Ok but for pharo1.0 it would be nice to have it :) then after we plug metacello underneath Doru with metacello will we be able to say I want to load in the past the version of moose which worked with pharo1.0 even if now I'm working on pharo 3.2 (the real future :)) Stef On Sep 16, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Damien Cassou wrote:

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Tudor Girba <girba@iam.unibe.ch> wrote:

...

I believe Metacello is a very nice piece of work and it should be a very strong contender for managing releases. The ui tools are not quite there yet, but it works very nicely for allowing someone to specify the exact configuration to be loaded.

I agree. Universes is cool but:

- it requires a dedicated server and only few people installed one already - it only allows one administrator per package description - the interface is well... not very nice :-) - we would need to create a new universe from scratch

-- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

"Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

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Stef, Under Metacello, when you a release a version, the complete list of Monticello files are recorded with the version (including load order dependencies). So Metacello is designed to make it possible to load old versions of projects into new images. It is also possible to record the versions of all of the projects that you are using, so you can record the exact version of Seaside, Magritte and Pier you are using at a particular point in time, and then you load that exact configuration into a different image at any time in the future. Dale ----- "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote: | Ok but for pharo1.0 it would be nice to have it :) | then after we plug metacello underneath | | Doru with metacello will we be able to say | I want to load in the past the version of moose which worked with | pharo1.0 | even if now I'm working on pharo 3.2 (the real future :)) | | Stef | On Sep 16, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Damien Cassou wrote: | | > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Tudor Girba <girba@iam.unibe.ch> | | > wrote: | >> I believe Metacello is a very nice piece of work and it should be | a | >> very strong contender for managing releases. The ui tools are not | >> quite there yet, but it works very nicely for allowing someone to | >> specify the exact configuration to be loaded. | > | > I agree. Universes is cool but: | > | > - it requires a dedicated server and only few people installed one | | > already | > - it only allows one administrator per package description | > - the interface is well... not very nice :-) | > - we would need to create a new universe from scratch | > | > -- | > Damien Cassou | > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st | > | > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them | > popular by not having them." James Iry | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Pharo-project mailing list | > Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | | | _______________________________________________ | Pharo-project mailing list | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

When defining project references in Metacello, you can use a #>= operator which basically says that later versions are okay - this makes it possible for MyApp to specify AppA v1 but be able to use AppA v3 if it is already loaded... The problem of conflicting requirements isn't solved but Metacello doesn't _force_ one to use a particular version unless you want it to (using #= as the operator forces that version to be loaded)... Dale ----- "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote: | I remembered that. Now I was wondering about the following | | if we can tag a config we get in essence an Universe: a set of | packages wrking with a given tag. | But this is not quite the same. | | One of the problem that universes solved is that if | | MyApp requires | AppA v1 | | YourApp requires | AppA v3 | | I can load MyApp and YourApp separately but together thy may conflict | | or do not work | | Now universe forces me and you to choose when we publish because there | | was only one AppA | the AppA for the current Universe. | | Stef | | On Sep 16, 2009, at 6:42 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote: | | > Stef, | > | > Under Metacello, when you a release a version, the complete list of | | > Monticello files are recorded with the version (including load order | | > dependencies). | > | > So Metacello is designed to make it possible to load old versions of | | > projects into new images. | > | > It is also possible to record the versions of all of the projects | > that you are using, so you can record the exact version of Seaside, | | > Magritte and Pier you are using at a particular point in time, and | | > then you load that exact configuration into a different image at any | | > time in the future. | > | > Dale | > ----- "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote: | > | > | Ok but for pharo1.0 it would be nice to have it :) | > | then after we plug metacello underneath | > | | > | Doru with metacello will we be able to say | > | I want to load in the past the version of moose which worked | with | > | pharo1.0 | > | even if now I'm working on pharo 3.2 (the real future :)) | > | | > | Stef | > | On Sep 16, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Damien Cassou wrote: | > | | > | > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Tudor Girba | <girba@iam.unibe.ch> | > | | > | > wrote: | > | >> I believe Metacello is a very nice piece of work and it should | be | > | a | > | >> very strong contender for managing releases. The ui tools are | not | > | >> quite there yet, but it works very nicely for allowing someone | to | > | >> specify the exact configuration to be loaded. | > | > | > | > I agree. Universes is cool but: | > | > | > | > - it requires a dedicated server and only few people installed | one | > | | > | > already | > | > - it only allows one administrator per package description | > | > - the interface is well... not very nice :-) | > | > - we would need to create a new universe from scratch | > | > | > | > -- | > | > Damien Cassou | > | > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st | > | > | > | > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes | them | > | > popular by not having them." James Iry | > | > | > | > _______________________________________________ | > | > Pharo-project mailing list | > | > Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > | > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- | > project | > | | > | | > | _______________________________________________ | > | Pharo-project mailing list | > | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > | | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Pharo-project mailing list | > Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Mike Yes this is a good idea. read the blog of dale. We are starting to manage all our project Moose, Mondrian, Glamour with metacello I'm waiting that doru and dale release a version with fixed api to write a chapter for Pharo by example2 Stef On Sep 16, 2009, at 1:59 PM, Michael Robers wrote:

I am interested in learning how we could use metacello. Not for 1.0. Before we commit to it for 1.1 I think we would need to conduct an experiment in parallel to get a feel for it. We should also review the other proposals. Then commit to one proposal for 1.1 1.2 etc and make the process work. Or we could stall 1.1 until we have a process in place but I think we will still have fixes coming in we will not want a lag. What do you think?

Cheers Mike

On 16 Sep 2009, at 10:24, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:

...

Hi

I value the idea that when we look for a software (for example SIXX) we can find a version that is working. In the past we used Universes and if was successful. We cannot not have squeakmap and universe at the same time. I discussed with damien briefly about that and he told me that we coud have a metacello alternative. Now I wonder if for pharo 1.0 it makes sense. May be having a nice Universe for pharo would be good and important.

Dale what do you think? Do you see metacello working in the story (may be for 1.1)? Stef

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