This is a chicken and egg problem.And a popularity contest game as well.
Without one click, you'll piss people off fast and they'll go look elsewhere. Then you loose traction and that's bad.
If I didn't had one click, I wouldn't have been learning as fast as I've been.
Now I do have all pieces from different locations (even wanting to build the VM on my own).
For contrast, look at another community I am part of: Tiki Wiki CMS Groupware. The system is topping SourceForge number of downloads, committers, and is a general success for intranets in companies.
Of course, the paradigm isn't pure at all, but easy enough to have a lot of people contributing good stuff.
We are at version 9 and I don't know any other package that is as feature rich when it comes to the web.
We are talking more than a million lines of code here.
Now, we are moving further than one click: hosting providers provide a full VM with everything installed for the stack.
As of software developers, I do view 4 categories:�
- constructivists using established abstractions and not requiring further exposure to inner workings of the system. They deliver business value for common problems.
- bridges understanding how the system works inside and are able to convey usage patterns to the constructivists. They also feed back real world usage problems to the next kind so that the system stays useful and not pie in the skyish.
- abstractionists: able to come up with a powerful set of abstractions to solve a given problem in a general manner. Framework makers are here
- technology makers: create core tech. Like a Cog-VM thing, CUDA, ..
Try to pair types by jumping one strata and you are asking for trouble.
Except for rare seasoned developers that are master of their craft and are able to display behavioral flexibility.
But these are a rare breed and you won't get them for a long time anyway as these are seekers.
</endofrant>
2012/3/30 Igor Stasenko
<siguctua@gmail.com>
On 30 March 2012 16:30, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel@me.com> wrote:
>>> I didn't, but wait. What does this intall? Why not to simply package the libraries with the VM?
>>
>> because it is a third-party library.
>> To me, your proposal sounds similar to "why not simply package
>> Operating System libraries with the VM".
>> Because in this case you need cairo. But in case of OpenGL, you will
>> need opengl libs.. so "package everything" goes nowhere.
>>
>>> I tried once to use port/fink and I broke the internal of OSX, after having downloaded 500 Mb.
>>>
>> i know that using external libs sometimes is painful. But this is like
>> that. And we're not alone with these problems.
>> I think there's many other software which have to deal with it.
>>
>> Another solution is to implement everything by own :)
>
>
> Well... The Cairo libraries are shipped with VisualWorks. When I install VW, I've just say that I want Cairo, and everything works well. I have played a bit with Cairo on VW and I am quite happy so far.
> I would not have played with it if I had to install the lib externally with port/fink.
> I personally would not mind to have the virtual machine twice as big if cairo is shipped with it.
>
I know i know.. It is what 1-click images for.. where everything
stuffed together.
Now, did i mentioned already that i don't like it?
It is good for starters.. but bad for one big thing: you vaccinating
people from keeping an eye on updates
because they think they should use only 1-click package and nothing else exists.
And then when they reporting problems, usual answer is "it is already
fixed in recent version",
but they don't know how to download update, because all they know is 1-click.
Let's not turn developers into a housewives. You are developer, you
should know how software works,
and you should know how to download, install , upgrade and run it.
And if you don't, then learn, otherwise it is your fault or you just
picked wrong profession for your career. :)
> I think it depends on what do you want to do in the mid-long term: throwing away the squeak bitmap rendering and using Cairo for real? What should be the external library, the squeak bitmap rendering or Cairo?
>
I don't understand your question.
Cairo is one of the backends for Athens. And it quite possible happen,
won't be the best one.
If you don't want to install cairo library, you can try Athens without
cairo installed.
Then you should use AthensBalloonSurface instead of AthensCairoSurface.
> Alexandre
>
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel �http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.
--
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