Question on Package comments [SO]
There was a question on SO about documentations for Packages: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26292060/is-there-any-pharo-package-refer... I don't have enough reputation for adding comments in SO, therefore, I ask the questions here: The question is closed and I don't understand why. It is a valid question and I do remember that this was a topic on this list as well: show document/help text in configuration browser/ tooltip for packages in Nautilus/ comment package like it is done for classes. For that user, who asked the question on SO: At least for external packages there are sometimes some information on github or squeaksource and we should show him a link to the pharo user mailing list. (and no, the http://lmgtfy.com/ link is not helpful nor funny) nicolai
Nicolai Hess wrote
It is a valid question
I agree. And at the same time, after reading their reasoning, while seemingly overzealous, their decision seems logically sound based on SO rules. I added this comment: I think that the closest you have is ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoProjectCatalog/â¦, which is an attempt-in-progress in making a package catalog. Also, most better-known Pharo projects seem to be hosted on SmalltalkHub which provides a Markdown description for each project (provided of course that someone has filled it out!) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Question-on-Package-comments-SO-tp4785191p4785223.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
2014-10-17 23:43 GMT+02:00 Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com>:
Nicolai Hess wrote
It is a valid question
I agree. And at the same time, after reading their reasoning, while seemingly overzealous, their decision seems logically sound based on SO rules. I added this comment:
I think that the closest you have is ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoProjectCatalog/â¦, which is an attempt-in-progress in making a package catalog. Also, most better-known Pharo projects seem to be hosted on SmalltalkHub which provides a Markdown description for each project (provided of course that someone has filled it out!)
thank you!
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Question-on-Package-comments-SO-tp4785191p4785223.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I disagree and I downvoted the question because its clear he did not even bother to google for documentation. Maybe he forgot or maybe he meants something else than it is already available. I am mostly against SO strict policy but in this case I will have to agree with it, the question is too vague for it anyway. On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 1:27 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2014-10-17 23:43 GMT+02:00 Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com>:
Nicolai Hess wrote
It is a valid question
I agree. And at the same time, after reading their reasoning, while seemingly overzealous, their decision seems logically sound based on SO rules. I added this comment:
I think that the closest you have is ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoProjectCatalog/â¦, which is an attempt-in-progress in making a package catalog. Also, most better-known Pharo projects seem to be hosted on SmalltalkHub which provides a Markdown description for each project (provided of course that someone has filled it out!)
thank you!
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Question-on-Package-comments-SO-tp4785191p4785223.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
2014-10-18 0:38 GMT+02:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com>:
I disagree and I downvoted the question because its clear he did not even bother to google for documentation.
He asked: "Does there exist any comprehensive reference for what each one [Package] is" The answer is "no". How can he found this out without asking?
Nicolai Hess wrote
I disagree and I downvoted the question because its clear he did not even bother to google for documentation. He asked: "Does there exist any comprehensive reference for what each one [Package] is" The answer is "no". How can he found this out without asking?
I have to agree with Nicolai here. He wasn't asking "how do I find the docs for package Xyz?" in which case search would be obvious. What exactly would he type into google to find out if Pharo had a package catalog, like Squeak Map? I think it's a logical question that could be difficult to google. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Question-on-Package-comments-SO-tp4785191p4785240.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I agree with Kilon. May be he is true about a lack of a package/class reference documentation/system like in java or dotnet but I find the question a little biased and SO policy is right on that : "questions to find (...) tools, libraries (...) are off-topic, they tend to attract opinionated answers and spam. Describe the problem (...)". If he already downloaded the VM, he could have asked in the newsgroup instead. May be building a tool (javadoc like, extracting class and method comments with additional tags) could be of some interest ? Not only for newcomers. Regards, Alain Le 18/10/2014 02:54, Sean P. DeNigris a écrit :
Nicolai Hess wrote
I disagree and I downvoted the question because its clear he did not even bother to google for documentation. He asked: "Does there exist any comprehensive reference for what each one [Package] is" The answer is "no". How can he found this out without asking?
I have to agree with Nicolai here. He wasn't asking "how do I find the docs for package Xyz?" in which case search would be obvious. What exactly would he type into google to find out if Pharo had a package catalog, like Squeak Map? I think it's a logical question that could be difficult to google.
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Question-on-Package-comments-SO-tp4785191p4785240.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
There this dark magic in internet called Google search, as a Jedi yourself you may not use but I a sith lord myself I use it all the time. I have used more time to find out about thing than I have posted here, you know why ? Because its quite rare for google search not to able to find something. Google search is some serious black magic. So here is the workflow Step 1- you google search "pharo documentation" , on of the top search results is the pharo website. Now the fact that Pharo has a centralised website should make you suspicious that if a centralised reference documentation is not linked there then you should be almost certain that it does not exist. Step 2- you have went through the links of the documentation and you are still convinced. No problemo, pick a library that is not documented in there and is part of the pharo official distribution, hey why not , pick 10 libraries / packages , add some DLLs to spice it up and use again google search. Do you find documentation links for them, are those links in any case centralised in a single web site ? or at least in a single pharo tool ? No. You can now safely assume that there is no such thing. This process is called deductive reasoning. Also it does not take much of browsing SO to realise that is not the right place to ask these questions. If you google pharo it even gives you the link to this mailing list. To be fair however this may not be entirely his fault and Pharo website is to be blamed here to for example in the community sub page it says "If you have any question regarding Pharo, use StackOverflow <http://stackoverflow.com/tags/pharo>." This is a mistake , a very big one. StackOverflow most definetly does not accept any question and should not be used as the main way to ask any kind questions. This should change to at least "If you have specific practical questions regarding Pharo , use StackOverflow, for generic questions use the mailing list". I sorry if I sound a bit too sarcastic but seriously we need as a internet community and I am talking about the whole internet and not just pharo , agree that we need to stress the mandatory use of google. It will save people time, especially those that ask questions and expose them in information that a forum or a QA website will never offer them. On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 1:50 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2014-10-18 0:38 GMT+02:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com>:
I disagree and I downvoted the question because its clear he did not even bother to google for documentation.
He asked: "Does there exist any comprehensive reference for what each one [Package] is" The answer is "no". How can he found this out without asking?
kilon.alios wrote
I sorry if I sound a bit too sarcastic
Well the sarcasm seemed especially misguided since it's directed at other people trying to help and not at the original asker of the question, but I guess that's the price we pay for a passion-filled community ;) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Question-on-Package-comments-SO-tp4785191p4785317.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I am not passion filled, if pharo was my passion I would have made a living out of it and work on it 24/7, I love pharo indeed and I enjoy using it but its far from making me passionate user. There are other things that make me passionate though. My sarcasm should only be taken as a joke hence why I used the jedi and sith paradigm. Its my opinion and I can assure you I have no issue with people disagreeing with my opinion as I disagree with others. On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 8:52 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
kilon.alios wrote
I sorry if I sound a bit too sarcastic
Well the sarcasm seemed especially misguided since it's directed at other people trying to help and not at the original asker of the question, but I guess that's the price we pay for a passion-filled community ;)
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Question-on-Package-comments-SO-tp4785191p4785317.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Le 18 oct. 2014 20:48, "kilon alios" <kilon.alios@gmail.com> a écrit :
I am not passion filled, if pharo was my passion I would have made a
living out of it and work on it 24/7, I love pharo indeed and I enjoy using it but its far from making me passionate user. There are other things that make me passionate though.
As I am earning my bread with Pharo for about a year now, I'd chime in. I had a look at that question and wondered why it was closed. It sounded harsh. We need as many people as possible in the community to get traction. We should take special care of SO as it is not useful to abide their policy but help us with our growth. It is part of the marketing. Phil
My sarcasm should only be taken as a joke hence why I used the jedi and sith paradigm. Its my opinion and I can assure you I have no issue with people disagreeing with my opinion as I disagree with others.
On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 8:52 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean@clipperadams.com> wrote:
kilon.alios wrote
I sorry if I sound a bit too sarcastic
Well the sarcasm seemed especially misguided since it's directed at other people trying to help and not at the original asker of the question, but
I
guess that's the price we pay for a passion-filled community ;)
----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Question-on-Package-comments-SO-tp4785191p4785317.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 18/10/2014 23:17, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
Le 18 oct. 2014 20:48, "kilon alios" <kilon.alios@gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> a écrit :
As I am earning my bread with Pharo for about a year now, I'd chime in.
I had a look at that question and wondered why it was closed.
It sounded harsh.
One main reason it was closed would be that it is asking for a recommendation of an off site (ie non SO) resource. SO likes the answers to be self contained so that when any links rot and don't provide an answer the SO answer is still there, they do accept links providing more details. Also in this case the answer will change over time as I suspect the current answer would be a range of sites and in future these might get concentrated into the books etc.
We need as many people as possible in the community to get traction.
We should take special care of SO as it is not useful to abide their policy but help us with our growth. It is part of the marketing.
-- Mark
Hi nicolai - ideally I would like a small DSL to describe the key design of a package. - then the configuration of the package is the place to put a documentation https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoProjectCatalog/HTML_Report/ - when the configuration is loaded, the fly by help on the name of the package shows the description. - we could also use the package manifest. Christophe is in the process of redoing everything now that my prototype shows that it could work nicely. Stef On 17/10/14 17:30, Nicolai Hess wrote:
There was a question on SO about documentations for Packages: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26292060/is-there-any-pharo-package-refer...
I don't have enough reputation for adding comments in SO, therefore, I ask the questions here:
The question is closed and I don't understand why. It is a valid question and I do remember that this was a topic on this list as well: show document/help text in configuration browser/ tooltip for packages in Nautilus/ comment package like it is done for classes.
For that user, who asked the question on SO: At least for external packages there are sometimes some information on github or squeaksource and we should show him a link to the pharo user mailing list.
(and no, the http://lmgtfy.com/ link is not helpful nor funny)
nicolai
participants (7)
-
Alain Rastoul -
kilon alios -
Mark Bestley -
Nicolai Hess -
phil＠highoctane.be -
Sean P. DeNigris -
stepharo