Loading scripts vs. configs with #stable and config browser (was: [ann] snapshotcello)
Tudor wrote:
You can get the code at: Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'girba' project: 'Snapshotcello'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSnapshotcello'; load. (Smalltalk globals at: #ConfigurationOfSnapshotcello) loadDevelopment
Sorry about the rant in advance (which is more general and not only specific to snapshotcello), but: Next time someone wants this (or another) nice little Pharo tool: - one has to remember this load script or have to find the announcement mail again - one has to a lot of typing the expression or copying to a workspace to load it. Just with the posted load script he does dont know if Pharo 1.4, 2.0 or 3.0 was used to develop it, so how does he know the Pharo version to use it without failures? A pharo version where it is not broken. Maybe the user is still using Pharo 2.0 but maybe the tool requires at least Pharo 3.0 ... What about a new user who starts tomorrow with Pharo and never read this announcement. Since he entered the mailinglist very late he missed the mail with the script. How can he now about this super cool package? Why cant it be more accessible? I propose: PLEASE define a #stable for the working versions and place an additional copy in: - "ss3.gemtalksystems.com/ss/MetaRepoForPharo20" (Pharo 2.0) or - "http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/MetaRepoForPharo30/main" (Pharo 3.0) when you know it runs in the according pharo version. It will then appear in the config browser. If it is not in the config browser of the current pharo version for easy loading then it does not really exist. ;) It only exists for the people who read about it in the mailinglist. Think of a first time user who downloads Pharo 2.0. He may never stumble over the load script or the tool in Smalltalkhub. I know: it may not yet be the best mechanism to provide packages to users (we need more infos on the configs, hence catalog and automatic verification in the future) - but still it is better than the "load scripts" and possible confusion. So please CARE ABOUT YOUR USERS and make your packages available like this so it can be easily accessible and loadable right from the according image! Same for Roassal, Moose, ... and all the nice packages that now appear in the Pharo universe... Thanks T.
Hi Torsten, I'd be inclined to agree with you, except that : the configuration browser is too limited by only allowing a stable version which often does not fit with the need and the development process. More often than not, the configuration is in the right repository, but, you still have to find it (how many configurations are in the 20 meta repository) and write a script because in fact you need version 3.4.1, or you need the -dev group, or you need the development version because, yes, this is to try a new thing out. But +1 to have an idea on which pharo version it works :) Thierry Le 24/07/2013 10:04, Torsten Bergmann a écrit :
Tudor wrote:
You can get the code at: Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'girba' project: 'Snapshotcello'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSnapshotcello'; load. (Smalltalk globals at: #ConfigurationOfSnapshotcello) loadDevelopment
Sorry about the rant in advance (which is more general and not only specific to snapshotcello), but:
Next time someone wants this (or another) nice little Pharo tool:
- one has to remember this load script or have to find the announcement mail again - one has to a lot of typing the expression or copying to a workspace to load it.
Just with the posted load script he does dont know if Pharo 1.4, 2.0 or 3.0 was used to develop it, so how does he know the Pharo version to use it without failures? A pharo version where it is not broken. Maybe the user is still using Pharo 2.0 but maybe the tool requires at least Pharo 3.0 ...
What about a new user who starts tomorrow with Pharo and never read this announcement. Since he entered the mailinglist very late he missed the mail with the script. How can he now about this super cool package? Why cant it be more accessible?
I propose: PLEASE define a #stable for the working versions and place an additional copy in:
- "ss3.gemtalksystems.com/ss/MetaRepoForPharo20" (Pharo 2.0) or - "http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/MetaRepoForPharo30/main" (Pharo 3.0)
when you know it runs in the according pharo version. It will then appear in the config browser.
If it is not in the config browser of the current pharo version for easy loading then it does not really exist. ;) It only exists for the people who read about it in the mailinglist. Think of a first time user who downloads Pharo 2.0. He may never stumble over the load script or the tool in Smalltalkhub.
I know: it may not yet be the best mechanism to provide packages to users (we need more infos on the configs, hence catalog and automatic verification in the future) - but still it is better than the "load scripts" and possible confusion.
So please CARE ABOUT YOUR USERS and make your packages available like this so it can be easily accessible and loadable right from the according image!
Same for Roassal, Moose, ... and all the nice packages that now appear in the Pharo universe...
Thanks T.
-- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95
Hi Torsten, Thanks for the rant :) It did not put it as a release yet, because I still wanted people to play with it. Hence the suggested "loadDevelopment". As for Moose not being in the configuration browser, it is precisely because we could not really release it until now in a reliable fashion that you do not find it there :). Snapshotcello is a little tool to help us bootstrap precisely around this problem. Cheers, Doru On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:
Tudor wrote:
You can get the code at: Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'girba' project: 'Snapshotcello'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSnapshotcello'; load. (Smalltalk globals at: #ConfigurationOfSnapshotcello) loadDevelopment
Sorry about the rant in advance (which is more general and not only specific to snapshotcello), but:
Next time someone wants this (or another) nice little Pharo tool:
- one has to remember this load script or have to find the announcement mail again - one has to a lot of typing the expression or copying to a workspace to load it.
Just with the posted load script he does dont know if Pharo 1.4, 2.0 or 3.0 was used to develop it, so how does he know the Pharo version to use it without failures? A pharo version where it is not broken. Maybe the user is still using Pharo 2.0 but maybe the tool requires at least Pharo 3.0 ...
What about a new user who starts tomorrow with Pharo and never read this announcement. Since he entered the mailinglist very late he missed the mail with the script. How can he now about this super cool package? Why cant it be more accessible?
I propose: PLEASE define a #stable for the working versions and place an additional copy in:
- "ss3.gemtalksystems.com/ss/MetaRepoForPharo20" (Pharo 2.0) or - "http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/MetaRepoForPharo30/main" (Pharo 3.0)
when you know it runs in the according pharo version. It will then appear in the config browser.
If it is not in the config browser of the current pharo version for easy loading then it does not really exist. ;) It only exists for the people who read about it in the mailinglist. Think of a first time user who downloads Pharo 2.0. He may never stumble over the load script or the tool in Smalltalkhub.
I know: it may not yet be the best mechanism to provide packages to users (we need more infos on the configs, hence catalog and automatic verification in the future) - but still it is better than the "load scripts" and possible confusion.
So please CARE ABOUT YOUR USERS and make your packages available like this so it can be easily accessible and loadable right from the according image!
Same for Roassal, Moose, ... and all the nice packages that now appear in the Pharo universe...
Thanks T.
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
Snapshotcello is now in ss3.gemtalksystems.com/ss/MetaRepoForPharo20. Once it will be tested in Pharo 3.0, it will be published in there, too. Doru On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:
Hi Torsten,
Thanks for the rant :)
It did not put it as a release yet, because I still wanted people to play with it. Hence the suggested "loadDevelopment".
As for Moose not being in the configuration browser, it is precisely because we could not really release it until now in a reliable fashion that you do not find it there :). Snapshotcello is a little tool to help us bootstrap precisely around this problem.
Cheers, Doru
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:
Tudor wrote:
You can get the code at: Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'girba' project: 'Snapshotcello'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSnapshotcello'; load. (Smalltalk globals at: #ConfigurationOfSnapshotcello) loadDevelopment
Sorry about the rant in advance (which is more general and not only specific to snapshotcello), but:
Next time someone wants this (or another) nice little Pharo tool:
- one has to remember this load script or have to find the announcement mail again - one has to a lot of typing the expression or copying to a workspace to load it.
Just with the posted load script he does dont know if Pharo 1.4, 2.0 or 3.0 was used to develop it, so how does he know the Pharo version to use it without failures? A pharo version where it is not broken. Maybe the user is still using Pharo 2.0 but maybe the tool requires at least Pharo 3.0 ...
What about a new user who starts tomorrow with Pharo and never read this announcement. Since he entered the mailinglist very late he missed the mail with the script. How can he now about this super cool package? Why cant it be more accessible?
I propose: PLEASE define a #stable for the working versions and place an additional copy in:
- "ss3.gemtalksystems.com/ss/MetaRepoForPharo20" (Pharo 2.0) or - "http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/MetaRepoForPharo30/main" (Pharo 3.0)
when you know it runs in the according pharo version. It will then appear in the config browser.
If it is not in the config browser of the current pharo version for easy loading then it does not really exist. ;) It only exists for the people who read about it in the mailinglist. Think of a first time user who downloads Pharo 2.0. He may never stumble over the load script or the tool in Smalltalkhub.
I know: it may not yet be the best mechanism to provide packages to users (we need more infos on the configs, hence catalog and automatic verification in the future) - but still it is better than the "load scripts" and possible confusion.
So please CARE ABOUT YOUR USERS and make your packages available like this so it can be easily accessible and loadable right from the according image!
Same for Roassal, Moose, ... and all the nice packages that now appear in the Pharo universe...
Thanks T.
-- www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
-- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
+ 1 :) This is why I'm working on the PackageCatalog :) here is an example Stef On Jul 24, 2013, at 10:04 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares@gmx.de> wrote:
Tudor wrote:
You can get the code at: Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'girba' project: 'Snapshotcello'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSnapshotcello'; load. (Smalltalk globals at: #ConfigurationOfSnapshotcello) loadDevelopment
Sorry about the rant in advance (which is more general and not only specific to snapshotcello), but:
Next time someone wants this (or another) nice little Pharo tool:
- one has to remember this load script or have to find the announcement mail again - one has to a lot of typing the expression or copying to a workspace to load it.
Just with the posted load script he does dont know if Pharo 1.4, 2.0 or 3.0 was used to develop it, so how does he know the Pharo version to use it without failures? A pharo version where it is not broken. Maybe the user is still using Pharo 2.0 but maybe the tool requires at least Pharo 3.0 ...
What about a new user who starts tomorrow with Pharo and never read this announcement. Since he entered the mailinglist very late he missed the mail with the script. How can he now about this super cool package? Why cant it be more accessible?
I propose: PLEASE define a #stable for the working versions and place an additional copy in:
- "ss3.gemtalksystems.com/ss/MetaRepoForPharo20" (Pharo 2.0) or - "http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/MetaRepoForPharo30/main" (Pharo 3.0)
when you know it runs in the according pharo version. It will then appear in the config browser.
If it is not in the config browser of the current pharo version for easy loading then it does not really exist. ;) It only exists for the people who read about it in the mailinglist. Think of a first time user who downloads Pharo 2.0. He may never stumble over the load script or the tool in Smalltalkhub.
I know: it may not yet be the best mechanism to provide packages to users (we need more infos on the configs, hence catalog and automatic verification in the future) - but still it is better than the "load scripts" and possible confusion.
So please CARE ABOUT YOUR USERS and make your packages available like this so it can be easily accessible and loadable right from the according image!
Same for Roassal, Moose, ... and all the nice packages that now appear in the Pharo universe...
Thanks T.
Stéphane Ducasse wrote
+ 1 :) This is why I'm working on the PackageCatalog :)
+1 and... cool! PackageCatalog is very needed... where is the code hosted? ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-Loading-scripts-vs-configs-with-stable-and-c... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Jul 24, 2013, at 8:08 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
Stéphane Ducasse wrote
+ 1 :) This is why I'm working on the PackageCatalog :)
+1 and... cool! PackageCatalog is very needed... where is the code hosted?
In DamienCassou Gutemberg Yes we should move it somewhere else so that other people can contribute. If you want damien can add you to the project for now.
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-Loading-scripts-vs-configs-with-stable-and-c... Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (5)
-
Goubier Thierry -
Sean P. DeNigris -
Stéphane Ducasse -
Torsten Bergmann -
Tudor Girba