[Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: "Real" packages.
Stef, Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; I'll speak for myself on that but suspect others would agree. Packages are of course extremely useful. Method categories are also quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be assigned to a given method. Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by rules) with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as part of packages). I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of it. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029
stephane.ducasse@inria.fr 2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>> Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both kind of packages could coexist and we should probably revive it for 1.1
Stef On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote:
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David Röthlisberger <squeak@webcitas.ch
wrote:
So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class entities, OB would be much faster and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB models packages and class cats itself, has to take the information from both the Monticello's working copy managers and the SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what can we do. We should really invest in bringing real packages to Pharo.
If you want "real" packages, I've implemented them in Squeak:
http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages
The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak image is linked from here: http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak
I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and is released under the MIT license if anybody else wants it.
Gulik.
-- http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg http://gulik.pbwiki.com/ _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Bill Schwab wrote:
Stef,
Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; I'll speak for myself on that but suspect others would agree. I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree.
Travis
Packages are of course extremely useful. Method categories are also quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be assigned to a given method. Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by rules) with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as part of packages).
I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of it.
Bill
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029
stephane.ducasse@inria.fr 2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>>
Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both kind of packages could coexist and we should probably revive it for 1.1
Stef On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote:
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David Röthlisberger <squeak@webcitas.ch
wrote:
So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class entities, OB would be much faster and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB models packages and class cats itself, has to take the information from both the Monticello's working copy managers and the SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what can we do. We should really invest in bringing real packages to Pharo.
If you want "real" packages, I've implemented them in Squeak:
http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages
The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak image is linked from here: http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak
I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and is released under the MIT license if anybody else wants it.
Gulik.
-- http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg http://gulik.pbwiki.com/ _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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I hate not having a real namespace. I hate to call my class DBXConnection instead of Connection. I think namespaces are very useful. Something like Java packages or similar would be grate for me. Cheers, Mariano On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Travis Kay <tlk@nb.sympatico.ca> wrote:
Bill Schwab wrote:
Stef,
Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; I'll speak for myself on that but suspect others would agree. I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree.
Travis
Packages are of course extremely useful. Method categories are also quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be assigned to a given method. Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by rules) with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as part of packages).
I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of it.
Bill
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029
stephane.ducasse@inria.fr 2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>>
Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both kind of packages could coexist and we should probably revive it for 1.1
Stef On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote:
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David Röthlisberger <squeak@webcitas.ch
wrote:
So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class entities, OB would be much faster and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB models packages and class cats itself, has to take the information from both the Monticello's working copy managers and the SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what can we do. We should really invest in bringing real packages to Pharo.
If you want "real" packages, I've implemented them in Squeak:
http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages
The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak image is linked from here: http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak
I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and is released under the MIT license if anybody else wants it.
Gulik.
-- http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg http://gulik.pbwiki.com/ _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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Well... I disagree with you, Mariano. If you allow packages, suddenly you will have things like: com.pirulo.Date, ar.com.pirulin.Date and a lot of classes who, in fact, should be just Date (and that's just an example) Cheers, Esteban On 2009-02-11 12:13:07 -0300, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> said:
I hate not having a real namespace. I hate to call my class DBXConnection instead of Connection. I think namespaces are very useful. Something like Java packages or similar would be grate for me.
Cheers,
Mariano
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Travis Kay <tlk@nb.sympatico.ca> wrote:
Bill Schwab wrote:
Stef,
Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; I'll speak for myself on that but suspect others would agree. I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree.
Travis
Packages are of course extremely useful. Method categories are also quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be assigned to a given method. Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by rules) with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as part of packages).
I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of it.
Bill
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029
stephane.ducasse@inria.fr 2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>>
Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both kind of packages could coexist and we should probably revive it for 1.1
Stef On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote:
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David R=F6thlisberger <squeak@webcita= s.ch
wrote:
So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class entities, OB would be much faster and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB models packages and class cats itself, has to take the information from both the Monticello's working copy managers and the SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what can we do. We should really invest in bringing real packages to Pharo.
If you want "real" packages, I've implemented them in Squeak:
http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages
The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak image is linked from here: http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak
I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and is released under the MIT license if anybody else wants it.
Gulik.
-- http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg http://gulik.pbwiki.com/ _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
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I hate not having a real namespace. I hate to call my class DBXConnection i= nstead of Connection. I think namespaces are very useful. Something like Ja= va packages or similar would be grate for me. <br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Marian= o<br> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Travis Kay = <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:tlk@nb.sympatico.ca">tlk-F7KtY6MJiVI/4Up/o1S3Qw@public.gmane.org=
co.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"b= order-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; paddin= g-left: 1ex;"> <div class=3D"Ih2E3d">Bill Schwab wrote:<br> > Stef,<br> ><br> > Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; I'll = speak for myself on that but suspect others would agree.<br> </div>I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree.<br> <br> Travis<br> <div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br> > Packages are of course extremely useful. Method categories are a= lso quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be assigned to = a given method. Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by rules) = with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as part of packages= ).<br>
><br> > I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of it.<br> ><br> > Bill<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.<br> > University of Florida<br> > Department of Anesthesiology<br> > PO Box 100254<br> > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254<br> ><br> > Email: <a href=3D"mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu">bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<=
/a><br> >
Tel: (352) 273-6785<br> > FAX: (352) 392-7029<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >>>> <a href=3D"mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr">stephane.duca=
sse@inria.fr</a>
2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>><br> >>>><br> > Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both kind of= <br> > packages could coexist<br> > and we should probably revive it for 1.1<br> ><br> > Stef<br> > On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote:<br> ><br> ><br> >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David R=F6thlisberger <squeak@= webcitas.ch<br> >><br> >>> wrote:<br> >>><br> >> So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class entities, OB<br=
>> would be much faster<br> >> and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB models packages and class<b= r> >> cats itself, has to<br> >> take the information from both the Monticello's working copy<b= r> >> managers and the<br> >> SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what can we d= o.<br> >> We should really invest in bringing real packages to Pharo.<br> >><br> >><br> >> If you want "real" packages, I've implemented them i= n Squeak:<br> >><br> >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces" target=3D"_blank">h= ttp://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces</a><br> >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages" target=3D"_blank">htt= p://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages</a><br> >><br> >> The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak image = is<br> >> linked from here:<br> >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak" target=3D"_blank"=
http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak</a><br> >><br> >> I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and is rele= ased<br> >> under the MIT license if anybody else wants it.<br> >><br> >> Gulik.<br> >><br> >> --<br> >> <a href=3D"http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg" targ= et=3D"_blank">http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg</a><br> >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://guli= k.pbwiki.com/</a><br> >> _______________________________________________<br> >> Pharo-project mailing list<br> >> <a href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-proje=
ct@lists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br> >>
<a href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p= haro-project" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailma= n/listinfo/pharo-project</a><br> >><br> ><br> ><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > Pharo-project mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@l=
ists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br> >
<a href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo= -project" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/li= stinfo/pharo-project</a><br> ><br> ><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > Pharo-project mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@l=
ists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br> >
<a href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo= -project" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/li= stinfo/pharo-project</a><br> </div></div>> ----------------------------------------------------------= --------------<br> ><br> ><br> > No virus found in this incoming message.<br> > Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com" target=3D"_blank">www.= avg.com</a><br> > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release Date: 02/1= 0/09 07:20:00<br> <div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c">><br> ><br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> Pharo-project mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@lists.=
gforge.inria.fr</a><br> <a
href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-proj= ect" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinf= o/pharo-project</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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Sorry, I can't resist exploiting the typo: the would be "grate" (vs. great) for me too. I also suspect that name spaces would turn into a horrible mess in short order. I could learn to live with messages as class names, something like Smalltalk goGators Dictionary etc. so that the "name space" is really an object accessed by a selector (#goGators above) and Dictionary then is a message to same. I got the idea from Dolphin. AFAIK, it has not gone terribly far, but my sense is that it does what one really needs from name spaces without inviting the slippery slope into Java packages. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Esteban Lorenzano Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:40 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: "Real" packages. Well... I disagree with you, Mariano. If you allow packages, suddenly you will have things like: com.pirulo.Date, ar.com.pirulin.Date and a lot of classes who, in fact, should be just Date (and that's just an example) Cheers, Esteban On 2009-02-11 12:13:07 -0300, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com> said:
I hate not having a real namespace. I hate to call my class DBXConnection instead of Connection. I think namespaces are very useful. Something like Java packages or similar would be grate for me.
Cheers,
Mariano
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Travis Kay <tlk@nb.sympatico.ca> wrote:
Bill Schwab wrote:
Stef,
Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; I'll speak for myself on that but suspect others would agree. I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree.
Travis
Packages are of course extremely useful. Method categories are also quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be assigned to a given method. Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by rules) with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as part of packages).
I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of it.
Bill
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029
stephane.ducasse@inria.fr 2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>>
Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both kind of packages could coexist and we should probably revive it for 1.1
Stef On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote:
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David R=F6thlisberger <squeak@webcita= s.ch
wrote:
So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class entities, OB would be much faster and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB models packages and class cats itself, has to take the information from both the Monticello's working copy managers and the SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what can we do. We should really invest in bringing real packages to Pharo.
If you want "real" packages, I've implemented them in Squeak:
http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages
The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak image is linked from here: http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak
I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and is released under the MIT license if anybody else wants it.
Gulik.
-- http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg http://gulik.pbwiki.com/ _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
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02/10/09 07:20:00
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
I hate not having a real namespace. I hate to call my class DBXConnection i= nstead of Connection. I think namespaces are very useful. Something like Ja= va packages or similar would be grate for me. <br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Marian= o<br> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Travis Kay = <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:tlk@nb.sympatico.ca">tlk-F7KtY6MJiVI/4Up/o1S3Qw@public.gmane.org=
co.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"b= order-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; paddin= g-left: 1ex;"> <div class=3D"Ih2E3d">Bill Schwab wrote:<br> > Stef,<br> ><br> > Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; I'll = speak for myself on that but suspect others would agree.<br> </div>I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree.<br> <br> Travis<br> <div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br> > Packages are of course extremely useful. Method categories are a= lso quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be assigned to = a given method. Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by rules) = with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as part of packages= ).<br>
><br> > I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of it.<br> ><br> > Bill<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.<br> > University of Florida<br> > Department of Anesthesiology<br> > PO Box 100254<br> > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254<br> ><br> > Email: <a href=3D"mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu">bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<=
/a><br> >
Tel: (352) 273-6785<br> > FAX: (352) 392-7029<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >>>> <a href=3D"mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr">stephane.duca=
sse@inria.fr</a>
2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>><br> >>>><br> > Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both kind of= <br> > packages could coexist<br> > and we should probably revive it for 1.1<br> ><br> > Stef<br> > On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote:<br> ><br> ><br> >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David R=F6thlisberger <squeak@= webcitas.ch<br> >><br> >>> wrote:<br> >>><br> >> So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class entities, OB<br=
>> would be much faster<br> >> and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB models packages and class<b= r> >> cats itself, has to<br> >> take the information from both the Monticello's working copy<b= r> >> managers and the<br> >> SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what can we d= o.<br> >> We should really invest in bringing real packages to Pharo.<br> >><br> >><br> >> If you want "real" packages, I've implemented them i= n Squeak:<br> >><br> >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces" target=3D"_blank">h= ttp://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces</a><br> >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages" target=3D"_blank">htt= p://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages</a><br> >><br> >> The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak image = is<br> >> linked from here:<br> >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak" target=3D"_blank"=
http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak</a><br> >><br> >> I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and is rele= ased<br> >> under the MIT license if anybody else wants it.<br> >><br> >> Gulik.<br> >><br> >> --<br> >> <a href=3D"http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg" targ= et=3D"_blank">http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg</a><br> >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://guli= k.pbwiki.com/</a><br> >> _______________________________________________<br> >> Pharo-project mailing list<br> >> <a href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-proje=
ct@lists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br> >>
<a href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p= haro-project" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailma= n/listinfo/pharo-project</a><br> >><br> ><br> ><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > Pharo-project mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@l=
ists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br> >
<a href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo= -project" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/li= stinfo/pharo-project</a><br> ><br> ><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > Pharo-project mailing list<br> > <a href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@l=
ists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br> >
<a href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo= -project" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/li= stinfo/pharo-project</a><br> </div></div>> ----------------------------------------------------------= --------------<br> ><br> ><br> > No virus found in this incoming message.<br> > Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com" target=3D"_blank">www.= avg.com</a><br> > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release Date: 02/1= 0/09 07:20:00<br> <div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c">><br> ><br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> Pharo-project mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@lists.=
gforge.inria.fr</a><br> <a
href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-proj= ect" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinf= o/pharo-project</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Gemstone uses an order list of dictionaries for global lookup. Each user can change the order of the list or insert their own dictionaries into the list ... makes for quite a bit of flexibility.... you can load code into a particular dictionary...and the global resolution is at compile time (you can do lookup at runtime if you wish). The advantage is that the code itself has no namespace artifacts at all. I'm mentioning this as a point of information more than a serious suggestion that Pharo adopt such an approach, though:) Dale ----- "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote: | Sorry, I can't resist exploiting the typo: the would be "grate" (vs. | great) for me too. I also suspect that name spaces would turn into a | horrible mess in short order. | | I could learn to live with messages as class names, something like | | Smalltalk goGators Dictionary etc. | | so that the "name space" is really an object accessed by a selector | (#goGators above) and Dictionary then is a message to same. I got the | idea from Dolphin. AFAIK, it has not gone terribly far, but my sense | is that it does what one really needs from name spaces without | inviting the slippery slope into Java packages. | | Bill | | | -----Original Message----- | From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of | Esteban Lorenzano | Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:40 PM | To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: "Real" packages. | | Well... I disagree with you, Mariano. If you allow packages, suddenly | you will have things like: | | com.pirulo.Date, | ar.com.pirulin.Date | | and a lot of classes who, in fact, should be just Date | | (and that's just an example) | | Cheers, | Esteban | | On 2009-02-11 12:13:07 -0300, Mariano Martinez Peck | <marianopeck@gmail.com> said: | | > | > | > I hate not having a real namespace. I hate to call my class | > DBXConnection instead of Connection. I think namespaces are very | > useful. Something like Java packages or similar would be grate for | me. | > | > Cheers, | > | > Mariano | > | > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Travis Kay <tlk@nb.sympatico.ca> | > wrote: | > | >> Bill Schwab wrote: | >>> Stef, | >>> | >>> Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; I'll | | >>> speak | >> for myself on that but suspect others would agree. | >> I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree. | >> | >> Travis | >> | >>> Packages are of course extremely useful. Method categories are | also | >> quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be assigned | | >> to a given method. Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by | >> rules) with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as | part of packages). | >>> | >>> I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of | it. | >>> | >>> Bill | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. | >>> University of Florida | >>> Department of Anesthesiology | >>> PO Box 100254 | >>> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 | >>> | >>> Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu | >>> Tel: (352) 273-6785 | >>> FAX: (352) 392-7029 | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>>>>> stephane.ducasse@inria.fr 2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>> | >>>>>> | >>> Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both | kind | >>> of packages could coexist and we should probably revive it for | 1.1 | >>> | >>> Stef | >>> On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote: | >>> | >>> | >>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David R=F6thlisberger | >>>> <squeak@webcita= | > s.ch | >>>> | >>>>> wrote: | >>>>> | >>>> So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class entities, OB | >>>> would be much faster and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB | models | >>>> packages and class cats itself, has to take the information from | | >>>> both the Monticello's working copy managers and the | >>>> SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what can we | do. | >>>> We should really invest in bringing real packages to Pharo. | >>>> | >>>> | >>>> If you want "real" packages, I've implemented them in Squeak: | >>>> | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages | >>>> | >>>> The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak image | is | >>>> linked from here: | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak | >>>> | >>>> I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and is | released | >>>> under the MIT license if anybody else wants it. | >>>> | >>>> Gulik. | >>>> | >>>> -- | >>>> http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/ | >>>> _______________________________________________ | >>>> Pharo-project mailing list | >>>> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>>> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >>>> | >>> | >>> | >>> _______________________________________________ | >>> Pharo-project mailing list | >>> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >>> | >>> | >>> _______________________________________________ | >>> Pharo-project mailing list | >>> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >>> | -----------------------------------------------------------------------= | > - | >>> | >>> | >>> No virus found in this incoming message. | >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com | >>> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release Date: | >> 02/10/09 07:20:00 | >>> | >>> | >> | >> | >> _______________________________________________ | >> Pharo-project mailing list | >> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >> | > | > | > I hate not having a real namespace. I hate to call my class | DBXConnection i= | > nstead of Connection. I think namespaces are very useful. Something | like Ja= | > va packages or similar would be grate for me. | <br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Marian= | > o<br> | > <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM, | Travis Kay = | > <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a | > | href=3D"mailto:tlk@nb.sympatico.ca">tlk-F7KtY6MJiVI/4Up/o1S3Qw@public.gmane.org= | co.ca</a>></span> | > | > wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"b= | > order-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; | paddin= | > g-left: 1ex;"> | > <div class=3D"Ih2E3d">Bill Schwab wrote:<br> | > > Stef,<br> | > ><br> | > > Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; | I'll = | > speak for myself on that but suspect others would agree.<br> | > </div>I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree.<br> | > <br> | > Travis<br> | > <div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br> | > > Packages are of course extremely useful. Method | categories are a= | > lso quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be | assigned to = | > a given method. Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by | rules) = | > with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as part of | packages= | > ).<br> | > | > ><br> | > > I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of | it.<br> | > ><br> | > > Bill<br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.<br> | > > University of Florida<br> | > > Department of Anesthesiology<br> | > > PO Box 100254<br> | > > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254<br> | > ><br> | > > Email: <a | > href=3D"mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu">bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<= | /a><br> | > | > | > Tel: (352) 273-6785<br> | > > FAX: (352) 392-7029<br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > >>>> <a | > href=3D"mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr">stephane.duca= | sse@inria.fr</a> | > | > 2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>><br> | > >>>><br> | > > Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both | kind of= | > <br> | > > packages could coexist<br> | > > and we should probably revive it for 1.1<br> | > ><br> | > > Stef<br> | > > On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote:<br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David R=F6thlisberger | <squeak@= | > webcitas.ch<br> | > >><br> | > >>> wrote:<br> | > >>><br> | > >> So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class | entities, OB<br= | >> | > >> would be much faster<br> | > >> and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB models packages and | class<b= | > r> | > >> cats itself, has to<br> | > >> take the information from both the Monticello's working | copy<b= | > r> | > >> managers and the<br> | > >> SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what | can we d= | > o.<br> | > >> We should really invest in bringing real packages to | Pharo.<br> | > >><br> | > >><br> | > >> If you want "real" packages, I've implemented | them i= | > n Squeak:<br> | > >><br> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces" | target=3D"_blank">h= | > ttp://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces</a><br> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages" | target=3D"_blank">htt= | > p://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages</a><br> | > >><br> | > >> The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak | image = | > is<br> | > >> linked from here:<br> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak" | target=3D"_blank"= | >> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak</a><br> | > >><br> | > >> I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and | is rele= | > ased<br> | > >> under the MIT license if anybody else wants it.<br> | > >><br> | > >> Gulik.<br> | > >><br> | > >> --<br> | > >> <a | href=3D"http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg" targ= | > | et=3D"_blank">http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg</a><br> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/" | target=3D"_blank">http://guli= | > k.pbwiki.com/</a><br> | > >> _______________________________________________<br> | > >> Pharo-project mailing list<br> | > >> <a | > href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-proje= | ct@lists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br> | >> | > | > <a href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p= | > haro-project" | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailma= | > n/listinfo/pharo-project</a><br> | > >><br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > > _______________________________________________<br> | > > Pharo-project mailing list<br> | > > <a | > | href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@l= | ists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br> | > | > | > <a | href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo= | > -project" | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/li= | > stinfo/pharo-project</a><br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > > _______________________________________________<br> | > > Pharo-project mailing list<br> | > > <a | > | href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@l= | ists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br> | > | > | > <a | href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo= | > -project" | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/li= | > stinfo/pharo-project</a><br> | > </div></div>> | ----------------------------------------------------------= | > --------------<br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > > No virus found in this incoming message.<br> | > > Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com" | target=3D"_blank">www.= | > avg.com</a><br> | > > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release | Date: 02/1= | > 0/09 07:20:00<br> | > <div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c">><br> | > ><br> | > <br> | > <br> | > _______________________________________________<br> | > Pharo-project mailing list<br> | > <a | > | href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@lists.= | gforge.inria.fr</a><br> | <a | > | > | href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-proj= | > ect" | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinf= | > o/pharo-project</a><br> | > </div></div></blockquote></div><br> | > | > | > | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Pharo-project mailing list | > Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | | | | | _______________________________________________ | Pharo-project mailing list | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | | _______________________________________________ | Pharo-project mailing list | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
El jue, 18-02-2010 a las 12:18 -0800, Dale Henrichs escribió:
Gemstone uses an order list of dictionaries for global lookup. Each user can change the order of the list or insert their own dictionaries into the list ... makes for quite a bit of flexibility.... you can load code into a particular dictionary...and the global resolution is at compile time (you can do lookup at runtime if you wish).
The advantage is that the code itself has no namespace artifacts at all.
I'm mentioning this as a point of information more than a serious suggestion that Pharo adopt such an approach, though:)
Why not, if it has been proved for a long time in Gemstone, shouldn't be sensible to create something similar for Pharo? Or it uses some kind of proprietary technology from Gemstone? Well just asking. Thanks
Dale
----- "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:
| Sorry, I can't resist exploiting the typo: the would be "grate" (vs. | great) for me too. I also suspect that name spaces would turn into a | horrible mess in short order. | | I could learn to live with messages as class names, something like | | Smalltalk goGators Dictionary etc. | | so that the "name space" is really an object accessed by a selector | (#goGators above) and Dictionary then is a message to same. I got the | idea from Dolphin. AFAIK, it has not gone terribly far, but my sense | is that it does what one really needs from name spaces without | inviting the slippery slope into Java packages. | | Bill | | | -----Original Message----- | From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of | Esteban Lorenzano | Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:40 PM | To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: "Real" packages. | | Well... I disagree with you, Mariano. If you allow packages, suddenly | you will have things like: | | com.pirulo.Date, | ar.com.pirulin.Date | | and a lot of classes who, in fact, should be just Date | | (and that's just an example) | | Cheers, | Esteban | | On 2009-02-11 12:13:07 -0300, Mariano Martinez Peck | <marianopeck@gmail.com> said: | | > | > | > I hate not having a real namespace. I hate to call my class | > DBXConnection instead of Connection. I think namespaces are very | > useful. Something like Java packages or similar would be grate for | me. | > | > Cheers, | > | > Mariano | > | > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Travis Kay <tlk@nb.sympatico.ca> | > wrote: | > | >> Bill Schwab wrote: | >>> Stef, | >>> | >>> Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; I'll | | >>> speak | >> for myself on that but suspect others would agree. | >> I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree. | >> | >> Travis | >> | >>> Packages are of course extremely useful. Method categories are | also | >> quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be assigned | | >> to a given method. Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by | >> rules) with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as | part of packages). | >>> | >>> I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of | it. | >>> | >>> Bill | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. | >>> University of Florida | >>> Department of Anesthesiology | >>> PO Box 100254 | >>> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 | >>> | >>> Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu | >>> Tel: (352) 273-6785 | >>> FAX: (352) 392-7029 | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>>>>> stephane.ducasse@inria.fr 2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>> | >>>>>> | >>> Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both | kind | >>> of packages could coexist and we should probably revive it for | 1.1 | >>> | >>> Stef | >>> On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote: | >>> | >>> | >>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David R=F6thlisberger | >>>> <squeak@webcita= | > s.ch | >>>> | >>>>> wrote: | >>>>> | >>>> So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class entities, OB | >>>> would be much faster and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB | models | >>>> packages and class cats itself, has to take the information from | | >>>> both the Monticello's working copy managers and the | >>>> SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what can we | do. | >>>> We should really invest in bringing real packages to Pharo. | >>>> | >>>> | >>>> If you want "real" packages, I've implemented them in Squeak: | >>>> | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages | >>>> | >>>> The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak image | is | >>>> linked from here: | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak | >>>> | >>>> I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and is | released | >>>> under the MIT license if anybody else wants it. | >>>> | >>>> Gulik. | >>>> | >>>> -- | >>>> http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/ | >>>> _______________________________________________ | >>>> Pharo-project mailing list | >>>> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>>> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >>>> | >>> | >>> | >>> _______________________________________________ | >>> Pharo-project mailing list | >>> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >>> | >>> | >>> _______________________________________________ | >>> Pharo-project mailing list | >>> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >>> | -----------------------------------------------------------------------= | > - | >>> | >>> | >>> No virus found in this incoming message. | >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com | >>> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release Date: | >> 02/10/09 07:20:00 | >>> | >>> | >> | >> | >> _______________________________________________ | >> Pharo-project mailing list | >> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | >> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >> | > | > | > I hate not having a real namespace. I hate to call my class | DBXConnection i= | > nstead of Connection. I think namespaces are very useful. Something | like Ja= | > va packages or similar would be grate for me. | <br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Marian= | > o<br> | > <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM, | Travis Kay = | > <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a | > | href=3D"mailto:tlk@nb.sympatico.ca">tlk-F7KtY6MJiVI/4Up/o1S3Qw@public.gmane.org= | co.ca</a>></span> | > | > wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"b= | > order-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; | paddin= | > g-left: 1ex;"> | > <div class=3D"Ih2E3d">Bill Schwab wrote:<br> | > > Stef,<br> | > ><br> | > > Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; | I'll = | > speak for myself on that but suspect others would agree.<br> | > </div>I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree.<br> | > <br> | > Travis<br> | > <div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br> | > > Packages are of course extremely useful. Method | categories are a= | > lso quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be | assigned to = | > a given method. Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by | rules) = | > with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as part of | packages= | > ).<br> | > | > ><br> | > > I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of | it.<br> | > ><br> | > > Bill<br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.<br> | > > University of Florida<br> | > > Department of Anesthesiology<br> | > > PO Box 100254<br> | > > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254<br> | > ><br> | > > Email: <a | > href=3D"mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu">bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<= | /a><br> | > | > | > Tel: (352) 273-6785<br> | > > FAX: (352) 392-7029<br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > >>>> <a | > href=3D"mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr">stephane.duca= | sse@inria.fr</a> | > | > 2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>><br> | > >>>><br> | > > Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both | kind of= | > <br> | > > packages could coexist<br> | > > and we should probably revive it for 1.1<br> | > ><br> | > > Stef<br> | > > On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote:<br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David R=F6thlisberger | <squeak@= | > webcitas.ch<br> | > >><br> | > >>> wrote:<br> | > >>><br> | > >> So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class | entities, OB<br= | >> | > >> would be much faster<br> | > >> and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB models packages and | class<b= | > r> | > >> cats itself, has to<br> | > >> take the information from both the Monticello's working | copy<b= | > r> | > >> managers and the<br> | > >> SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what | can we d= | > o.<br> | > >> We should really invest in bringing real packages to | Pharo.<br> | > >><br> | > >><br> | > >> If you want "real" packages, I've implemented | them i= | > n Squeak:<br> | > >><br> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces" | target=3D"_blank">h= | > ttp://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces</a><br> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages" | target=3D"_blank">htt= | > p://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages</a><br> | > >><br> | > >> The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak | image = | > is<br> | > >> linked from here:<br> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak" | target=3D"_blank"= | >> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak</a><br> | > >><br> | > >> I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and | is rele= | > ased<br> | > >> under the MIT license if anybody else wants it.<br> | > >><br> | > >> Gulik.<br> | > >><br> | > >> --<br> | > >> <a | href=3D"http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg" targ= | > | et=3D"_blank">http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg</a><br> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/" | target=3D"_blank">http://guli= | > k.pbwiki.com/</a><br> | > >> _______________________________________________<br> | > >> Pharo-project mailing list<br> | > >> <a | > href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-proje= | ct@lists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br> | >> | > | > <a href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p= | > haro-project" | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailma= | > n/listinfo/pharo-project</a><br> | > >><br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > > _______________________________________________<br> | > > Pharo-project mailing list<br> | > > <a | > | href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@l= | ists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br> | > | > | > <a | href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo= | > -project" | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/li= | > stinfo/pharo-project</a><br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > > _______________________________________________<br> | > > Pharo-project mailing list<br> | > > <a | > | href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@l= | ists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br> | > | > | > <a | href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo= | > -project" | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/li= | > stinfo/pharo-project</a><br> | > </div></div>> | ----------------------------------------------------------= | > --------------<br> | > ><br> | > ><br> | > > No virus found in this incoming message.<br> | > > Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com" | target=3D"_blank">www.= | > avg.com</a><br> | > > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release | Date: 02/1= | > 0/09 07:20:00<br> | > <div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c">><br> | > ><br> | > <br> | > <br> | > _______________________________________________<br> | > Pharo-project mailing list<br> | > <a | > | href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@lists.= | gforge.inria.fr</a><br> | <a | > | > | href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-proj= | > ect" | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinf= | > o/pharo-project</a><br> | > </div></div></blockquote></div><br> | > | > | > | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Pharo-project mailing list | > Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | | | | | _______________________________________________ | Pharo-project mailing list | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | | _______________________________________________ | Pharo-project mailing list | Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Miguel Cobá http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
On Feb 18, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez wrote:
El jue, 18-02-2010 a las 12:18 -0800, Dale Henrichs escribió:
Gemstone uses an order list of dictionaries for global lookup. Each user can change the order of the list or insert their own dictionaries into the list ... makes for quite a bit of flexibility.... you can load code into a particular dictionary...and the global resolution is at compile time (you can do lookup at runtime if you wish).
The advantage is that the code itself has no namespace artifacts at all.
I'm mentioning this as a point of information more than a serious suggestion that Pharo adopt such an approach, though:)
Why not, if it has been proved for a long time in Gemstone, shouldn't be sensible to create something similar for Pharo? Or it uses some kind of proprietary technology from Gemstone?
You've heard the phrase, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"? It's true! We would be delighted to see Pharo use a similar scheme for namespaces. Not only is it is an elegant approach, but its adoption by Pharo would ease the upgrade path to GemStone should the opportunity arise. For an overview of GemStone namespaces, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z84n3O8YUsI. For more information see the Chapter 3 of the Programming Guide (http://seaside.gemstone.com/docs/GS64-ProgGuide-2.2.pdf). James Foster GemStone Systems, Inc.
My apologies if I have overlooked obvious sources which provide the answer to the question... Where is there documentation to be found describing the meaning of list entries in the Class Browser? I am poking around in the "Pharo1.0-10508-rc2dev10.01.2" image and am not coming up with answers. I've been able to guess at the meaning of some but others escape me. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony Anton 3800 243rd Place SE Phone: 425-313-1024 Issaquah, WA 98029 Cell: 425-444-3084 Concept Systems agantoniii@earthlink.net FAX: 425-313-1024
Correction (sorry for the confusion)... My apologies if I have overlooked obvious sources which provide the answer to the question... Where is there documentation to be found describing the meaning of list entry icons (on left side of lists) in the Class Browser? I am poking around in the "Pharo1.0-10508-rc2dev10.01.2" image and am not coming up with answers. I've been able to guess at the meaning of some but others escape me. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony Anton 3800 243rd Place SE Phone: 425-313-1024 Issaquah, WA 98029 Cell: 425-444-3084 Concept Systems agantoniii@earthlink.net FAX: 425-313-1024
Anthony, I'm not sure if I understood correctly your question, but I think a good start to search about the icons is http://scg.unibe.ch/research/hermion/icons HTH -- Cesar Rabak Em 19/02/2010 05:01, Anthony G. Anton III < agantoniii@earthlink.net > escreveu: Correction (sorry for the confusion)... My apologies if I have overlooked obvious sources which provide the answer to the question... Where is there documentation to be found describing the meaning of list entry icons (on left side of lists) in the Class Browser? I am poking around in the "Pharo1.0-10508-rc2dev10.01.2" image and am not coming up with answers. I've been able to guess at the meaning of some but others escape me. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony Anton 3800 243rd Place SE Phone: 425-313-1024 Issaquah, WA 98029 Cell: 425-444-3084 Concept Systems agantoniii@earthlink.net FAX: 425-313-1024 _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On Feb 18, 2010, at 11:02 PM, James Foster wrote:
Why not, if it has been proved for a long time in Gemstone, shouldn't be sensible to create something similar for Pharo? Or it uses some kind of proprietary technology from Gemstone?
You've heard the phrase, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"? It's true! We would be delighted to see Pharo use a similar scheme for namespaces. Not only is it is an elegant approach, but its adoption by Pharo would ease the upgrade path to GemStone should the opportunity arise.
For an overview of GemStone namespaces, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z84n3O8YUsI. For more information see the Chapter 3 of the Programming Guide (http://seaside.gemstone.com/docs/GS64-ProgGuide-2.2.pdf).
thanks! We will definitly have a look. (We want to have a *real* good abstractions for structuring large projects better...) Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
Dale Henrichs wrote:
Gemstone uses an order list of dictionaries for global lookup. Each user can change the order of the list or insert their own dictionaries into the list ... makes for quite a bit of flexibility.... you can load code into a particular dictionary...and the global resolution is at compile time (you can do lookup at runtime if you wish).
The order list of dictionaries reminds me a bit of PowerBuilder's list of "pbl" libraries. Is that GemStone Programming Guide pdf you linked to still the latest, it says April 2007? -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Re-Spam-Re-Real-packages-tp1310658p1561328.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (12)
-
Anthony G. Anton III -
Bill Schwab -
csrabak＠bol.com.br -
Dale Henrichs -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Geert Claes -
James Foster -
Marcus Denker -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez -
Schwab,Wilhelm K
-
Travis Kay