Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello - the missing information??
Bill, This has been discussed before and there is development underway for Loader which is aimed at providing a scripting API for Metacello. You are hitting the nail on the head, but the nail isn't quite ready to be hit:) Dale ----- "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote: | Doru, | | This thread over the past couple of days contains the answers, but | briefly, IMHO, the current deployment of Metacello is underspecified | and overly complicated. It begs for better factoring in the interest | of the end user. If nothing else, take an honest look at the various | multi-line snippets in the beginner workspace. Each should | comfortably fit on one line; helper methods could readily get us there | for most configurations. The ones that do not fit a simple scheme | would benefit from some additional behavior. | | Bill | | | -----Original Message----- | From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of | Tudor Girba | Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:40 PM | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello - the missing information?? | | Hi, | | I think I missed a mail because I do not understand what is a moving | target and I do not know what you mean by "as I said". | | Cheers, | Doru | | | On 7 Feb 2010, at 19:26, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: | | > As I said, a moving target. I know it is not necessarily easy, but | if | > this is to work we must have either self-describing configurations | or | > a central repository. | > | > | > | > | > | > -----Original Message----- | > From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > ] On Behalf Of Tudor Girba | > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:19 PM | > To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello - the missing information?? | > | > Hi, | > | > This happens because you do not have the latest ProfStef. to get it, | | > you have to load ProfStef-Core. In the process of checking the | > latest version I also updated both ProfStef-Core and GTProfStef to | | > cope with the latest developments. | > | > Cheers, | > Doru | > | > On 7 Feb 2010, at 14:58, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: | > | >> In an RC2 image, GTProfStef open gives | >> | >> DNU #goOn:viewedWith: | >> | >> After all of: | >> | >> Gofer new | >> squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; | >> package: 'ConfigurationOfMetacello'; | >> load. | >> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfMetacello) perform: | >> #loadLatestVersion. | >> | >> ConfigurationOfMetacello project latestVersion load: | #('Tutorial'). | >> | >> | >> Gofer new | >> squeaksource: 'glamoroust'; | >> package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamoroust'; | >> load. | >> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGlamoroust) perform: #loadDefault. | >> | >> ________________________________________ | >> From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >> ] On Behalf Of laurent laffont [laurent.laffont@gmail.com] | >> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 4:06 AM | >> To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello - the missing information?? | >> | >> 2010/2/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K | >> <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu | >>>> | >> The closest thing I see in the tutorial (assuming it is working as | >> intended) is a mention of baseline configurations. If that is in | | >> fact | >> how things can work, there should be an abstract super class for | all | >> configurations (or at least a trait they all use to avoid | duplicate | >> code) and a method that loads the baseline. | >> | >> ProfStef would be a lot more useful if it made use of Polymorph: a | >> table of contents in a left pane, select an item and the righ pane | >> shows the content, actions replaced with buttons rather than | >> forcing a | >> lot of right-clicking. To the extent that those things are | >> difficult, | >> we need easy-to-use tree models. From what I have been able to | >> figure | >> out of the tutorial, a wiki page would be more helpful and more | >> likely | >> to be read. If you "force" loading of code, then there should be | | >> some | >> benefit in the form of interaction. | >> | >> Danny Chan has written ProfStefBrowser (in the same repository as | >> ProfStef) which has both browsing and interactive (ProfStef next) | >> capabilities. | >> Tudor Girba has also written a proof-of-concept using Glamour: | >> Gofer new | >> squeaksource: 'glamoroust'; | >> package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamoroust'; | >> load. | >> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGlamoroust) perform: #loadDefault. | >> | >> And then: | >> GTProfStef open | >> | >> (You spawn the new lesson by command+o) | >> | >> Cheers | >> | >> Laurent Laffont | >> | >> | >> My question stands. | >> | >> Bill | >> | >> | >> ________________________________ | >> From: | >> pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project- | >> bounc | >> es@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>> | >>> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo- | | >>> proj | >>> ect-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck | >> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:52 PM | >> To: | >> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo- | >> project@lists.gforge. | >> inria.fr | >>> | >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello - the missing information?? | >> | >> | >> | >> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K | >> <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu <mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: | >> For any given cofiguration, how does one know which version to | load? | >> There are incantations in the beginner workspace, but what happens | | >> for | >> things not listed there? | >> | >> | >> You must know about Metacello. As you can noticed, that's why I | >> added the link to the tutorial. | >> | >> Bill | >> | >> _______________________________________________ | >> Pharo-project mailing list | >> | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>> | >> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >> | >> | >> _______________________________________________ | >> Pharo-project mailing list | >> | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>> | >> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >> | >> | >> _______________________________________________ | >> Pharo-project mailing list | >> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | > | > -- | > www.tudorgirba.com | > | > "When people care, great things can happen." | > | > | > | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Pharo-project mailing list | > Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Pharo-project mailing list | > Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | | -- | www.tudorgirba.com | | "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at | them." | | | | | _______________________________________________ | Pharo-project mailing list | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | | _______________________________________________ | Pharo-project mailing list | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Dale, That's fair. Is loader aimed at the producers of configurations, or is it only about scripting the load/cusumer side? Every time I think I have a generic solution for loading them, I find something else that does not quite fit. If you can do it all from the existing configurations, more power to you - I enjoy being wrong about things like that :) Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Dale Henrichs Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 3:58 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Cc: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello - the missing information?? Bill, This has been discussed before and there is development underway for Loader which is aimed at providing a scripting API for Metacello. You are hitting the nail on the head, but the nail isn't quite ready to be hit:) Dale ----- "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote: | Doru, | | This thread over the past couple of days contains the answers, but | briefly, IMHO, the current deployment of Metacello is underspecified | and overly complicated. It begs for better factoring in the interest | of the end user. If nothing else, take an honest look at the various | multi-line snippets in the beginner workspace. Each should | comfortably fit on one line; helper methods could readily get us there | for most configurations. The ones that do not fit a simple scheme | would benefit from some additional behavior. | | Bill | | | -----Original Message----- | From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of | Tudor Girba | Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:40 PM | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello - the missing information?? | | Hi, | | I think I missed a mail because I do not understand what is a moving | target and I do not know what you mean by "as I said". | | Cheers, | Doru | | | On 7 Feb 2010, at 19:26, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: | | > As I said, a moving target. I know it is not necessarily easy, but | if | > this is to work we must have either self-describing configurations | or | > a central repository. | > | > | > | > | > | > -----Original Message----- | > From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > ] On Behalf Of Tudor Girba | > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:19 PM | > To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello - the missing information?? | > | > Hi, | > | > This happens because you do not have the latest ProfStef. to get it, | | > you have to load ProfStef-Core. In the process of checking the | > latest version I also updated both ProfStef-Core and GTProfStef to | | > cope with the latest developments. | > | > Cheers, | > Doru | > | > On 7 Feb 2010, at 14:58, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: | > | >> In an RC2 image, GTProfStef open gives | >> | >> DNU #goOn:viewedWith: | >> | >> After all of: | >> | >> Gofer new | >> squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; | >> package: 'ConfigurationOfMetacello'; load. | >> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfMetacello) perform: | >> #loadLatestVersion. | >> | >> ConfigurationOfMetacello project latestVersion load: | #('Tutorial'). | >> | >> | >> Gofer new | >> squeaksource: 'glamoroust'; | >> package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamoroust'; | >> load. | >> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGlamoroust) perform: #loadDefault. | >> | >> ________________________________________ | >> From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >> ] On Behalf Of laurent laffont [laurent.laffont@gmail.com] | >> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 4:06 AM | >> To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello - the missing information?? | >> | >> 2010/2/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K | >> <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu | >>>> | >> The closest thing I see in the tutorial (assuming it is working as | >> intended) is a mention of baseline configurations. If that is in | | >> fact | >> how things can work, there should be an abstract super class for | all | >> configurations (or at least a trait they all use to avoid | duplicate | >> code) and a method that loads the baseline. | >> | >> ProfStef would be a lot more useful if it made use of Polymorph: a | >> table of contents in a left pane, select an item and the righ pane | >> shows the content, actions replaced with buttons rather than | >> forcing a lot of right-clicking. To the extent that those things | >> are difficult, we need easy-to-use tree models. From what I have | >> been able to figure out of the tutorial, a wiki page would be more | >> helpful and more likely to be read. If you "force" loading of | >> code, then there should be | | >> some | >> benefit in the form of interaction. | >> | >> Danny Chan has written ProfStefBrowser (in the same repository as | >> ProfStef) which has both browsing and interactive (ProfStef next) | >> capabilities. | >> Tudor Girba has also written a proof-of-concept using Glamour: | >> Gofer new | >> squeaksource: 'glamoroust'; | >> package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamoroust'; | >> load. | >> (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGlamoroust) perform: #loadDefault. | >> | >> And then: | >> GTProfStef open | >> | >> (You spawn the new lesson by command+o) | >> | >> Cheers | >> | >> Laurent Laffont | >> | >> | >> My question stands. | >> | >> Bill | >> | >> | >> ________________________________ | >> From: | >> pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project- | >> bounc | >> es@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>> | >>> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo- | | >>> proj | >>> ect-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>> ] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck | >> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:52 PM | >> To: | >> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo- | >> project@lists.gforge. | >> inria.fr | >>> | >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello - the missing information?? | >> | >> | >> | >> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K | >> <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu <mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: | >> For any given cofiguration, how does one know which version to | load? | >> There are incantations in the beginner workspace, but what happens | | >> for | >> things not listed there? | >> | >> | >> You must know about Metacello. As you can noticed, that's why I | >> added the link to the tutorial. | >> | >> Bill | >> | >> _______________________________________________ | >> Pharo-project mailing list | >> | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge. | inria.fr | >>> | >> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >> | >> | >> _______________________________________________ | >> Pharo-project mailing list | >> | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge. | inria.fr | >>> | >> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >> | >> | >> _______________________________________________ | >> Pharo-project mailing list | >> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | > | > -- | > www.tudorgirba.com | > | > "When people care, great things can happen." | > | > | > | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Pharo-project mailing list | > Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Pharo-project mailing list | > Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | | -- | www.tudorgirba.com | | "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them." | | | | | _______________________________________________ | Pharo-project mailing list | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | | _______________________________________________ | Pharo-project mailing list | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On 07.02.2010 21:57, Dale Henrichs wrote:
Bill,
This has been discussed before and there is development underway for Loader which is aimed at providing a scripting API for Metacello. You are hitting the nail on the head, but the nail isn't quite ready to be hit:)
Dale
Speaking of missing information, personally I'd really like to see some class comments :) (Think I found a single one last time I loaded Metacello) Cheers, Henry
participants (3)
-
Dale Henrichs -
Henrik Sperre Johansen -
Schwab,Wilhelm K