[Pharo-project] serializing a class
Hi I would like to do a little experiment. I need to save a class (not the instances) in a binary format and I was wondering if somebody got experience with that. Stef
Stef, Dolphin's solution is to use proxies. Rather than serializing the class itself, one might prefer to serialize a proxy that knows enough to find the appropriate object once it "wakes up" in the new image. In the case of a class, it should be enough to know the name, so the proxy would have that one aspect and it would resolve itself by looking for it in the system dictionary. There is a little more to it, but that is the basic idea. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 3:03 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Development Subject: [Pharo-project] serializing a class Hi I would like to do a little experiment. I need to save a class (not the instances) in a binary format and I was wondering if somebody got experience with that. Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>wrote:
Stef,
Dolphin's solution is to use proxies. Rather than serializing the class itself, one might prefer to serialize a proxy that knows enough to find the appropriate object once it "wakes up" in the new image. In the case of a class, it should be enough to know the name, so the proxy would have that one aspect and it would resolve itself by looking for it in the system dictionary. There is a little more to it, but that is the basic idea.
ReferenceStream does the same, and te proxy is called DiskProxy. This may work sometimes, but others, it doesn't. For example, in my case, I need to REALLY serialize a class, becase I need to load it in another image where such class is not even present. cheers Mariano
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 3:03 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Development Subject: [Pharo-project] serializing a class
Hi
I would like to do a little experiment. I need to save a class (not the instances) in a binary format and I was wondering if somebody got experience with that.
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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You might do some searches on Dolphin's binary packages; I tried them once and that was about it, but there might be some useful reading on them?? For your problem, my thoughts would be either a fileout or .mcz followed by SIXX for the data. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck [marianopeck@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 5:25 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] serializing a class On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Stef, Dolphin's solution is to use proxies. Rather than serializing the class itself, one might prefer to serialize a proxy that knows enough to find the appropriate object once it "wakes up" in the new image. In the case of a class, it should be enough to know the name, so the proxy would have that one aspect and it would resolve itself by looking for it in the system dictionary. There is a little more to it, but that is the basic idea. ReferenceStream does the same, and te proxy is called DiskProxy. This may work sometimes, but others, it doesn't. For example, in my case, I need to REALLY serialize a class, becase I need to load it in another image where such class is not even present. cheers Mariano Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 3:03 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Development Subject: [Pharo-project] serializing a class Hi I would like to do a little experiment. I need to save a class (not the instances) in a binary format and I was wondering if somebody got experience with that. Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr
wrote:
Hi
I would like to do a little experiment. I need to save a class (not the instances) in a binary format and I was wondering if somebody got experience with that.
Stef, why you need it in a binary format? I mean, why a simple file out is not adecuated ? or SmartRefStream, or to xml.. Cheers Mariano
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
2010/4/1 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com>:
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Hi
I would like to do a little experiment. I need to save a class (not the instances) in a binary format and I was wondering if somebody got experience with that.
Stef, why you need it in a binary format? I mean, why a simple file out is not adecuated ? or SmartRefStream, or to xml..
Monticello provides various serialization methods for classes: a binary one based on reference streams, and one based on the file-out mechanism. Monticello 2 uses a custom (binary) serializer for classes. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 11:36 PM, Lukas Renggli <renggli@gmail.com> wrote:
2010/4/1 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck@gmail.com>:
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Hi
I would like to do a little experiment. I need to save a class (not the instances) in a binary format and I was wondering if somebody got experience with that.
Stef, why you need it in a binary format? I mean, why a simple file out
is
not adecuated ? or SmartRefStream, or to xml..
Monticello provides various serialization methods for classes: a binary one based on reference streams, and one based on the file-out mechanism.
Monticello 2 uses a custom (binary) serializer for classes.
Lukas/Colin can you point me to this in the code? classes/methods that does that? Thanks! Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
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Because I want to play with the idea of bootstrapping a smalltalk and I would like to have a socket and a raw sequence of numbers... No compiler no.... just a reader of stuff (but of course for that you need already a lot) Stef
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote: Hi
I would like to do a little experiment. I need to save a class (not the instances) in a binary format and I was wondering if somebody got experience with that.
Stef, why you need it in a binary format? I mean, why a simple file out is not adecuated ? or SmartRefStream, or to xml..
Cheers
Mariano
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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On 4/2/2010 5:12 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Because I want to play with the idea of bootstrapping a smalltalk and I would like to have a socket and a raw sequence of numbers... No compiler no.... just a reader of stuff (but of course for that you need already a lot)
Craig has done quite a bit of work regarding code loading I would assume. For bare bones (binary) loading of compiled code and classes you actually shouldn't need much infrastructure, but a lot of thought beforehand (representing and binding symbols, encoding the literal frame etc) :-) Michael
On Apr 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Michael Rueger wrote:
On 4/2/2010 5:12 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Because I want to play with the idea of bootstrapping a smalltalk and I would like to have a socket and a raw sequence of numbers... No compiler no.... just a reader of stuff (but of course for that you need already a lot)
Craig has done quite a bit of work regarding code loading I would assume.
yes but somebody has to do archeology there.
For bare bones (binary) loading of compiled code and classes you actually shouldn't need much infrastructure, but a lot of thought beforehand (representing and binding symbols, encoding the literal frame etc) :-)
Yes this is what I'm trying to learn so that I know what I ask when i will ask some guys to do it :)
Michael
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Hi-- Hm, I missed this thread before, sorry about that. (This thread started in April last year. I started reading this list in October, and had to just scan a lot of subject lines when catching up, during my move to Europe.) (Conversation between Stéphane and Michael:)
...I want to play with the idea of bootstrapping a smalltalk and I would like to have a socket and a raw sequence of numbers... No compiler no.... just a reader of stuff (but of course for that you need already a lot)
Craig has done quite a bit of work regarding code loading I would assume.
Yes!
yes, but somebody has to do archeology there.
I can help. :) I'm actively working on this. My apologies if there was a problem reaching the Spoon bits at the time; hosting providers have come and gone occasionally. The current release is meant to be constantly available at [1]. For announcements, please check out my blog, thisContext[2]. For deeper discussion, please join the mailing list[3] and chat with us on the IRC channel[4]. Also, please do feel free to contact me via the info at the bottom of this message.
For bare bones (binary) loading of compiled code and classes you actually shouldn't need much infrastructure, but a lot of thought beforehand (representing and binding symbols, encoding the literal frame etc) :-)
Yes this is what I'm trying to learn so that I know what I ask when i will ask some guys to do it :)
If you haven't seen it before, please check out the implementation summary for Naiad, Spoon's module system[5]. It discusses infrastructure for direct transfer of classes and compiled methods between live systems. Please let me know if you have any questions, I'm happy and eager to discuss. I read the Pharo, squeak-dev, vm-dev, and Spoon lists. thanks again, -C [1] http://netjam.org/spoon/releases/current [2] http://thiscontext.wordpress.com [3] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spoon [4] irc://freenode.net/#spoon [5] http://netjam.org/spoon/naiad -- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 06 2757 7177 + 1 415 287 3547
On Apr 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Michael Rueger wrote:
On 4/2/2010 5:12 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Because I want to play with the idea of bootstrapping a smalltalk and I would like to have a socket and a raw sequence of numbers... No compiler no.... just a reader of stuff (but of course for that you need already a lot)
Craig has done quite a bit of work regarding code loading I would assume.
looking for spoon.2a12.macosx.dmg
For bare bones (binary) loading of compiled code and classes you actually shouldn't need much infrastructure, but a lot of thought beforehand (representing and binding symbols, encoding the literal frame etc) :-) you would save part of the stack?
Stef
Something like this? http://www.smalltalking.net/Papers/stGen/stGenE.htm http://alereimondo.no-ip.org/ImageGestation Hernán 2010/4/2 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>:
Because I want to play with the idea of bootstrapping a smalltalk and I would like to have a socket and a raw sequence of numbers... No compiler no.... just a reader of stuff (but of course for that you need already a lot)
Stef
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote: Hi
I would like to do a little experiment. I need to save a class (not the instances) in a binary format and I was wondering if somebody got experience with that.
Stef, why you need it in a binary format? I mean, why a simple file out is  not adecuated ? or SmartRefStream, or to xml..
Cheers
Mariano
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
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On 1 April 2010 23:02, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Hi
I would like to do a little experiment. I need to save a class (not the instances) in a binary format and I was wondering if somebody got experience with that.
I'd rather change the 'class' to an 'object' in your question. Mainly, the problem is to file-out an object-memory subgraph, with predefined stub points, and then load it into another object memory and reconnect these stubs.
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
Sig, SIXX will do what you describe, but I respectfully submit that you are missing the point - worse, you appear to be going out of your way to obfuscate it: there are indeed objects (classes are among them) that require specialized serialization. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 4:36 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] serializing a class On 1 April 2010 23:02, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Hi
I would like to do a little experiment. I need to save a class (not the instances) in a binary format and I was wondering if somebody got experience with that.
I'd rather change the 'class' to an 'object' in your question. Mainly, the problem is to file-out an object-memory subgraph, with predefined stub points, and then load it into another object memory and reconnect these stubs.
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On 2 April 2010 01:26, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:
Sig,
SIXX will do what you describe, but I respectfully submit that you are missing the point - worse, you appear to be going out of your way to obfuscate it: there are indeed objects (classes are among them) that require specialized serialization.
sorry, can't parse it. What you mean by obfuscating the point what i missing? I never said that classes doesn't require special handling. What i tried to point out, that being able to serialize any object in right way will make it much easier to deal with classes.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 4:36 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] serializing a class
On 1 April 2010 23:02, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
Hi
I would like to do a little experiment. I need to save a class (not the instances) in a binary format and I was wondering if somebody got experience with that.
I'd rather change the 'class' to an 'object' in your question. Mainly, the problem is to file-out an object-memory subgraph, with predefined stub points, and then load it into another object memory and reconnect these stubs.
Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
participants (8)
-
Craig Latta -
Hernán Morales Durand -
Igor Stasenko -
Lukas Renggli -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Michael Rueger -
Schwab,Wilhelm K -
Stéphane Ducasse