmail.com> If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/elegantly with multiple windows. On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com> wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote: > Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I > think?). Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need to have an email clients between two code browsers. As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically different habits when programming. Even for simple things. Interesting. Cheers, Alexandre On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote:
If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ elegantly with multiple windows.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote: Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Alexandre Bergel wrote:
I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need to have an email clients between two code browsers. As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically different habits when programming. Even for simple things. Interesting.
Indeed. Alos worth noting that the Adobe suite of products basically uses the Squeak mode. But, there is still a case for native windows and if only for dialog boxes ;-) Usage across multiple screens is another argument for having the technical ability for multiple windows. Michael
Indeed. Alos worth noting that the Adobe suite of products basically uses the Squeak mode. But, there is still a case for native windows and if only for dialog boxes ;-) Usage across multiple screens is another argument for having the technical ability for multiple windows.
Exactly, having native windows is something important. However, I think one should use to have pharo windows gathered or not. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, meaning pharo supported both? A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the possibility of creating a different class of applications. Alot of my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Having a smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company. thanks sw On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre@bergel.eu>wrote:
I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need to have an email clients between two code browsers. As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically different habits when programming. Even for simple things. Interesting.
Cheers, Alexandre
On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote:
If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ elegantly with multiple windows.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote: Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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In Newspeak, a dedicated icon enable to switch mode. Quite convenient. Cheers, Alexandre On 11 Jun 2009, at 12:02, Steve Wirts wrote:
Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, meaning pharo supported both? A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the possibility of creating a different class of applications. Alot of my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Having a smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company.
thanks sw
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre@bergel.eu
wrote:
I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need to have an email clients between two code browsers. As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically different habits when programming. Even for simple things. Interesting.
Cheers, Alexandre
On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote:
If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ elegantly with multiple windows.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote: Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, meaning pharo supported both?
sure.
A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the possibility of creating a different class of applications. Alot of my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Having a smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company.
I really think that if somebody would work on ffenestria we would integrate it.
thanks sw
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre@bergel.eu
wrote:
I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need to have an email clients between two code browsers. As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically different habits when programming. Even for simple things. Interesting.
Cheers, Alexandre
On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote:
If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ elegantly with multiple windows.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote: Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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what is ffenestria? links? On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr
wrote:
Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, meaning pharo supported both?
sure.
A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the possibility of creating a different class of applications. Alot of my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Having a smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company.
I really think that if somebody would work on ffenestria we would integrate it.
thanks sw
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre@bergel.eu
wrote:
I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need to have an email clients between two code browsers. As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically different habits when programming. Even for simple things. Interesting.
Cheers, Alexandre
On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote:
If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ elegantly with multiple windows.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <
damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote: Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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I thought it was someone's name at first :) http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3862 This looks right to me, thanks for the heads up stef. I don't see where there is any code available however. A concrete starting point might be with vm primitives for creating and controlling native windows; once these are in place, it is a matter of creating a small pharo codebase to manage the OS resources(ffenestria), and drawing to them through primitives via the GraphicsContext (bitblitting of course). I would think that most everything in morphic would continue to work as is. does this make sense? If the primitives existed, I could help out, but not being a c/c++ programmer I am at a disadvantage here. 2009/6/11 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com>
what is ffenestria? links?
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Stéphane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, meaning pharo supported both?
sure.
A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the possibility of creating a different class of applications. Alot of my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Having a smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company.
I really think that if somebody would work on ffenestria we would integrate it.
thanks sw
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre@bergel.eu
wrote:
I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need to have an email clients between two code browsers. As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically different habits when programming. Even for simple things. Interesting.
Cheers, Alexandre
On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote:
If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ elegantly with multiple windows.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <
damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote: Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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On Jun 11, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Steve Wirts wrote:
I thought it was someone's name at first :)
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3862
This looks right to me, thanks for the heads up stef. I don't see where there is any code available however. A concrete starting point might be with vm primitives for creating and controlling native windows; once these are in place, it is a matter of creating a small pharo codebase to manage the OS resources(ffenestria), and drawing to them through primitives via the GraphicsContext (bitblitting of course). I would think that most everything in morphic would continue to work as is.
does this make sense?
If the primitives existed, I could help out, but not being a c/c++ programmer I am at a disadvantage here.
2009/6/11 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> what is ffenestria? links?
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr
wrote:
Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, meaning pharo supported both?
sure.
A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the possibility of creating a different class of applications. Alot of my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Having a smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company.
I really think that if somebody would work on ffenestria we would integrate it.
thanks sw
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre@bergel.eu
wrote:
I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have
embedded
morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need to have an email clients between two code browsers. As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically different habits when programming. Even for simple things. Interesting.
Cheers, Alexandre
On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote:
If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ elegantly with multiple windows.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote: Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- project
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-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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I'll note the Ffenestri.zip has both the Ffenestri and the HostMenu os- x logic in it. You'll need to be careful and only integrate the Ffenestri logic since the HostMenu logic already was integrated into Pharo and was updated for the new sensor logic so likely loading the "HostMenus-Base.2.cs" for example will break your image. On 11-Jun-09, at 11:35 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
<Ffenestri.zip>
-- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================
thanks john stef On Jun 11, 2009, at 8:40 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:
I'll note the Ffenestri.zip has both the Ffenestri and the HostMenu os- x logic in it. You'll need to be careful and only integrate the Ffenestri logic since the HostMenu logic already was integrated into Pharo and was updated for the new sensor logic so likely loading the "HostMenus-Base.2.cs" for example will break your image.
On 11-Jun-09, at 11:35 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
<Ffenestri.zip>
-- = = = = = ====================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = = = ======================================================================
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2009/6/11 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, meaning pharo supported both?
sure.
A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the possibility of creating a different class of applications. Â Alot of my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Â Having a smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company.
I really think that if somebody would work on ffenestria we would integrate it.
Do you remember, i started it. Still i don't released anything. But the idea is to move all windowing code into a new plugin , which will have an inherent support of controlling native windows (& events) from image side.
thanks sw
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre@bergel.eu
wrote:
I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need to have an email clients between two code browsers. As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically different habits when programming. Even for simple things. Interesting.
Cheers, Alexandre
On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote:
If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ elegantly with multiple windows.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote: Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
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-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
So publish something and aks for people to join so that for pharo 1.1 we get it :) Stef
Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, meaning pharo supported both?
sure.
A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the possibility of creating a different class of applications. Alot of my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Having a smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company.
I really think that if somebody would work on ffenestria we would integrate it.
Do you remember, i started it. Still i don't released anything. But the idea is to move all windowing code into a new plugin , which will have an inherent support of controlling native windows (& events) from image side.
thanks sw
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre@bergel.eu
wrote:
I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need to have an email clients between two code browsers. As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically different habits when programming. Even for simple things. Interesting.
Cheers, Alexandre
On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote:
If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ elegantly with multiple windows.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote: Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
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-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
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2009/6/12 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
So publish something and aks for people to join so that for pharo 1.1 we get it :)
i will publish it, when i'll have an integration/VM platform code refactoring done. Currently new plugin can just create/manipulate host windows and having an API to access different window properties from image side, declared by plugin (different platforms/OS window managers can provide different sets of properties).
Stef
Would it be ok if this was configurable via a user preference, meaning pharo supported both?
sure.
A VisualWorks multiple-native-window capability would open up the possibility of creating a different class of applications. Â Alot of my work revolves around integration with legacy systems. Â Having a smalltalk with multiple native windows would allow me to more seamlessly introduce it into the world of tools at my company.
I really think that if somebody would work on ffenestria we would integrate it.
Do you remember, i started it. Still i don't released anything. But the idea is to move all windowing code into a new plugin , which will have an inherent support of controlling native windows (& events) from image side.
thanks sw
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre@bergel.eu
wrote:
I used Visualworks and Squeak, and frankly, I prefer to have embedded morphic windows in a unique native window, as it is now in Pharo. Application switching is easier in my opinion and I do not feel a need to have an email clients between two code browsers. As the discussion on save and quit testified, people have radically different habits when programming. Even for simple things. Interesting.
Cheers, Alexandre
On 11 Jun 2009, at 10:58, Steve Wirts wrote:
If the primitives existed in pharo that would allow someone to create and control native windows, I would be more than happy to take the time to try and massage morphic into working cleanly/ elegantly with multiple windows.
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com
wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Michael Rueger<m.rueger@acm.org> wrote: Also the GTK bindings and Newspeak use native windows (I think?).
Newspeak uses either native or morphic windows, depending on the wishes of the user.
-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry
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-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
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-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
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-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
participants (9)
-
Alexandre Bergel -
Carlos Crosetti -
Damien Cassou -
Igor Stasenko -
John M McIntosh -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Michael Rueger -
Steve Wirts -
Stéphane Ducasse