Re: [Pharo-project] direct object manipulation
Gaucho is under active development, so sadly i cant release it yet. The good news is that i'm using Athens[1], with a Cairo backend. so the visual appearance is greatly improved from the previous version, amongst other goodies such as a zoomable user interface. I'm almost ready for a release... Up to my knowledge, there's no other work related to Self and Morphic Wrappers for Pharo. Fernando [1]http://computeradventures.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/athens-a-first-babysteps/ On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Francisco Garau <francisco.garau@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi - what packages can be used in latest Pharo to manipulate objects directly?
I am thinking something like MorphicWrappers, NakedObjects or Gaucho.
Cheers, Francisco
This is really cool. We have planned to make Roassal (code name for Mondrian2) work with Cairo. Cheers, Alexandre Le 22 mars 2012 à 08:55, Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero@usi.ch> a écrit :
Gaucho is under active development, so sadly i cant release it yet.
The good news is that i'm using Athens[1], with a Cairo backend. so the visual appearance is greatly improved from the previous version, amongst other goodies such as a zoomable user interface.
I'm almost ready for a release...
Up to my knowledge, there's no other work related to Self and Morphic Wrappers for Pharo.
Fernando
[1]http://computeradventures.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/athens-a-first-babysteps/
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Francisco Garau <francisco.garau@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi - what packages can be used in latest Pharo to manipulate objects directly?
I am thinking something like MorphicWrappers, NakedObjects or Gaucho.
Cheers, Francisco
On 23 March 2012 18:42, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
This is really cool. We have planned to make Roassal (code name for Mondrian2) work with Cairo.
yes.. we adding last bells and whistles to Athens, with Fernando. There's some parts missing, but you already can try it out. Gofer it 'SqS/Athens' load: 'ConfigurationOfAthens' ConfigurationOfAthens project version: '0.1.3' load To run with cairo, you will need NB-enabled VM which is here: https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/NativeBoost/job/NB-Cog-Mac-Cocoa/
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 22 mars 2012 à 08:55, Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero@usi.ch> a écrit :
Gaucho is under active development, so sadly i cant release it yet.
The good news is that i'm using Athens[1], with a Cairo backend. so the visual appearance is greatly improved from the previous version, amongst other goodies such as a zoomable user interface.
I'm almost ready for a release...
Up to my knowledge, there's no other work related to Self and Morphic Wrappers for Pharo.
Fernando
[1]http://computeradventures.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/athens-a-first-babysteps/
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Francisco Garau <francisco.garau@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi - what packages can be used in latest Pharo to manipulate objects directly?
I am thinking something like MorphicWrappers, NakedObjects or Gaucho.
Cheers, Francisco
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Hi Igor, I tried the version 0.1.3 on OSX, using the VM you suggested, in a 1.4 image (the one used by Moose). AthensCairoSurfaceExamples example1. complains that the function is not available. The error has been raised by NBFFICallout. Is there something obvious I am missing? Cheers, Alexandre On 22 Mar 2012, at 14:01, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 23 March 2012 18:42, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
This is really cool. We have planned to make Roassal (code name for Mondrian2) work with Cairo.
yes.. we adding last bells and whistles to Athens, with Fernando. There's some parts missing, but you already can try it out.
Gofer it 'SqS/Athens' load: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'
ConfigurationOfAthens project version: '0.1.3' load
To run with cairo, you will need NB-enabled VM which is here: https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/NativeBoost/job/NB-Cog-Mac-Cocoa/
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 22 mars 2012 à 08:55, Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero@usi.ch> a écrit :
Gaucho is under active development, so sadly i cant release it yet.
The good news is that i'm using Athens[1], with a Cairo backend. so the visual appearance is greatly improved from the previous version, amongst other goodies such as a zoomable user interface.
I'm almost ready for a release...
Up to my knowledge, there's no other work related to Self and Morphic Wrappers for Pharo.
Fernando
[1]http://computeradventures.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/athens-a-first-babysteps/
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Francisco Garau <francisco.garau@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi - what packages can be used in latest Pharo to manipulate objects directly?
I am thinking something like MorphicWrappers, NakedObjects or Gaucho.
Cheers, Francisco
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On 29 March 2012 14:53, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
Hi Igor,
I tried the version 0.1.3 on OSX, using the VM you suggested, in a 1.4 image (the one used by Moose).
AthensCairoSurfaceExamples example1. complains that the function is not available. The error has been raised by NBFFICallout. Is there something obvious I am missing?
did you installed cairo library (32bit)? it is separate step. sudo port install cairo +universal
Cheers, Alexandre
On 22 Mar 2012, at 14:01, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 23 March 2012 18:42, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
This is really cool. We have planned to make Roassal (code name for Mondrian2) work with Cairo.
yes.. we adding last bells and whistles to Athens, with Fernando. There's some parts missing, but you already can try it out.
Gofer it 'SqS/Athens' load: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'
ConfigurationOfAthens project version: '0.1.3' load
To run with cairo, you will need NB-enabled VM which is here: https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/NativeBoost/job/NB-Cog-Mac-Cocoa/
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 22 mars 2012 à 08:55, Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero@usi.ch> a écrit :
Gaucho is under active development, so sadly i cant release it yet.
The good news is that i'm using Athens[1], with a Cairo backend. so the visual appearance is greatly improved from the previous version, amongst other goodies such as a zoomable user interface.
I'm almost ready for a release...
Up to my knowledge, there's no other work related to Self and Morphic Wrappers for Pharo.
Fernando
[1]http://computeradventures.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/athens-a-first-babysteps/
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Francisco Garau <francisco.garau@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi - what packages can be used in latest Pharo to manipulate objects directly?
I am thinking something like MorphicWrappers, NakedObjects or Gaucho.
Cheers, Francisco
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
AthensCairoSurfaceExamples example1. complains that the function is not available. The error has been raised by NBFFICallout. Is there something obvious I am missing?
did you installed cairo library (32bit)? it is separate step.
sudo port install cairo +universal
I didn't, but wait. What does this intall? Why not to simply package the libraries with the VM? I tried once to use port/fink and I broke the internal of OSX, after having downloaded 500 Mb. Alexandre
On 22 Mar 2012, at 14:01, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 23 March 2012 18:42, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
This is really cool. We have planned to make Roassal (code name for Mondrian2) work with Cairo.
yes.. we adding last bells and whistles to Athens, with Fernando. There's some parts missing, but you already can try it out.
Gofer it 'SqS/Athens' load: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'
ConfigurationOfAthens project version: '0.1.3' load
To run with cairo, you will need NB-enabled VM which is here: https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/NativeBoost/job/NB-Cog-Mac-Cocoa/
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 22 mars 2012 à 08:55, Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero@usi.ch> a écrit :
Gaucho is under active development, so sadly i cant release it yet.
The good news is that i'm using Athens[1], with a Cairo backend. so the visual appearance is greatly improved from the previous version, amongst other goodies such as a zoomable user interface.
I'm almost ready for a release...
Up to my knowledge, there's no other work related to Self and Morphic Wrappers for Pharo.
Fernando
[1]http://computeradventures.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/athens-a-first-babysteps/
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Francisco Garau <francisco.garau@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi - what packages can be used in latest Pharo to manipulate objects directly?
I am thinking something like MorphicWrappers, NakedObjects or Gaucho.
Cheers, Francisco
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Just remove /opt/local from your default $PATH (Macports location) and add them when you open a terminal for sudo port install X Then you can't have port mess with OSX internals. That's the whole point of Macports: they have their own libraries to avoid such interference. Fink's another matter but I've moved to Macports. (Fink is in /sw so you can do the same to an extent). Phil 2012/3/29 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>
AthensCairoSurfaceExamples example1. complains that the function is not available. The error has been raised by NBFFICallout. Is there something obvious I am missing?
did you installed cairo library (32bit)? it is separate step.
sudo port install cairo +universal
I didn't, but wait. What does this intall? Why not to simply package the libraries with the VM? I tried once to use port/fink and I broke the internal of OSX, after having downloaded 500 Mb.
Alexandre
On 22 Mar 2012, at 14:01, Igor Stasenko wrote:
On 23 March 2012 18:42, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com>
wrote:
This is really cool. We have planned to make Roassal (code name for Mondrian2) work with Cairo.
yes.. we adding last bells and whistles to Athens, with Fernando. There's some parts missing, but you already can try it out.
Gofer it 'SqS/Athens' load: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'
ConfigurationOfAthens project version: '0.1.3' load
To run with cairo, you will need NB-enabled VM which is here: https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/NativeBoost/job/NB-Cog-Mac-Cocoa/
Cheers, Alexandre
Le 22 mars 2012 à 08:55, Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero@usi.ch> a écrit :
Gaucho is under active development, so sadly i cant release it yet.
The good news is that i'm using Athens[1], with a Cairo backend. so the visual appearance is greatly improved from the previous version, amongst other goodies such as a zoomable user interface.
I'm almost ready for a release...
Up to my knowledge, there's no other work related to Self and Morphic Wrappers for Pharo.
Fernando
[1] http://computeradventures.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/athens-a-first-babysteps/
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Francisco Garau <francisco.garau@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi - what packages can be used in latest Pharo to manipulate objects directly?
I am thinking something like MorphicWrappers, NakedObjects or Gaucho.
Cheers, Francisco
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Philippe Back "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil@highoctane.be| Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges
On 29 March 2012 20:02, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
AthensCairoSurfaceExamples example1. complains that the function is not available. The error has been raised by NBFFICallout. Is there something obvious I am missing?
did you installed cairo library (32bit)? it is separate step.
sudo port install cairo +universal
I didn't, but wait. What does this intall? Why not to simply package the libraries with the VM?
because it is a third-party library. To me, your proposal sounds similar to "why not simply package Operating System libraries with the VM". Because in this case you need cairo. But in case of OpenGL, you will need opengl libs.. so "package everything" goes nowhere.
I tried once to use port/fink and I broke the internal of OSX, after having downloaded 500 Mb.
i know that using external libs sometimes is painful. But this is like that. And we're not alone with these problems. I think there's many other software which have to deal with it. Another solution is to implement everything by own :)
Alexandre
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
I didn't, but wait. What does this intall? Why not to simply package the libraries with the VM?
because it is a third-party library. To me, your proposal sounds similar to "why not simply package Operating System libraries with the VM". Because in this case you need cairo. But in case of OpenGL, you will need opengl libs.. so "package everything" goes nowhere.
I tried once to use port/fink and I broke the internal of OSX, after having downloaded 500 Mb.
i know that using external libs sometimes is painful. But this is like that. And we're not alone with these problems. I think there's many other software which have to deal with it.
Another solution is to implement everything by own :)
Well... The Cairo libraries are shipped with VisualWorks. When I install VW, I've just say that I want Cairo, and everything works well. I have played a bit with Cairo on VW and I am quite happy so far. I would not have played with it if I had to install the lib externally with port/fink. I personally would not mind to have the virtual machine twice as big if cairo is shipped with it. I think it depends on what do you want to do in the mid-long term: throwing away the squeak bitmap rendering and using Cairo for real? What should be the external library, the squeak bitmap rendering or Cairo? Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
On 30 March 2012 16:30, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
I didn't, but wait. What does this intall? Why not to simply package the libraries with the VM?
because it is a third-party library. To me, your proposal sounds similar to "why not simply package Operating System libraries with the VM". Because in this case you need cairo. But in case of OpenGL, you will need opengl libs.. so "package everything" goes nowhere.
I tried once to use port/fink and I broke the internal of OSX, after having downloaded 500 Mb.
i know that using external libs sometimes is painful. But this is like that. And we're not alone with these problems. I think there's many other software which have to deal with it.
Another solution is to implement everything by own :)
Well... The Cairo libraries are shipped with VisualWorks. When I install VW, I've just say that I want Cairo, and everything works well. I have played a bit with Cairo on VW and I am quite happy so far. I would not have played with it if I had to install the lib externally with port/fink. I personally would not mind to have the virtual machine twice as big if cairo is shipped with it.
I know i know.. It is what 1-click images for.. where everything stuffed together. Now, did i mentioned already that i don't like it? It is good for starters.. but bad for one big thing: you vaccinating people from keeping an eye on updates because they think they should use only 1-click package and nothing else exists. And then when they reporting problems, usual answer is "it is already fixed in recent version", but they don't know how to download update, because all they know is 1-click. Let's not turn developers into a housewives. You are developer, you should know how software works, and you should know how to download, install , upgrade and run it. And if you don't, then learn, otherwise it is your fault or you just picked wrong profession for your career. :)
I think it depends on what do you want to do in the mid-long term: throwing away the squeak bitmap rendering and using Cairo for real? What should be the external library, the squeak bitmap rendering or Cairo?
I don't understand your question. Cairo is one of the backends for Athens. And it quite possible happen, won't be the best one. If you don't want to install cairo library, you can try Athens without cairo installed. Then you should use AthensBalloonSurface instead of AthensCairoSurface.
Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
This is a chicken and egg problem. And a popularity contest game as well. Without one click, you'll piss people off fast and they'll go look elsewhere. Then you loose traction and that's bad. If I didn't had one click, I wouldn't have been learning as fast as I've been. Now I do have all pieces from different locations (even wanting to build the VM on my own). For contrast, look at another community I am part of: Tiki Wiki CMS Groupware. The system is topping SourceForge number of downloads, committers, and is a general success for intranets in companies. Of course, the paradigm isn't pure at all, but easy enough to have a lot of people contributing good stuff. We are at version 9 and I don't know any other package that is as feature rich when it comes to the web. We are talking more than a million lines of code here. Now, we are moving further than one click: hosting providers provide a full VM with everything installed for the stack. As of software developers, I do view 4 categories: - constructivists using established abstractions and not requiring further exposure to inner workings of the system. They deliver business value for common problems. - bridges understanding how the system works inside and are able to convey usage patterns to the constructivists. They also feed back real world usage problems to the next kind so that the system stays useful and not pie in the skyish. - abstractionists: able to come up with a powerful set of abstractions to solve a given problem in a general manner. Framework makers are here - technology makers: create core tech. Like a Cog-VM thing, CUDA, .. Try to pair types by jumping one strata and you are asking for trouble. Except for rare seasoned developers that are master of their craft and are able to display behavioral flexibility. But these are a rare breed and you won't get them for a long time anyway as these are seekers. </endofrant> 2012/3/30 Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com>
On 30 March 2012 16:30, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
I didn't, but wait. What does this intall? Why not to simply package the libraries with the VM?
because it is a third-party library. To me, your proposal sounds similar to "why not simply package Operating System libraries with the VM". Because in this case you need cairo. But in case of OpenGL, you will need opengl libs.. so "package everything" goes nowhere.
I tried once to use port/fink and I broke the internal of OSX, after having downloaded 500 Mb.
i know that using external libs sometimes is painful. But this is like that. And we're not alone with these problems. I think there's many other software which have to deal with it.
Another solution is to implement everything by own :)
Well... The Cairo libraries are shipped with VisualWorks. When I install VW, I've just say that I want Cairo, and everything works well. I have played a bit with Cairo on VW and I am quite happy so far. I would not have played with it if I had to install the lib externally with port/fink. I personally would not mind to have the virtual machine twice as big if cairo is shipped with it.
I know i know.. It is what 1-click images for.. where everything stuffed together. Now, did i mentioned already that i don't like it? It is good for starters.. but bad for one big thing: you vaccinating people from keeping an eye on updates because they think they should use only 1-click package and nothing else exists.
And then when they reporting problems, usual answer is "it is already fixed in recent version", but they don't know how to download update, because all they know is 1-click.
Let's not turn developers into a housewives. You are developer, you should know how software works, and you should know how to download, install , upgrade and run it. And if you don't, then learn, otherwise it is your fault or you just picked wrong profession for your career. :)
I think it depends on what do you want to do in the mid-long term: throwing away the squeak bitmap rendering and using Cairo for real? What should be the external library, the squeak bitmap rendering or Cairo?
I don't understand your question. Cairo is one of the backends for Athens. And it quite possible happen, won't be the best one. If you don't want to install cairo library, you can try Athens without cairo installed. Then you should use AthensBalloonSurface instead of AthensCairoSurface.
Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- Philippe Back "Helping you hit the top 3 outcomes you really want to achieve" Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail: phil@highoctane.be| Web: http://philippeback.eu | Blog: http://philippeback.be High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 1301 Bierges
On Mar 30, 2012, at 9:50 PM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
This is a chicken and egg problem. And a popularity contest game as well.
Without one click, you'll piss people off fast and they'll go look elsewhere. Then you loose traction and that's bad.
If I didn't had one click, I wouldn't have been learning as fast as I've been.
I agree with you.
Now I do have all pieces from different locations (even wanting to build the VM on my own).
For contrast, look at another community I am part of: Tiki Wiki CMS Groupware. The system is topping SourceForge number of downloads, committers, and is a general success for intranets in companies.
Of course, the paradigm isn't pure at all, but easy enough to have a lot of people contributing good stuff.
We are at version 9 and I don't know any other package that is as feature rich when it comes to the web. We are talking more than a million lines of code here. Now, we are moving further than one click: hosting providers provide a full VM with everything installed for the stack.
As of software developers, I do view 4 categories:
- constructivists using established abstractions and not requiring further exposure to inner workings of the system. They deliver business value for common problems. - bridges understanding how the system works inside and are able to convey usage patterns to the constructivists. They also feed back real world usage problems to the next kind so that the system stays useful and not pie in the skyish. - abstractionists: able to come up with a powerful set of abstractions to solve a given problem in a general manner. Framework makers are here - technology makers: create core tech. Like a Cog-VM thing, CUDA, ..
Try to pair types by jumping one strata and you are asking for trouble.
Except for rare seasoned developers that are master of their craft and are able to display behavioral flexibility. But these are a rare breed and you won't get them for a long time anyway as these are seekers.
I want a good installer for each platform :) And I want to let a chance to people to decide when they have to deal with low level. Pushing shit on their faces as a welcome message is not what we want. Now alex shipping cairo lib may be not be the best to do. It tooks some time to compile on my machine and it means some work to build the right libr for each sub platforms: 32, 64â¦.. Now you can also use VW. :) For me this is simply no way. ;) Stef
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr
wrote:
On Mar 30, 2012, at 9:50 PM, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
This is a chicken and egg problem. And a popularity contest game as well.
Without one click, you'll piss people off fast and they'll go look elsewhere. Then you loose traction and that's bad.
If I didn't had one click, I wouldn't have been learning as fast as I've been.
I agree with you.
Now I do have all pieces from different locations (even wanting to build the VM on my own).
For contrast, look at another community I am part of: Tiki Wiki CMS Groupware. The system is topping SourceForge number of downloads, committers, and is a general success for intranets in companies.
Of course, the paradigm isn't pure at all, but easy enough to have a lot of people contributing good stuff.
We are at version 9 and I don't know any other package that is as feature rich when it comes to the web. We are talking more than a million lines of code here. Now, we are moving further than one click: hosting providers provide a full VM with everything installed for the stack.
As of software developers, I do view 4 categories:
- constructivists using established abstractions and not requiring further exposure to inner workings of the system. They deliver business value for common problems. - bridges understanding how the system works inside and are able to convey usage patterns to the constructivists. They also feed back real world usage problems to the next kind so that the system stays useful and not pie in the skyish. - abstractionists: able to come up with a powerful set of abstractions to solve a given problem in a general manner. Framework makers are here - technology makers: create core tech. Like a Cog-VM thing, CUDA, ..
Try to pair types by jumping one strata and you are asking for trouble.
Except for rare seasoned developers that are master of their craft and are able to display behavioral flexibility. But these are a rare breed and you won't get them for a long time anyway as these are seekers.
I want a good installer for each platform :)
For newspeak there is a native installer for Mac OS and Windows. See http://www.squeakvm.org/svn/squeak/branches/Cog/nscogbuild/cygwinbuild/insta... http://www.squeakvm.org/svn/squeak/branches/Cog/nscogbuild/macbuild/installe.... These allow one to install whatever one specifies using a native installer. The WIndows code is a little hairy and the Mac OS code is very simple. So if you consider a native installer a good introductory choice (it doesn't have to be the only one) then take a look. I can help with anyone trying to tailor to the WIndows installer.
And I want to let a chance to people to decide when they have to deal with low level. Pushing shit on their faces as a welcome message is not what we want.
Now alex shipping cairo lib may be not be the best to do. It tooks some time to compile on my machine and it means some work to build the right libr for each sub platforms: 32, 64â¦..
Now you can also use VW. :) For me this is simply no way. ;)
Stef
-- best, Eliot
On 30 March 2012 21:43, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com> wrote:
For newspeak there is a native installer for Mac OS and Windows. See http://www.squeakvm.org/svn/squeak/branches/Cog/nscogbuild/cygwinbuild/insta... http://www.squeakvm.org/svn/squeak/branches/Cog/nscogbuild/macbuild/installe.... These allow one to install whatever one specifies using a native installer. The WIndows code is a little hairy and the Mac OS code is very simple. So if you consider a native installer a good introductory choice (it doesn't have to be the only one) then take a look. I can help with anyone trying to tailor to the WIndows installer.
How about building an Installer or Image-Launcher in Pharo itself? -- the problem is deployment, right? I am speaking with Santiago about doing Type Inference over a small application like that for the GSoC. If he succeeds we will have the call graph, and then we can do application extraction. Vote Type Inference! Vote Santiago!
And I want to let a chance to people to decide when they have to deal with low level. Pushing shit on their faces as a welcome message is not what we want.
Now alex shipping cairo lib may be not be the best to do. It tooks some time to compile on my machine and it means some work to build the right libr for each sub platforms: 32, 64â¦..
Now you can also use VW. :) For me this is simply no way. ;)
Stef
-- best, Eliot
Let's not turn developers into a housewives. You are developer, you should know how software works, and you should know how to download, install , upgrade and run it. And if you don't, then learn, otherwise it is your fault or you just picked wrong profession for your career. :)
Igor this is not really true because a good installer would be good. And do not underestimate newcomers experience. I want it to be excellent. Now alex squeak shipped old libraries that were banned on certain linux distribution so binding everything is not the panacea.
I think it depends on what do you want to do in the mid-long term: throwing away the squeak bitmap rendering and using Cairo for real? What should be the external library, the squeak bitmap rendering or Cairo?
I don't understand your question. Cairo is one of the backends for Athens. And it quite possible happen, won't be the best one. If you don't want to install cairo library, you can try Athens without cairo installed. Then you should use AthensBalloonSurface instead of AthensCairoSurface.
Alexandre
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
participants (7)
-
Alexandre Bergel -
Eliot Miranda -
Fernando Olivero -
Francisco Garau -
Igor Stasenko -
phil＠highoctane.be -
Stéphane Ducasse