how can I have a working roassal 3d ?
Hello, I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot show them a compiler). On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'. Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got: [image: Images intégrées 1] How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ? I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals). Thanks !
The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D stuff. I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off Rossal with the 3.0 release.... On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot show them a compiler).
On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
<Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png>
How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
Thanks !
Hi Clément, There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d : Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) loadDevelopment For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an interesting idea. Greetings, Ronie 2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D stuff.
I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off Rossal with the 3.0 release....
On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot show them a compiler).
On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
<Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png>
How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
Thanks !
Ronnie, The point of the Configuration Browser is to load #stable configurations, if those do not exist or cannot be produced, than the configuration should no be there I think. The goal of the Configuration Browser is to make it super easy for users to load something with just one click. I tried your Gofer script but I am not 100% sure everything really works. If I try some of the R3Examples, I see mostly black boxes. Is there not something like the Rossal Examples for 3D ? Because that one is cool and easy for a beginner like me ;-) But don't get me wrong, I like what you guys are doing ! Sven On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:32, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Clément,
There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) loadDevelopment
For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an interesting idea.
Greetings, Ronie
2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>: The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D stuff.
I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off Rossal with the 3.0 release....
On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot show them a compiler).
On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
<Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png>
How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
Thanks !
Hi Sven, About the configuration browser, I don't know why Roassal 3D it is there, because currently is highly unstable and it is going to keep being for a while. We are still missing lot of features and we need to fix lot of bugs. As for the black boxes, that is a shader issue which I could reproduce in my machine using an Intel graphics card but I haven't have time to track where it is. As for something like the Roassal examples, that is definitely something that we need. If there is too much urgency on using Roassal 3D, please, let me know so I can focus on getting a stable release soon. Greetings, Ronie 2014-04-30 15:25 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
Ronnie,
The point of the Configuration Browser is to load #stable configurations, if those do not exist or cannot be produced, than the configuration should no be there I think. The goal of the Configuration Browser is to make it super easy for users to load something with just one click.
I tried your Gofer script but I am not 100% sure everything really works. If I try some of the R3Examples, I see mostly black boxes.
Is there not something like the Rossal Examples for 3D ? Because that one is cool and easy for a beginner like me ;-)
But don't get me wrong, I like what you guys are doing !
Sven
On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:32, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Clément,
There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) loadDevelopment
For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an interesting idea.
Greetings, Ronie
2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>: The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D stuff.
I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off Rossal with the 3.0 release....
On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot show them a compiler).
On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
<Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png>
How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
Thanks !
On 30 Apr 2014, at 23:48, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Sven,
About the configuration browser, I don't know why Roassal 3D it is there, because currently is highly unstable and it is going to keep being for a while. We are still missing lot of features and we need to fix lot of bugs.
I suspected as much, it probably was copied in a bit too early.
As for the black boxes, that is a shader issue which I could reproduce in my machine using an Intel graphics card but I haven't have time to track where it is.
OK.
As for something like the Roassal examples, that is definitely something that we need.
If there is too much urgency on using Roassal 3D, please, let me know so I can focus on getting a stable release soon.
No need to do anything special for me, just keep on doing things at your own schedule, and be sure to let us know when we mortals can start using it.
Greetings, Ronie
2014-04-30 15:25 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>: Ronnie,
The point of the Configuration Browser is to load #stable configurations, if those do not exist or cannot be produced, than the configuration should no be there I think. The goal of the Configuration Browser is to make it super easy for users to load something with just one click.
I tried your Gofer script but I am not 100% sure everything really works. If I try some of the R3Examples, I see mostly black boxes.
Is there not something like the Rossal Examples for 3D ? Because that one is cool and easy for a beginner like me ;-)
But don't get me wrong, I like what you guys are doing !
Sven
On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:32, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Clément,
There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) loadDevelopment
For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an interesting idea.
Greetings, Ronie
2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>: The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D stuff.
I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off Rossal with the 3.0 release....
On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot show them a compiler).
On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
<Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png>
How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
Thanks !
Yes Ronie, we need a stable version :-) It is important to always expose what we have, else it get forgotten too easily... Alexandre On Apr 30, 2014, at 6:48 PM, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Sven,
About the configuration browser, I don't know why Roassal 3D it is there, because currently is highly unstable and it is going to keep being for a while. We are still missing lot of features and we need to fix lot of bugs. As for the black boxes, that is a shader issue which I could reproduce in my machine using an Intel graphics card but I haven't have time to track where it is.
As for something like the Roassal examples, that is definitely something that we need.
If there is too much urgency on using Roassal 3D, please, let me know so I can focus on getting a stable release soon.
Greetings, Ronie
2014-04-30 15:25 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>: Ronnie,
The point of the Configuration Browser is to load #stable configurations, if those do not exist or cannot be produced, than the configuration should no be there I think. The goal of the Configuration Browser is to make it super easy for users to load something with just one click.
I tried your Gofer script but I am not 100% sure everything really works. If I try some of the R3Examples, I see mostly black boxes.
Is there not something like the Rossal Examples for 3D ? Because that one is cool and easy for a beginner like me ;-)
But don't get me wrong, I like what you guys are doing !
Sven
On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:32, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Clément,
There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) loadDevelopment
For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an interesting idea.
Greetings, Ronie
2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>: The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D stuff.
I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off Rossal with the 3.0 release....
On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot show them a compiler).
On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
<Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png>
How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
Thanks !
-- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
2014-04-30 11:32 GMT-07:00 Ronie Salgado <roniesalg@gmail.com>:
Hi Clément,
There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) loadDevelopment
For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an interesting idea.
What do you mean there is no support for fractals ? Can you draw a 3D shape based on an Array of Point3D ? Fractals are nice because they impress people on demos and they are fun to implement, however I don't know if they represent a common use case for business applications. Regards Clement
Greetings, Ronie
2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D
stuff.
I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off Rossal with the 3.0 release....
On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot show them a compiler).
On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
<Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png>
How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
Thanks !
You don't draw a shape with an array of points, unless you are using a voxel engine or a volumetric renderer. In 3D graphics you usually are drawing surfaces composed of triangles. There's R3MeshBuilder and R3MeshShape for drawing generic meshes. I believe there examples are a bit hidden. For each vertex in a triangle you have specify: - Position - Surface normal value at position - Color - Texture coordinates. Used if the material has a texture. In 3D, the problem of fractals is what kind of fractal you want make. A rough classification is like this: - 2D textures - Solid textures - Displacement maps. This is used for terrain heights. - Hyper-textures For images of them, this talk of Ken Perlin http://www.noisemachine.com/talk1/ is really good. The first three ones are easy to make, but to do them efficiently and animated in real-time you need offload the computation to the GPU by using shaders or OpenCL. A hyper texture defines a density function for each point in the space. This requires a volumetric renderer. which is really hard to make in OpenGL. But you get volumetric smoke, clouds and very cool things. I actually have to make a demo with fractal/multifractal terrains, for a course about computational geometry I am taking, and I choose to use Pharo. But I want to use OpenCL for the computation because I can make things more flexible easily but in the expense of complicating the synchronization. I am starting this personal project to start making a 3D game engine in Pharo and also for as an opportunity to take all the low-level graphics out of Roassal 3D. When I have something to show, I will be posting it. Regards Ronie 2014-04-30 19:43 GMT-04:00 Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com>:
2014-04-30 11:32 GMT-07:00 Ronie Salgado <roniesalg@gmail.com>:
Hi Clément,
There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) loadDevelopment
For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an interesting idea.
What do you mean there is no support for fractals ? Can you draw a 3D shape based on an Array of Point3D ?
Fractals are nice because they impress people on demos and they are fun to implement, however I don't know if they represent a common use case for business applications.
Regards Clement
Greetings, Ronie
2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D
stuff.
I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off Rossal with the 3.0 release....
On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot show them a compiler).
On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
<Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png>
How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
Thanks !
OK, I didn't know it was that complex, I've always used 2D or 3D isometric until now. So I can't do it it would take me too much time :-( I can't wait to see your fractal terrain demo. Keep us in touch. 2014-04-30 18:37 GMT-07:00 Ronie Salgado <roniesalg@gmail.com>:
You don't draw a shape with an array of points, unless you are using a voxel engine or a volumetric renderer. In 3D graphics you usually are drawing surfaces composed of triangles. There's R3MeshBuilder and R3MeshShape for drawing generic meshes. I believe there examples are a bit hidden. For each vertex in a triangle you have specify: - Position - Surface normal value at position - Color - Texture coordinates. Used if the material has a texture.
In 3D, the problem of fractals is what kind of fractal you want make. A rough classification is like this: - 2D textures - Solid textures - Displacement maps. This is used for terrain heights. - Hyper-textures
For images of them, this talk of Ken Perlin http://www.noisemachine.com/talk1/ is really good. The first three ones are easy to make, but to do them efficiently and animated in real-time you need offload the computation to the GPU by using shaders or OpenCL.
A hyper texture defines a density function for each point in the space. This requires a volumetric renderer. which is really hard to make in OpenGL. But you get volumetric smoke, clouds and very cool things.
I actually have to make a demo with fractal/multifractal terrains, for a course about computational geometry I am taking, and I choose to use Pharo. But I want to use OpenCL for the computation because I can make things more flexible easily but in the expense of complicating the synchronization. I am starting this personal project to start making a 3D game engine in Pharo and also for as an opportunity to take all the low-level graphics out of Roassal 3D.
When I have something to show, I will be posting it.
Regards Ronie
2014-04-30 19:43 GMT-04:00 Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com>:
2014-04-30 11:32 GMT-07:00 Ronie Salgado <roniesalg@gmail.com>:
Hi Clément,
There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) loadDevelopment
For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an interesting idea.
What do you mean there is no support for fractals ? Can you draw a 3D shape based on an Array of Point3D ?
Fractals are nice because they impress people on demos and they are fun to implement, however I don't know if they represent a common use case for business applications.
Regards Clement
Greetings, Ronie
2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D
stuff.
I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off Rossal with the 3.0 release....
On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot show them a compiler).
On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
<Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png>
How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
Thanks !
participants (4)
-
Alexandre Bergel -
Clément Bera -
Ronie Salgado -
Sven Van Caekenberghe