[Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all, I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it. Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired. I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come. Bill
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly. Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved. There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results. Sleep calls... Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP Hello all, I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it. Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired. I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come. Bill
More: proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager. ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly. Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved. There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results. Sleep calls... Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP Hello all, I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it. Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired. I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come. Bill
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter. Stef On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
Stef, Oops - read in the wrong order (I just asked what spec might be based on a different message from you). It seems clear from the current context that it is something I should indeed review. Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter. Stef On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
Stef, I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz<http://www.squeaksource.com/DirtyExperiments/Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz> into 1.3, but got an error and backed off. Any ideas? Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter. Stef On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages) Keep me in touch, Ben On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off.
Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec
Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter.
Stef
On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
Ben, Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec? Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages) Keep me in touch, Ben On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: Stef, I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz<http://www.squeaksource.com/DirtyExperiments/Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz> into 1.3, but got an error and backed off. Any ideas? Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter. Stef On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :) Ben On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages)
Keep me in touch,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off.
Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec
Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter.
Stef
On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
Ben, Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas? Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec<http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec> :) Ben On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: Ben, Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec? Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages) Keep me in touch, Ben On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: Stef, I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz<http://www.squeaksource.com/DirtyExperiments/Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz> into 1.3, but got an error and backed off. Any ideas? Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter. Stef On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
bill thanks for the catch. I updated the document. Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; load ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable Stef On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :)
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages)
Keep me in touch,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off.
Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec
Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter.
Stef
On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
Stef, Thanks for the code! #stable does some things on 1.4, but I still got nowhere with 1.3. The big thing keeping me off of 1.4 is shout in the browsers - I *really* like syntax highlighting. In fairness, I have not looked at 1.4 in a week or so, so maybe that's been fixed. However, I can certainly run it to play around with spec. Even on 1.4, I got a DNU over groups; this time I had to add the noop to OB, which is apparently the default in 1.4?? More fiddling to come. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP bill thanks for the catch. I updated the document. Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; load ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable Stef On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :)
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages)
Keep me in touch,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off.
Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec
Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter.
Stef
On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
spec is not made to work on 1.3 Stef On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
Thanks for the code! #stable does some things on 1.4, but I still got nowhere with 1.3. The big thing keeping me off of 1.4 is shout in the browsers - I *really* like syntax highlighting. In fairness, I have not looked at 1.4 in a week or so, so maybe that's been fixed. However, I can certainly run it to play around with spec.
Even on 1.4, I got a DNU over groups; this time I had to add the noop to OB, which is apparently the default in 1.4??
More fiddling to come.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
bill
thanks for the catch. I updated the document.
Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; load
ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :)
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages)
Keep me in touch,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off.
Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec
Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter.
Stef
On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
The problem is that we improved a lot he morphic layout in 1.4, and Spec is based on that. So most probably it doesn't work in 1.3 (and I didn't put effort in this direction, and will probably not) Try Nautilus instead of OB ^^ Again, we improved the system, but we are not maintaining OB, so it could be not up to date. Have fun with Spec, Ben On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
spec is not made to work on 1.3
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
Thanks for the code! #stable does some things on 1.4, but I still got nowhere with 1.3. The big thing keeping me off of 1.4 is shout in the browsers - I *really* like syntax highlighting. In fairness, I have not looked at 1.4 in a week or so, so maybe that's been fixed. However, I can certainly run it to play around with spec.
Even on 1.4, I got a DNU over groups; this time I had to add the noop to OB, which is apparently the default in 1.4??
More fiddling to come.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
bill
thanks for the catch. I updated the document.
Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; load
ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :)
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages)
Keep me in touch,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off.
Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec
Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter.
Stef
On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
Hi Benjamin, Are you thinking about applying with Nautilus on this Google Summer of Code? I think your work is to be supported more, and applying to the GSoC stipendium is a nice opportunity, not to be missed :) Best regards Janko Dne 05. 03. 2012 17:46, piše Benjamin:
The problem is that we improved a lot he morphic layout in 1.4, and Spec is based on that. So most probably it doesn't work in 1.3 (and I didn't put effort in this direction, and will probably not)
Try Nautilus instead of OB ^^ Again, we improved the system, but we are not maintaining OB, so it could be not up to date.
Have fun with Spec,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
spec is not made to work on 1.3
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
Thanks for the code! #stable does some things on 1.4, but I still got nowhere with 1.3. The big thing keeping me off of 1.4 is shout in the browsers - I *really* like syntax highlighting. In fairness, I have not looked at 1.4 in a week or so, so maybe that's been fixed. However, I can certainly run it to play around with spec.
Even on 1.4, I got a DNU over groups; this time I had to add the noop to OB, which is apparently the default in 1.4??
More fiddling to come.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
bill
thanks for the catch. I updated the document.
Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; load
ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :)
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages)
Keep me in touch,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off.
Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec
Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter.
Stef
On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
-- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Why not :) The thing is I do not know which steps have to be done to apply so :) Ben On Mar 5, 2012, at 5:54 PM, Janko Mivšek wrote:
Hi Benjamin,
Are you thinking about applying with Nautilus on this Google Summer of Code? I think your work is to be supported more, and applying to the GSoC stipendium is a nice opportunity, not to be missed :)
Best regards Janko
Dne 05. 03. 2012 17:46, piše Benjamin:
The problem is that we improved a lot he morphic layout in 1.4, and Spec is based on that. So most probably it doesn't work in 1.3 (and I didn't put effort in this direction, and will probably not)
Try Nautilus instead of OB ^^ Again, we improved the system, but we are not maintaining OB, so it could be not up to date.
Have fun with Spec,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
spec is not made to work on 1.3
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
Thanks for the code! #stable does some things on 1.4, but I still got nowhere with 1.3. The big thing keeping me off of 1.4 is shout in the browsers - I *really* like syntax highlighting. In fairness, I have not looked at 1.4 in a week or so, so maybe that's been fixed. However, I can certainly run it to play around with spec.
Even on 1.4, I got a DNU over groups; this time I had to add the noop to OB, which is apparently the default in 1.4??
More fiddling to come.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
bill
thanks for the catch. I updated the document.
Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; load
ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :)
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages)
Keep me in touch,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off.
Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec
Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter.
Stef
On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
-- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Dne 05. 03. 2012 18:00, piše Benjamin:
Why not :)
The thing is I do not know which steps have to be done to apply so :)
For start just describe here answering these questions: Project name Level (Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced) Description Technical Details Benefits to the Student Benefits to the Community Those are just ideas for now, but we need to be as detailed already. Later we can choose the mentor, second mentor etc. Best regards Janko
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 5:54 PM, Janko Mivšek wrote:
Hi Benjamin,
Are you thinking about applying with Nautilus on this Google Summer of Code? I think your work is to be supported more, and applying to the GSoC stipendium is a nice opportunity, not to be missed :)
Best regards Janko
Dne 05. 03. 2012 17:46, piše Benjamin:
The problem is that we improved a lot he morphic layout in 1.4, and Spec is based on that. So most probably it doesn't work in 1.3 (and I didn't put effort in this direction, and will probably not)
Try Nautilus instead of OB ^^ Again, we improved the system, but we are not maintaining OB, so it could be not up to date.
Have fun with Spec,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
spec is not made to work on 1.3
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
Thanks for the code! #stable does some things on 1.4, but I still got nowhere with 1.3. The big thing keeping me off of 1.4 is shout in the browsers - I *really* like syntax highlighting. In fairness, I have not looked at 1.4 in a week or so, so maybe that's been fixed. However, I can certainly run it to play around with spec.
Even on 1.4, I got a DNU over groups; this time I had to add the noop to OB, which is apparently the default in 1.4??
More fiddling to come.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
bill
thanks for the catch. I updated the document.
Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; load
ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :)
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages)
Keep me in touch,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off.
Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec
Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter.
Stef
On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
-- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
-- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
Yes good idea :) Stef On Mar 5, 2012, at 5:54 PM, Janko Mivšek wrote:
Hi Benjamin,
Are you thinking about applying with Nautilus on this Google Summer of Code? I think your work is to be supported more, and applying to the GSoC stipendium is a nice opportunity, not to be missed :)
Best regards Janko
Dne 05. 03. 2012 17:46, piše Benjamin:
The problem is that we improved a lot he morphic layout in 1.4, and Spec is based on that. So most probably it doesn't work in 1.3 (and I didn't put effort in this direction, and will probably not)
Try Nautilus instead of OB ^^ Again, we improved the system, but we are not maintaining OB, so it could be not up to date.
Have fun with Spec,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
spec is not made to work on 1.3
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
Thanks for the code! #stable does some things on 1.4, but I still got nowhere with 1.3. The big thing keeping me off of 1.4 is shout in the browsers - I *really* like syntax highlighting. In fairness, I have not looked at 1.4 in a week or so, so maybe that's been fixed. However, I can certainly run it to play around with spec.
Even on 1.4, I got a DNU over groups; this time I had to add the noop to OB, which is apparently the default in 1.4??
More fiddling to come.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
bill
thanks for the catch. I updated the document.
Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; load
ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :)
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages)
Keep me in touch,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off.
Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec
Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter.
Stef
On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
-- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si
I can use 1.4 to look at the code. Once shout works in the browsers, I might make the switch anyway. ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 11:46 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP The problem is that we improved a lot he morphic layout in 1.4, and Spec is based on that. So most probably it doesn't work in 1.3 (and I didn't put effort in this direction, and will probably not) Try Nautilus instead of OB ^^ Again, we improved the system, but we are not maintaining OB, so it could be not up to date. Have fun with Spec, Ben On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
spec is not made to work on 1.3
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
Thanks for the code! #stable does some things on 1.4, but I still got nowhere with 1.3. The big thing keeping me off of 1.4 is shout in the browsers - I *really* like syntax highlighting. In fairness, I have not looked at 1.4 in a week or so, so maybe that's been fixed. However, I can certainly run it to play around with spec.
Even on 1.4, I got a DNU over groups; this time I had to add the noop to OB, which is apparently the default in 1.4??
More fiddling to come.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
bill
thanks for the catch. I updated the document.
Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; load
ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :)
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages)
Keep me in touch,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off.
Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec
Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter.
Stef
On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
Shout works in 1.4 ... Ben On Mar 5, 2012, at 6:44 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
I can use 1.4 to look at the code. Once shout works in the browsers, I might make the switch anyway.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 11:46 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
The problem is that we improved a lot he morphic layout in 1.4, and Spec is based on that. So most probably it doesn't work in 1.3 (and I didn't put effort in this direction, and will probably not)
Try Nautilus instead of OB ^^ Again, we improved the system, but we are not maintaining OB, so it could be not up to date.
Have fun with Spec,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
spec is not made to work on 1.3
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
Thanks for the code! #stable does some things on 1.4, but I still got nowhere with 1.3. The big thing keeping me off of 1.4 is shout in the browsers - I *really* like syntax highlighting. In fairness, I have not looked at 1.4 in a week or so, so maybe that's been fixed. However, I can certainly run it to play around with spec.
Even on 1.4, I got a DNU over groups; this time I had to add the noop to OB, which is apparently the default in 1.4??
More fiddling to come.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
bill
thanks for the catch. I updated the document.
Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; load
ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :)
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages)
Keep me in touch,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off.
Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec
Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter.
Stef
On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
At least in the 1.4 seaside image, I do not get color highlighting the browser - debugger and workspaces do show coloring. I just grabbed the latest seaside image to verify. ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 12:47 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP Shout works in 1.4 ... Ben On Mar 5, 2012, at 6:44 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
I can use 1.4 to look at the code. Once shout works in the browsers, I might make the switch anyway.
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 11:46 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
The problem is that we improved a lot he morphic layout in 1.4, and Spec is based on that. So most probably it doesn't work in 1.3 (and I didn't put effort in this direction, and will probably not)
Try Nautilus instead of OB ^^ Again, we improved the system, but we are not maintaining OB, so it could be not up to date.
Have fun with Spec,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
spec is not made to work on 1.3
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
Thanks for the code! #stable does some things on 1.4, but I still got nowhere with 1.3. The big thing keeping me off of 1.4 is shout in the browsers - I *really* like syntax highlighting. In fairness, I have not looked at 1.4 in a week or so, so maybe that's been fixed. However, I can certainly run it to play around with spec.
Even on 1.4, I got a DNU over groups; this time I had to add the noop to OB, which is apparently the default in 1.4??
More fiddling to come.
Bill
________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
bill
thanks for the catch. I updated the document.
Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; load
ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable
Stef
On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :)
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Ben,
Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages)
Keep me in touch,
Ben
On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off.
Any ideas?
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse@inria.fr] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at Spec
Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter.
Stef
On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
More:
proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager.
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come.
Bill
Bill, since you working on it, please consider following. Models & widgets: - all widgets which require a model/state, should require a specific protocol for communicating with them. - a "real" model object may not support given protocol directly, and for adapting it, there should be a model/value adaptors.
From design point of view, it means that widget implementation should be free of things like we see in PluggableXYZMorph, which turned into a storage of bunch of selectors and code into spahetti of UI logic and model logic. All widgets should just send messages to model in a form: model doSomething or model askSomething but not: model perform: myOnClickBigButtonSelector
If there is not possible to connect widget and model directly, we should provide a model wrappers, which then could carry those numerous 'myOnClickBigButtonSelector' or block closures, connectors, whatever. Like that, a widget designer can clearly tell , what he wants from widget's model, what inputs his widget expects and rest is not of his concern. No any onClickSelector ifNil: [ yadda yadda ] ifNotNil: [ (model undestands: onClickSelector ) ifTrue: [ model perform: onClickSelector ] ].... this should be replaced by appropriate model adaptors, value holders etc , so widget may keep own code clean. We had discussions before, like why don't use blocks instead of selectors. And the answer was that it is easier to find implementors/navigate connections with symbols than blocks.. Which is true. Unless model(s) could have a built-in support for navigating and finding real guy behind the scenes, who responsible for taking actions etc. And i think this is much more appropriate than manually traverse through the hashes of selectors from a button nested into multiple levels of widgets, and models connected /nested in hierarchy too.. About layouts and layouts managers. It's kind of fine to have proportional layouts, but it doesn't solves all needs. Sometimes we want to "put it here" and "i don't give a shit about layouts". I dealt with nested layout since Delphi, and while they serve well most of the times, sometimes it is very hard to convince designed that his design is not really fits into out technical world, simply because you cannout "put it here" and designer "don't give a shit about layouts". :) So, people invented workarounds, like in modern browsers we have absolute/fixed/relative positioning and z-levels aka layers. Another approach is to control layout via anchors. I did some experiments with it not long ago, and i think it is quite promising, except that more thought needed how to organically merge this with traditional layouts. Anyways, here the link to original discussion: http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2011-April/046473.html (and somewhere there must be the code) On 5 February 2012 04:25, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:
I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly.
Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved.
There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results.
Sleep calls...
Bill
________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab@anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP
Hello all,
I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP.  I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it.
Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box."Â Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired.
I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable.  More to come.
Bill
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
participants (5)
-
Benjamin -
Igor Stasenko -
Janko Mivšek -
Schwab,Wilhelm K -
Stéphane Ducasse