Le 23/10/2014 21:49, Tudor Girba a écrit :

This is amazing. If we add to it that we will be able to have significantly larger images ... dreaming ... :)

Hey, but some time you also need smaller one ;-) -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

Le 24/10/2014 14:02, stepharo a écrit :

On 24/10/14 10:31, Hilaire wrote:

...

Le 23/10/2014 21:49, Tudor Girba a écrit :

...

This is amazing. If we add to it that we will be able to have significantly larger images ... dreaming ... :)

Hey, but some time you also need smaller one ;-) Guille got a 11k image :) so we are getting there too :)

Fantastic ! For now I stopped the DrGeo maintenance on tablet for multiple reasons. One of the reason was the growing image of Pharo 3 and the difficulty to shrink it. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

On 24.10.2014, at 15:06, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

very nice

so any more information to this, how exactly this optimization works and which kind of data will benefit from this ?

Clément’s byte code set talk at ESUG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9J362QHwSA&index=64&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs... <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9J362QHwSA&index=64&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs...> Clément’s Sista talk at ESUG (2 parts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4E_FoLysJg&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZOk3qojoVE&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw... Eliot’s Spur talk at ESUG (3 parts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0nBNS1aHZ4&index=49&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn3irBZE7g4&index=48&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs... <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn3irBZE7g4&index=48&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs...> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vg0iFeg_pA&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw...

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian@flowingconcept.com <mailto:sebastian@flowingconcept.com>> wrote: remarkable!!!

congratulations for the impressive results

thanks for sharing!

sebastian

o/

...

On 23/10/2014, at 17:40, Max Leske <maxleske@gmail.com <mailto:maxleske@gmail.com>> wrote:

For those of you who missed this on IRC:

henriksp: estebanlm: Care to run a small bench Cog vs Spur for me? [3:32pm] henriksp: int := ZnUTF8Encoder new. [3:32pm] henriksp: [int decodeBytes:#[67 97 115 104 44 32 108 105 107 101 32 226 130 172 44 32 105 115 32 107 105 110 103 0]] bench. [3:32pm] henriksp: had a 16x speedup with assembly implementation vs Cog, if it's 8x vs Spur, that's just really impressive [3:44pm] Craig left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving.) [3:53pm] Craig joined the chat room. [4:08pm] VitamineD joined the chat room. [4:20pm] estebanlm: checking [4:21pm] estebanlm: Cog: 167,000 per second. [4:22pm] estebanlm: Cog[Spur]: 289,000 per second. [4:23pm] estebanlm: henriksp: ping [4:33pm] tinchodias left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [4:33pm] tinchodias joined the chat room. [4:34pm] henriksp: 70% more work done, nice! [5:09pm]

Yay! :)

The current x2 speed boost is due only to spur, not to sista. Sista will provide additional performance, but we have still things to do before production. The performance gain reported is due to (from most important to less important): - the new GC has less overhead. 30% of the execution time used to be spent in the GC. - the new object format speeds up some VM internal caches (especially inline caches for message sends due to an indirection for object classes with a class table). - the new object format allows some C code to be converted into machine code routines, including block creation, context creation, primitive #at:put:, which is faster because switching from jitted code to C then back to jitted code generate a little overhead. - characters are now immediate objects, which speeds up String accessing. - the new object format has a larger hash which speeds up big hashed collections such as big sets and dictionaries. - become is faster. 2014-10-24 15:20 GMT+02:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com>:

thanks max, i completely forgotten about esug videos, looks like i found what to watch during the weekend :D

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Max Leske <maxleske@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 24.10.2014, at 15:06, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

very nice

so any more information to this, how exactly this optimization works and which kind of data will benefit from this ?

Clément’s byte code set talk at ESUG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9J362QHwSA&index=64&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs... Clément’s Sista talk at ESUG (2 parts):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4E_FoLysJg&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZOk3qojoVE&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw...

Eliot’s Spur talk at ESUG (3 parts):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0nBNS1aHZ4&index=49&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn3irBZE7g4&index=48&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vg0iFeg_pA&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw...

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Sebastian Sastre < sebastian@flowingconcept.com> wrote:

...

remarkable!!!

congratulations for the impressive results

thanks for sharing!

sebastian

o/

...

On 23/10/2014, at 17:40, Max Leske <maxleske@gmail.com> wrote:

For those of you who missed this on IRC:

henriksp: estebanlm: Care to run a small bench Cog vs Spur for me? [3:32pm] henriksp: int := ZnUTF8Encoder new. [3:32pm] henriksp: [int decodeBytes:#[67 97 115 104 44 32 108 105 107 101 32 226 130 172 44 32 105 115 32 107 105 110 103 0]] bench. [3:32pm] henriksp: had a 16x speedup with assembly implementation vs Cog, if it's 8x vs Spur, that's just really impressive [3:44pm] Craig left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving.) [3:53pm] Craig joined the chat room. [4:08pm] VitamineD joined the chat room. [4:20pm] estebanlm: checking [4:21pm] estebanlm: Cog: 167,000 per second. [4:22pm] estebanlm: Cog[Spur]: 289,000 per second. [4:23pm] estebanlm: henriksp: ping [4:33pm] tinchodias left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [4:33pm] tinchodias joined the chat room. [4:34pm] henriksp: 70% more work done, nice! [5:09pm]

Yay! :)

2014-10-24 15:50 GMT+02:00 Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com>:

The current x2 speed boost is due only to spur, not to sista. Sista will provide additional performance, but we have still things to do before production.

The performance gain reported is due to (from most important to less important): - the new GC has less overhead. 30% of the execution time used to be spent in the GC. - the new object format speeds up some VM internal caches (especially inline caches for message sends due to an indirection for object classes with a class table). - the new object format allows some C code to be converted into machine code routines, including block creation, context creation, primitive #at:put:, which is faster because switching from jitted code to C then back to jitted code generate a little overhead. - characters are now immediate objects, which speeds up String accessing. - the new object format has a larger hash which speeds up big hashed collections such as big sets and dictionaries. - become is faster.

All this is really cool :) And if I remember well, there is 64 bitness coming as well. Will Spur also cover ARM ? Thierry

2014-10-24 15:20 GMT+02:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com>:

...

thanks max, i completely forgotten about esug videos, looks like i found what to watch during the weekend :D

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Max Leske <maxleske@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 24.10.2014, at 15:06, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

very nice

so any more information to this, how exactly this optimization works and which kind of data will benefit from this ?

Clément's byte code set talk at ESUG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9J362QHwSA&index=64&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs... Clément's Sista talk at ESUG (2 parts):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4E_FoLysJg&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZOk3qojoVE&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw...

Eliot's Spur talk at ESUG (3 parts):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0nBNS1aHZ4&index=49&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn3irBZE7g4&index=48&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vg0iFeg_pA&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw...

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Sebastian Sastre < sebastian@flowingconcept.com> wrote:

...

remarkable!!!

congratulations for the impressive results

thanks for sharing!

sebastian

o/

...

On 23/10/2014, at 17:40, Max Leske <maxleske@gmail.com> wrote:

For those of you who missed this on IRC:

henriksp: estebanlm: Care to run a small bench Cog vs Spur for me? [3:32pm] henriksp: int := ZnUTF8Encoder new. [3:32pm] henriksp: [int decodeBytes:#[67 97 115 104 44 32 108 105 107 101 32 226 130 172 44 32 105 115 32 107 105 110 103 0]] bench. [3:32pm] henriksp: had a 16x speedup with assembly implementation vs Cog, if it's 8x vs Spur, that's just really impressive [3:44pm] Craig left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving.) [3:53pm] Craig joined the chat room. [4:08pm] VitamineD joined the chat room. [4:20pm] estebanlm: checking [4:21pm] estebanlm: Cog: 167,000 per second. [4:22pm] estebanlm: Cog[Spur]: 289,000 per second. [4:23pm] estebanlm: henriksp: ping [4:33pm] tinchodias left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [4:33pm] tinchodias joined the chat room. [4:34pm] henriksp: 70% more work done, nice! [5:09pm]

Yay! :)

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:

On 24 Oct 2014, at 16:21, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com> wrote:

2014-10-24 15:50 GMT+02:00 Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com>:

...

The current x2 speed boost is due only to spur, not to sista. Sista will provide additional performance, but we have still things to do before production.

The performance gain reported is due to (from most important to less important): - the new GC has less overhead. 30% of the execution time used to be spent in the GC. - the new object format speeds up some VM internal caches (especially inline caches for message sends due to an indirection for object classes with a class table). - the new object format allows some C code to be converted into machine code routines, including block creation, context creation, primitive #at:put:, which is faster because switching from jitted code to C then back to jitted code generate a little overhead. - characters are now immediate objects, which speeds up String accessing. - the new object format has a larger hash which speeds up big hashed collections such as big sets and dictionaries. - become is faster.

All this is really cool :) And if I remember well, there is 64 bitness coming as well.

Will Spur also cover ARM ?

Spur is an object format, it does not have anything to do with underlying architecture (well, at least in theory… Eliot should be able to say more on this). Cog, in the other side is a jitter, and it has everything to do with the architecture so is difficult to have it running on ARM (but there is work on that direction, so we hope it will be there eventually).

It looks like there is a misunderstanding (probably not you, Thierry, but since I’ve seen it time to time, I take the chance to clarify): Spur is not a replacement for Cog, both are orthogonal (in fact, Spur runs in Stack vm too). Real new VM is not “Spur” vm, is "Cog+Spur" vm.

+1. Spur changes the object representation, so it has a new heap layout, a new layout for objects, and a new garbage collector. Because the object format is simpler it allows the Cog JIT to generate machine code versions of more operations, in particular basicNew, basicNew: and closure and context creation. This is the main reason for the speedups in Cog+Spur. As far as the Stack VM goes if you see speedups for Stack+Spur vs Stack+V3 that's all due to the Spur object representation & GC, because there's no JIT. Now at the moment the Cog JIT only has an x86 back-end in production. Tim Rowledge is working on finishing the ARM back end started by Lars Wassermann in the GSoC a few years ago. So soonish we should be able to have Cog+V3 or Cog+Spur on e.g. Android. As part of 64-bit Spur I will be doing a back end for x86-64. And Doug McPherson is also in the mix, having written the ARM version of the new FFI plugin, and is going to be building Stack ARM VMs and soon enough Cog ARM VMs.

cheers, Esteban

Thierry

...

2014-10-24 15:20 GMT+02:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com>:

...

thanks max, i completely forgotten about esug videos, looks like i found what to watch during the weekend :D

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Max Leske <maxleske@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 24.10.2014, at 15:06, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

very nice

so any more information to this, how exactly this optimization works and which kind of data will benefit from this ?

Clément’s byte code set talk at ESUG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9J362QHwSA&index=64&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs... Clément’s Sista talk at ESUG (2 parts):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4E_FoLysJg&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZOk3qojoVE&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw...

Eliot’s Spur talk at ESUG (3 parts):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0nBNS1aHZ4&index=49&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn3irBZE7g4&index=48&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vg0iFeg_pA&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw...

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Sebastian Sastre < sebastian@flowingconcept.com> wrote:

...

remarkable!!!

congratulations for the impressive results

thanks for sharing!

sebastian

o/

...

On 23/10/2014, at 17:40, Max Leske <maxleske@gmail.com> wrote:

For those of you who missed this on IRC:

henriksp: estebanlm: Care to run a small bench Cog vs Spur for me? [3:32pm] henriksp: int := ZnUTF8Encoder new. [3:32pm] henriksp: [int decodeBytes:#[67 97 115 104 44 32 108 105 107 101 32 226 130 172 44 32 105 115 32 107 105 110 103 0]] bench. [3:32pm] henriksp: had a 16x speedup with assembly implementation vs Cog, if it's 8x vs Spur, that's just really impressive [3:44pm] Craig left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving.) [3:53pm] Craig joined the chat room. [4:08pm] VitamineD joined the chat room. [4:20pm] estebanlm: checking [4:21pm] estebanlm: Cog: 167,000 per second. [4:22pm] estebanlm: Cog[Spur]: 289,000 per second. [4:23pm] estebanlm: henriksp: ping [4:33pm] tinchodias left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [4:33pm] tinchodias joined the chat room. [4:34pm] henriksp: 70% more work done, nice! [5:09pm]

Yay! :)

-- best, Eliot

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com

wrote:

Le 24/10/2014 19:07, Eliot Miranda a écrit :

...

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote:

On 24 Oct 2014, at 16:21, Thierry Goubier

...

<thierry.goubier@gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote:

2014-10-24 15:50 GMT+02:00 Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com <mailto:bera.clement@gmail.com>>:

The current x2 speed boost is due only to spur, not to sista. Sista will provide additional performance, but we have still things to do before production.

The performance gain reported is due to (from most important to less important): - the new GC has less overhead. 30% of the execution time used to be spent in the GC. - the new object format speeds up some VM internal caches (especially inline caches for message sends due to an indirection for object classes with a class table). - the new object format allows some C code to be converted into machine code routines, including block creation, context creation, primitive #at:put:, which is faster because switching from jitted code to C then back to jitted code generate a little overhead. - characters are now immediate objects, which speeds up String accessing. - the new object format has a larger hash which speeds up big hashed collections such as big sets and dictionaries. - become is faster.

All this is really cool :) And if I remember well, there is 64 bitness coming as well.

Will Spur also cover ARM ?

Spur is an object format, it does not have anything to do with underlying architecture (well, at least in theory… Eliot should be able to say more on this). Cog, in the other side is a jitter, and it has everything to do with the architecture so is difficult to have it running on ARM (but there is work on that direction, so we hope it will be there eventually).

It looks like there is a misunderstanding (probably not you, Thierry, but since I’ve seen it time to time, I take the chance to clarify): Spur is not a replacement for Cog, both are orthogonal (in fact, Spur runs in Stack vm too). Real new VM is not “Spur” vm, is "Cog+Spur" vm.

+1. Spur changes the object representation, so it has a new heap layout, a new layout for objects, and a new garbage collector. Because the object format is simpler it allows the Cog JIT to generate machine code versions of more operations, in particular basicNew, basicNew: and closure and context creation. This is the main reason for the speedups in Cog+Spur. As far as the Stack VM goes if you see speedups for Stack+Spur vs Stack+V3 that's all due to the Spur object representation & GC, because there's no JIT.

Now at the moment the Cog JIT only has an x86 back-end in production. Tim Rowledge is working on finishing the ARM back end started by Lars Wassermann in the GSoC a few years ago. So soonish we should be able to have Cog+V3 or Cog+Spur on e.g. Android.

As part of 64-bit Spur I will be doing a back end for x86-64.

Which is then a 64bits Spur+Cog+Sista, right?

It should be able to be used for Spur+Cog or Spur+Cog+Sista. Depends how quickly I can write the 64-bit Spur and how quickly Clément can put Sista into production. And Doug McPherson is also in the mix, having written the ARM version of

...

the new FFI plugin, and is going to be building Stack ARM VMs and soon enough Cog ARM VMs.

Thanks for all those news, this is really great.

Yes, I'm very excited. It's so great to have strong collaborators like Clément, Ronie, Doug and Tim. But there's lots of room for more to join us. For a really cool project how about grabbing Bert Freudenberg's VMMakerJS Squeak-vm-on-JavaScript, extract the event handling and rendering part and connect it to the Cog VM via sockets to give us a really fast web plugin? -- best, Eliot

Hi Thierry, On Oct 25, 2014, at 2:52 AM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com> wrote:

Le 24/10/2014 19:50, Eliot Miranda a écrit :

...

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote:

Le 24/10/2014 19:07, Eliot Miranda a écrit :

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>> wrote:

On 24 Oct 2014, at 16:21, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier@gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com> <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.__com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>>> wrote:

2014-10-24 15:50 GMT+02:00 Clément Bera <bera.clement@gmail.com <mailto:bera.clement@gmail.com> <mailto:bera.clement@gmail.com <mailto:bera.clement@gmail.com>__>>:

The current x2 speed boost is due only to spur, not to sista. Sista will provide additional performance, but we have still things to do before production.

The performance gain reported is due to (from most important to less important): - the new GC has less overhead. 30% of the execution time used to be spent in the GC. - the new object format speeds up some VM internal caches (especially inline caches for message sends due to an indirection for object classes with a class table). - the new object format allows some C code to be converted into machine code routines, including block creation, context creation, primitive #at:put:, which is faster because switching from jitted code to C then back to jitted code generate a little overhead. - characters are now immediate objects, which speeds up String accessing. - the new object format has a larger hash which speeds up big hashed collections such as big sets and dictionaries. - become is faster.

All this is really cool :) And if I remember well, there is 64 bitness coming as well.

Will Spur also cover ARM ?

Spur is an object format, it does not have anything to do with underlying architecture (well, at least in theory… Eliot should be able to say more on this). Cog, in the other side is a jitter, and it has everything to do with the architecture so is difficult to have it running on ARM (but there is work on that direction, so we hope it will be there eventually).

It looks like there is a misunderstanding (probably not you, Thierry, but since I’ve seen it time to time, I take the chance to clarify): Spur is not a replacement for Cog, both are orthogonal (in fact, Spur runs in Stack vm too). Real new VM is not “Spur” vm, is "Cog+Spur" vm.

+1. Spur changes the object representation, so it has a new heap layout, a new layout for objects, and a new garbage collector. Because the object format is simpler it allows the Cog JIT to generate machine code versions of more operations, in particular basicNew, basicNew: and closure and context creation. This is the main reason for the speedups in Cog+Spur. As far as the Stack VM goes if you see speedups for Stack+Spur vs Stack+V3 that's all due to the Spur object representation & GC, because there's no JIT.

Now at the moment the Cog JIT only has an x86 back-end in production. Tim Rowledge is working on finishing the ARM back end started by Lars Wassermann in the GSoC a few years ago. So soonish we should be able to have Cog+V3 or Cog+Spur on e.g. Android.

As part of 64-bit Spur I will be doing a back end for x86-64.

Which is then a 64bits Spur+Cog+Sista, right?

It should be able to be used for Spur+Cog or Spur+Cog+Sista. Depends how quickly I can write the 64-bit Spur and how quickly Clément can put Sista into production.

Ok.

...

And Doug McPherson is also in the mix, having written the ARM version of the new FFI plugin, and is going to be building Stack ARM VMs and soon enough Cog ARM VMs.

Thanks for all those news, this is really great.

Yes, I'm very excited. It's so great to have strong collaborators like Clément, Ronie, Doug and Tim. But there's lots of room for more to join us. For a really cool project how about grabbing Bert Freudenberg's VMMakerJS Squeak-vm-on-JavaScript, extract the event handling and rendering part and connect it to the Cog VM via sockets to give us a really fast web plugin?

Is that one really needed? I had the feeling web plugins were so last year and that we could just do: Amber, or even a remote desktop client in the web browser with Squeak/Pharo RDP support (which is a bit more general than a really fast web plugin).

If Amber is useful then a Squeak/Pharo/Scratch/whatever plugin is useful. Amber has limitations (no thisContext, no become, no run-time class redefinition, no instance migration there-on, limited performance, especially for non-local return), but it is still useful enough for people to go through that extra deployment and verification step to check that the code still works under Amber. If one can't live with those limitations or if one doesn't want to pay the cost of the extra deployments step then a plugin solves that problem. Don't confuse an absence as a lack of need. Because there has been no "plugin" solution for a few years doesn't mean it's not needed. That people have put significant effort into alternatives like Amber and Jalapeño proves it is useful.

Moreover, I see that the only thing with potential linked to the web today is to handle tablets/smartphones, and this is a bit why I'm asking about ARM support (also embedding in small stuff, like Cortex M0-M4 stuff with BLE, solar cells and batteries). For now, the only use we have for Smalltalk in there is as C code generation / deployment IDEs on the desktop (aka B. Pottier Netgen), and as back-end on web deployment with Seaside + others.

There doesn't need to be an either/or in a growing community.

Thierry

Yes, I'm very excited. It's so great to have strong collaborators like Clément, Ronie, Doug and Tim. But there's lots of room for more to join us. For a really cool project how about grabbing Bert Freudenberg's VMMakerJS Squeak-vm-on-JavaScript, extract the event handling and rendering part and connect it to the Cog VM via sockets to give us a really fast web plugin?

I thought that the event handling was what JB is doing with the idle process on android. Stef

-- best, Eliot

On Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Eliot Miranda wrote:

On Oct 26, 2014, at 8:58 AM, stepharo <stepharo@free.fr> wrote:

...

...

Yes, I'm very excited. It's so great to have strong collaborators like Clément, Ronie, Doug and Tim. But there's lots of room for more to join us. For a really cool project how about grabbing Bert Freudenberg's VMMakerJS Squeak-vm-on-JavaScript, extract the event handling and rendering part and connect it to the Cog VM via sockets to give us a really fast web plugin?

I thought that the event handling was what JB is doing with the idle process on android.

These are two different, but closely related things. The event-driven VM and idle process work gives us better event handling (no event queue, important for better integration with GUIs) and a cheaper VM at idle (the CM blocks awaiting an event instead of spinning calling a shirt delay).

Just a friendly reminder before someone starts to reinvent the wheel: the event-driven VM already exists. Proposal: http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2009-November/003385.html Announcement: http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-January/003684.html Repo: https://code.google.com/p/squeak-android-vm/ StackVM variant with other improvments: https://code.google.com/p/squeakvm-tablet/ Levente

To embed the system in a web browser one needs both to render to the browser window and to receive mouse and keyboard events from the window.

So the "plugin" must be connected to the VM's event subsystem e.g. by a socket. Just as the VM's graphics subsystem must output to the browser window. There are lots of ways to slice this and it will likely be different for BitBlt and Athens.

Eliot (phone)

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Stef

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-- best, Eliot

On Oct 24, 2014, at 6:12 AM, Max Leske <maxleske@gmail.com> wrote:

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On 24.10.2014, at 15:06, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

very nice

so any more information to this, how exactly this optimization works and which kind of data will benefit from this ?

Just to be clear, the speed up measured here is due to Spur. Sista is in development and should produce even larger speed ups than the ~ -40% speed ups Spur achieves. Spur should speed up all pure Smalltalk code by - providing faster instantiation (including closures) - providing faster at:put: -providing faster GC (scavenging vs stackless scan-mark-compact) - providing much faster become - providing much faster wide string access via immediate characters

Clément’s byte code set talk at ESUG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9J362QHwSA&index=64&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs... Clément’s Sista talk at ESUG (2 parts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4E_FoLysJg&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZOk3qojoVE&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw...

Eliot’s Spur talk at ESUG (3 parts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0nBNS1aHZ4&index=49&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn3irBZE7g4&index=48&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLs... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vg0iFeg_pA&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_6yyRLsMMBqG8Ylw...

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On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian@flowingconcept.com> wrote:

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remarkable!!!

congratulations for the impressive results

thanks for sharing!

sebastian

o/

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On 23/10/2014, at 17:40, Max Leske <maxleske@gmail.com> wrote:

For those of you who missed this on IRC:

henriksp: estebanlm: Care to run a small bench Cog vs Spur for me? [3:32pm] henriksp: int := ZnUTF8Encoder new. [3:32pm] henriksp: [int decodeBytes:#[67 97 115 104 44 32 108 105 107 101 32 226 130 172 44 32 105 115 32 107 105 110 103 0]] bench. [3:32pm] henriksp: had a 16x speedup with assembly implementation vs Cog, if it's 8x vs Spur, that's just really impressive [3:44pm] Craig left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving.) [3:53pm] Craig joined the chat room. [4:08pm] VitamineD joined the chat room. [4:20pm] estebanlm: checking [4:21pm] estebanlm: Cog: 167,000 per second. [4:22pm] estebanlm: Cog[Spur]: 289,000 per second. [4:23pm] estebanlm: henriksp: ping [4:33pm] tinchodias left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [4:33pm] tinchodias joined the chat room. [4:34pm] henriksp: 70% more work done, nice! [5:09pm]

Yay! :)

Eliot (phone)