Re: [Pharo-project] about Pharo
Thanks for your reply :)
what you report is strange. Can you let us know:
- vm
The Pharo VM is the current (as of a couple of days ago) download from the Pharo Homepage - Squeak 3.11.4 (beta).
- OS
Win2K SP4
- image version
Once again, a very recent download - pharo1.0-10493-rc1dev09.11.2.image
- your display depth
True Color 24 bit
I have Display depth -> 32 then 24 looks strange to me. depth: bitsPerPixel (bitsPerPixel > 32 or: [(bitsPerPixel bitAnd: bitsPerPixel-1) ~= 0]) ifTrue: [self halt: 'bitsPerPixel must be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32']. depth := bitsPerPixel Can you type Display depth and Display depth: 32 to see if this change something?
Because people are using pharo on production and we got an increase of 15% of Morphic in pharo 1.1 so I have some doubts.
It is very definitely much slower than Squeak on my system. This is an old laptop 900MHz P3, but it has no problems at all running Squeak.
We should keep an old machine around to test it. this is strange. Because the Ob2Browser is slow because it displays package and getting package information is slow. Which browser are you using Can you give a try to change it and use the system browser (to change click on the right icon on the window ... Choose new default menu) Can you change the theme? using the preference pane? Thanks Stef
Neil Butterworth
Stef, I have a "slow" machine that stands ready to help with numbers any time; it is semi-retired now, running Ubuntu 9.04. It might be a good ideas to dual-boot it, but I find it challenging to work up the motivation to assault it with a Windows CD, and I have a similar era machine running win2k. My sense is that Pharo is slower than Squeak, and I am suspicious that the Linux vm is not as efficient as it could be. I forget wheher I saw this only on Linux, but somewhere I reported a long-sourced method that I saw draw in monochrome and AGAIN in color. Nothing against Shout (as the self-apppointed comment pedant, I **really** appreciate syntax highlighting), there might be some room for efficiency by skipping the monochrom pass. Resizing on Linux turns the main window black. It might make more sense to invalidate and draw once after the sizing is complete?? I have long heard people claim that Linux is faster than Windows, but I was not convinced. Having recently purchased a new machine and watched it labor under the weight of Vista long enough to see for myself what all the stench was about, I think I get it. Current Linux distributions with the customary graphical largese are not happy on 7+ year old machines that handily run Win2k. However, a new box that just barely gets by under Windows will be relatively quick running Linux. I forget who said it: "software is getting slow faster than hardware is getting fast." Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:02 PM To: neil butterworth Cc: Pharo Development Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] about Pharo Thanks for your reply :)
what you report is strange. Can you let us know:
- vm
The Pharo VM is the current (as of a couple of days ago) download from the Pharo Homepage - Squeak 3.11.4 (beta).
- OS
Win2K SP4
- image version
Once again, a very recent download - pharo1.0-10493-rc1dev09.11.2.image
- your display depth
True Color 24 bit
I have Display depth -> 32 then 24 looks strange to me. depth: bitsPerPixel (bitsPerPixel > 32 or: [(bitsPerPixel bitAnd: bitsPerPixel-1) ~= 0]) ifTrue: [self halt: 'bitsPerPixel must be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32']. depth := bitsPerPixel Can you type Display depth and Display depth: 32 to see if this change something?
Because people are using pharo on production and we got an increase of 15% of Morphic in pharo 1.1 so I have some doubts.
It is very definitely much slower than Squeak on my system. This is an old laptop 900MHz P3, but it has no problems at all running Squeak.
We should keep an old machine around to test it. this is strange. Because the Ob2Browser is slow because it displays package and getting package information is slow. Which browser are you using Can you give a try to change it and use the system browser (to change click on the right icon on the window ... Choose new default menu) Can you change the theme? using the preference pane? Thanks Stef
Neil Butterworth
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
In my experience the truetype fonts and the mac skin are a major slowdown. If I disable both things I get a much faster image. Now I do like nice fonts, so I just live with that speed penalty ... Lukas On Thursday, November 26, 2009, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:
Stef,
I have a "slow" machine that stands ready to help with numbers any time; it is semi-retired now, running Ubuntu 9.04. Â It might be a good ideas to dual-boot it, but I find it challenging to work up the motivation to assault it with a Windows CD, and I have a similar era machine running win2k.
My sense is that Pharo is slower than Squeak, and I am suspicious that the Linux vm is not as efficient as it could be. Â I forget wheher I saw this only on Linux, but somewhere I reported a long-sourced method that I saw draw in monochrome and AGAIN in color. Â Nothing against Shout (as the self-apppointed comment pedant, I **really** appreciate syntax highlighting), there might be some room for efficiency by skipping the monochrom pass.
Resizing on Linux turns the main window black. Â It might make more sense to invalidate and draw once after the sizing is complete??
I have long heard people claim that Linux is faster than Windows, but I was not convinced. Â Having recently purchased a new machine and watched it labor under the weight of Vista long enough to see for myself what all the stench was about, I think I get it. Â Current Linux distributions with the customary graphical largese are not happy on 7+ year old machines that handily run Win2k. Â However, a new box that just barely gets by under Windows will be relatively quick running Linux.
I forget who said it: "software is getting slow faster than hardware is getting fast."
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:02 PM To: neil butterworth Cc: Pharo Development Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] about Pharo
Thanks for your reply :)
what you report is strange. Can you let us know:
    - vm
The Pharo VM is the current (as of a couple of days ago) download from the Pharo Homepage - Squeak 3.11.4 (beta).
    - OS
Win2K SP4
    - image version
Once again, a very recent download - pharo1.0-10493-rc1dev09.11.2.image
    - your display depth
True Color 24 bit
I have     Display depth -> 32
then 24 looks strange to me.
depth: bitsPerPixel     (bitsPerPixel > 32 or:         [(bitsPerPixel bitAnd: bitsPerPixel-1) ~= 0])         ifTrue: [self halt: 'bitsPerPixel must be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32'].     depth := bitsPerPixel
Can you type     Display depth
    and Display depth: 32 to see if this change something?
Because people are using pharo on production and we got an increase of 15% of Morphic in pharo 1.1 so I have some doubts.
It is very definitely much slower than Squeak on my system. This is an old laptop 900MHz P3, but it has no problems at all running Squeak.
We should keep an old machine around to test it. this is strange. Because the Ob2Browser is slow because it displays package and getting package information is slow. Which browser are you using Can you give a try to change it and use the system browser (to change click on the right icon on the window ... Choose new default menu)
Can you change the theme? using the preference pane?
Thanks
Stef
Neil Butterworth
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
On Nov 27, 2009, at 12:03 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
In my experience the truetype fonts and the mac skin are a major slowdown. If I disable both things I get a much faster image. Now I do like nice fonts, so I just live with that speed penalty ...
maybe we should add a note to the download page that on slow machines, people should download the Core image instead and switch the skin to a simpler one... Marcus
Lukas
On Thursday, November 26, 2009, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:
Stef,
I have a "slow" machine that stands ready to help with numbers any time; it is semi-retired now, running Ubuntu 9.04. It might be a good ideas to dual-boot it, but I find it challenging to work up the motivation to assault it with a Windows CD, and I have a similar era machine running win2k.
My sense is that Pharo is slower than Squeak, and I am suspicious that the Linux vm is not as efficient as it could be. I forget wheher I saw this only on Linux, but somewhere I reported a long-sourced method that I saw draw in monochrome and AGAIN in color. Nothing against Shout (as the self-apppointed comment pedant, I **really** appreciate syntax highlighting), there might be some room for efficiency by skipping the monochrom pass.
Resizing on Linux turns the main window black. It might make more sense to invalidate and draw once after the sizing is complete??
I have long heard people claim that Linux is faster than Windows, but I was not convinced. Having recently purchased a new machine and watched it labor under the weight of Vista long enough to see for myself what all the stench was about, I think I get it. Current Linux distributions with the customary graphical largese are not happy on 7+ year old machines that handily run Win2k. However, a new box that just barely gets by under Windows will be relatively quick running Linux.
I forget who said it: "software is getting slow faster than hardware is getting fast."
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:02 PM To: neil butterworth Cc: Pharo Development Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] about Pharo
Thanks for your reply :)
what you report is strange. Can you let us know:
- vm
The Pharo VM is the current (as of a couple of days ago) download from the Pharo Homepage - Squeak 3.11.4 (beta).
- OS
Win2K SP4
- image version
Once again, a very recent download - pharo1.0-10493-rc1dev09.11.2.image
- your display depth
True Color 24 bit
I have Display depth -> 32
then 24 looks strange to me.
depth: bitsPerPixel (bitsPerPixel > 32 or: [(bitsPerPixel bitAnd: bitsPerPixel-1) ~= 0]) ifTrue: [self halt: 'bitsPerPixel must be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32']. depth := bitsPerPixel
Can you type Display depth
and Display depth: 32 to see if this change something?
Because people are using pharo on production and we got an increase of 15% of Morphic in pharo 1.1 so I have some doubts.
It is very definitely much slower than Squeak on my system. This is an old laptop 900MHz P3, but it has no problems at all running Squeak.
We should keep an old machine around to test it. this is strange. Because the Ob2Browser is slow because it displays package and getting package information is slow. Which browser are you using Can you give a try to change it and use the system browser (to change click on the right icon on the window ... Choose new default menu)
Can you change the theme? using the preference pane?
Thanks
Stef
Neil Butterworth
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Marcus Denker <denker@acm.org> wrote:
On Nov 27, 2009, at 12:03 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
In my experience the truetype fonts and the mac skin are a major slowdown. If I disable both things I get a much faster image. Now I do like nice fonts, so I just live with that speed penalty ...
maybe we should add a note to the download page that on slow machines, people should download the Core image instead and switch the skin to a simpler one...
Once I wrote this: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/CodeSnippets Look the title "isabling features for more speed".
Marcus
Lukas
On Thursday, November 26, 2009, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:
Stef,
I have a "slow" machine that stands ready to help with numbers any time; it is semi-retired now, running Ubuntu 9.04. It might be a good ideas to dual-boot it, but I find it challenging to work up the motivation to assault it with a Windows CD, and I have a similar era machine running win2k.
My sense is that Pharo is slower than Squeak, and I am suspicious that the Linux vm is not as efficient as it could be. I forget wheher I saw this only on Linux, but somewhere I reported a long-sourced method that I saw draw in monochrome and AGAIN in color. Nothing against Shout (as the self-apppointed comment pedant, I **really** appreciate syntax highlighting), there might be some room for efficiency by skipping the monochrom pass.
Resizing on Linux turns the main window black. It might make more sense to invalidate and draw once after the sizing is complete??
I have long heard people claim that Linux is faster than Windows, but I was not convinced. Having recently purchased a new machine and watched it labor under the weight of Vista long enough to see for myself what all the stench was about, I think I get it. Current Linux distributions with the customary graphical largese are not happy on 7+ year old machines that handily run Win2k. However, a new box that just barely gets by under Windows will be relatively quick running Linux.
I forget who said it: "software is getting slow faster than hardware is getting fast."
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:02 PM To: neil butterworth Cc: Pharo Development Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] about Pharo
Thanks for your reply :)
what you report is strange. Can you let us know:
- vm
The Pharo VM is the current (as of a couple of days ago) download from the Pharo Homepage - Squeak 3.11.4 (beta).
- OS
Win2K SP4
- image version
Once again, a very recent download - pharo1.0-10493-rc1dev09.11.2.image
- your display depth
True Color 24 bit
I have Display depth -> 32
then 24 looks strange to me.
depth: bitsPerPixel (bitsPerPixel > 32 or: [(bitsPerPixel bitAnd: bitsPerPixel-1) ~= 0]) ifTrue: [self halt: 'bitsPerPixel must be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32']. depth := bitsPerPixel
Can you type Display depth
and Display depth: 32 to see if this change something?
Because people are using pharo on production and we got an increase of 15% of Morphic in pharo 1.1 so I have some doubts.
It is very definitely much slower than Squeak on my system. This is an old laptop 900MHz P3, but it has no problems at all running Squeak.
We should keep an old machine around to test it. this is strange. Because the Ob2Browser is slow because it displays package and getting package information is slow. Which browser are you using Can you give a try to change it and use the system browser (to change click on the right icon on the window ... Choose new default menu)
Can you change the theme? using the preference pane?
Thanks
Stef
Neil Butterworth
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Yep, I think we should create a benchmark _image_ then... Em 26/11/2009 20:02, Stéphane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse@inria.fr > escreveu: Thanks for your reply :)
what you report is strange. Can you let us know:
- vm
The Pharo VM is the current (as of a couple of days ago) download from the Pharo Homepage - Squeak 3.11.4 (beta).
- OS
Win2K SP4
- image version
Once again, a very recent download - pharo1.0-10493-rc1dev09.11.2.image
- your display depth
True Color 24 bit
I have Display depth -> 32 then 24 looks strange to me. depth: bitsPerPixel (bitsPerPixel > 32 or: [(bitsPerPixel bitAnd: bitsPerPixel-1) ~= 0]) ifTrue: [self halt: 'bitsPerPixel must be 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32']. depth := bitsPerPixel Can you type Display depth and Display depth: 32 to see if this change something?
Because people are using pharo on production and we got an increase of 15% of Morphic in pharo 1.1 so I have some doubts.
It is very definitely much slower than Squeak on my system. This is an old laptop 900MHz P3, but it has no problems at all running Squeak.
We should keep an old machine around to test it. this is strange. Because the Ob2Browser is slow because it displays package and getting package information is slow. Which browser are you using Can you give a try to change it and use the system browser (to change click on the right icon on the window ... Choose new default menu) Can you change the theme? using the preference pane? Thanks Stef
Neil Butterworth
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
participants (6)
-
csrabak＠bol.com.br -
Lukas Renggli -
Marcus Denker -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Schwab,Wilhelm K -
Stéphane Ducasse