http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma... <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma...> Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed! This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word about the campaign as far and wide as I could. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
A blank. Nothing happened to this project in more than a year https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master It is mostly vapourware and has no users. People following the links on the article will soon find out. Just sad.
On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma... <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma...>
Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Picking up and promoting inactive projects just to put a tick on a feature's checkbox can backfire big time. If there is one thing I've been always proud as a Smtalltalker is that we don't sell hype or vaporware, rather the contrary (which is also a failure). I'm all in to embrace an aggressive PR campaign, but only if properly curated. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo 2015-01-14 19:55 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
A blank.
Nothing happened to this project in more than a year
https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master
It is mostly vapourware and has no users.
People following the links on the article will soon find out.
Just sad.
On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma... <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma...>
Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On the other hand we are fragmented and compartamentalized big time. Itâs 2015 and I never had hear about this before (from 2013): http://bulenkov.com/2013/04/23/smalltalk-support-in-intellij-idea/ <http://bulenkov.com/2013/04/23/smalltalk-support-in-intellij-idea/> Something like that would give you the power of all the Java libraries. Are you feeling it? Thatâs exactly the propeller that Clojure has used to go where it is now.
On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:24 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
Picking up and promoting inactive projects just to put a tick on a feature's checkbox can backfire big time.
If there is one thing I've been always proud as a Smtalltalker is that we don't sell hype or vaporware, rather the contrary (which is also a failure).
I'm all in to embrace an aggressive PR campaign, but only if properly curated.
Regards!
Esteban A. Maringolo
2015-01-14 19:55 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu>:
A blank.
Nothing happened to this project in more than a year
https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master
It is mostly vapourware and has no users.
People following the links on the article will soon find out.
Just sad.
On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma... <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma...>
Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Le 15/1/15 00:30, Sebastian Sastre a écrit :
On the other hand we are fragmented and compartamentalized big time.
Itâs 2015 and I never had hear about this before (from 2013): http://bulenkov.com/2013/04/23/smalltalk-support-in-intellij-idea/
Something like that would give you the power of all the Java libraries.
Are you feeling it?
Thatâs exactly the propeller that Clojure has used to go where it is now.
On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:24 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com <mailto:emaringolo@gmail.com>> wrote:
Picking up and promoting inactive projects just to put a tick on a feature's checkbox can backfire big time.
If there is one thing I've been always proud as a Smtalltalker is that we don't sell hype or vaporware, rather the contrary (which is also a failure).
I'm all in to embrace an aggressive PR campaign, but only if properly curated.
Regards!
Esteban A. Maringolo
2015-01-14 19:55 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu <mailto:sven@stfx.eu>>:
A blank.
Nothing happened to this project in more than a year
https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master
It is mostly vapourware and has no users.
People following the links on the article will soon find out.
Just sad.
On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com <mailto:horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>> wrote:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma... <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma...>
Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Sven--
Nothing happened to this project in more than a year... It is mostly > vapourware and has no users. People following the links on the article will soon find out.
Well, perhaps this reminder will stimulate some interest. -C -- Craig Latta netjam.org +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:29 PM, Craig Latta <craig@netjam.org> wrote:
Hi Sven--
Nothing happened to this project in more than a year... It is mostly > vapourware and has no users. People following the links on the article will soon find out.
Well, perhaps this reminder will stimulate some interest.
totally +1 The guy only needs 4K and this gets to 1.0? Weâre nutz if that doesnât happen
Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can also get you bitten. :) El ene 14, 2015 8:33 PM, "Sebastian Sastre" <sebastian@flowingconcept.com> escribió:
On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:29 PM, Craig Latta <craig@netjam.org> wrote:
Hi Sven--
Nothing happened to this project in more than a year... It is mostly >
vapourware and has no users. People following the links on the
article will soon find out.
Well, perhaps this reminder will stimulate some interest.
totally +1
The guy only needs 4K and this gets to 1.0?
Weâre nutz if that doesnât happen
Lets see the big picture here, if you take a look at TIOBE INDEX or LANGPOP or the internet at large you get a clear picture about java based languages . Popularity wise they have been a ultimate failure. Right now the only language that is barely noticable is Scala and even Scala is nowhere near as popular as the less popular languages like Pascal, Delphi and Visual Basic. Of course each website gives diffirent numbers but those numbers are just different in only few percentage units. http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html http://langpop.com/ Hype also does not help those languages either. Take a look at Clojure , one of the most overhyped languages out there not just on JVM but anywhere, in both websites I mentioned Clojure like Pharo does not make it even in top 50. Tons of blogs post about Clojure only, tons of praise, and praise and praise. I can say about jython itself , a python implementation for the JVM and ironpython which is python for .NET are barely noticable in the python world with cpython gathering at least 99.9% of the attention. So its a really hard situation . Coding has become extremely complex and demanding , coders want languages are deeply documented and come with tons of libraries so its very hard for new languages to kick in. Also the assumption that because you love a language you will be willing to start using java libraries seems to have failed miserably. These languages seem more appealing to java developers and java developers dont seem willing to abandon Java any time soon. So as always Java death has been greatly exaggerated. The situation for Javascript based languages is even worse. So frankly what has happened with Redline is pretty normal. On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Craig Latta <craig@netjam.org> wrote:
Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can also get you bitten. :)
Sure, and shaking the hive too rarely will get you starved.
-C
-- Craig Latta netjam.org +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
As I've written elsewhere, I believe the TIOBE index is plain rubbish. Much of their rankings make no sense to me whatsoever. Langpop.corger.nl <http://langpop.corger.nl/> is my "go to" website for language rankings. It's not perfect, but it makes a whole lot more sense to me. Scala, Groovy, and Clojure are not "ultimate failures." Heck, they're doing at least as well as Go, my second favourite language of all time. (Go is red-hot in China. Go has an enviable set of "standard" libraries.) I agree that Java is our greatest foe. We are "300" against its Xerxes. That's why I am sanguine about Redline â we need it! kilon.alios wrote
Lets see the big picture here, if you take a look at TIOBE INDEX or LANGPOP or the internet at large you get a clear picture about java based languages . Popularity wise they have been a ultimate failure. Right now the only language that is barely noticable is Scala and even Scala is nowhere near as popular as the less popular languages like Pascal, Delphi and Visual Basic. Of course each website gives diffirent numbers but those numbers are just different in only few percentage units.
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
Hype also does not help those languages either. Take a look at Clojure , one of the most overhyped languages out there not just on JVM but anywhere, in both websites I mentioned Clojure like Pharo does not make it even in top 50. Tons of blogs post about Clojure only, tons of praise, and praise and praise.
I can say about jython itself , a python implementation for the JVM and ironpython which is python for .NET are barely noticable in the python world with cpython gathering at least 99.9% of the attention.
So its a really hard situation . Coding has become extremely complex and demanding , coders want languages are deeply documented and come with tons of libraries so its very hard for new languages to kick in. Also the assumption that because you love a language you will be willing to start using java libraries seems to have failed miserably. These languages seem more appealing to java developers and java developers dont seem willing to abandon Java any time soon.
So as always Java death has been greatly exaggerated.
The situation for Javascript based languages is even worse.
So frankly what has happened with Redline is pretty normal.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Craig Latta <
craig@
> wrote:
Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can also get you bitten. :)
Sure, and shaking the hive too rarely will get you starved.
-C
-- Craig Latta netjam.org +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799716.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Am 15.01.15 16:08, schrieb horrido:
As I've written elsewhere, I believe the TIOBE index is plain rubbish. Much of their rankings make no sense to me whatsoever.
Langpop.corger.nl <http://langpop.corger.nl/> is my "go to" website for language rankings. It's not perfect, but it makes a whole lot more sense to me.
Scala, Groovy, and Clojure are not "ultimate failures." Heck, they're doing at least as well as Go, my second favourite language of all time. (Go is red-hot in China. Go has an enviable set of "standard" libraries.) http://dtrace.org/blogs/wesolows/2014/12/29/golang-is-trash/
I agree that Java is our greatest foe. We are "300" against its Xerxes. That's why I am sanguine about Redline â we need it!
kilon.alios wrote
Lets see the big picture here, if you take a look at TIOBE INDEX or LANGPOP or the internet at large you get a clear picture about java based languages . Popularity wise they have been a ultimate failure. Right now the only language that is barely noticable is Scala and even Scala is nowhere near as popular as the less popular languages like Pascal, Delphi and Visual Basic. Of course each website gives diffirent numbers but those numbers are just different in only few percentage units.
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
Hype also does not help those languages either. Take a look at Clojure , one of the most overhyped languages out there not just on JVM but anywhere, in both websites I mentioned Clojure like Pharo does not make it even in top 50. Tons of blogs post about Clojure only, tons of praise, and praise and praise.
I can say about jython itself , a python implementation for the JVM and ironpython which is python for .NET are barely noticable in the python world with cpython gathering at least 99.9% of the attention.
So its a really hard situation . Coding has become extremely complex and demanding , coders want languages are deeply documented and come with tons of libraries so its very hard for new languages to kick in. Also the assumption that because you love a language you will be willing to start using java libraries seems to have failed miserably. These languages seem more appealing to java developers and java developers dont seem willing to abandon Java any time soon.
So as always Java death has been greatly exaggerated.
The situation for Javascript based languages is even worse.
So frankly what has happened with Redline is pretty normal.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Craig Latta < craig@ > wrote:
Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can also get you bitten. :) Sure, and shaking the hive too rarely will get you starved.
-C
-- Craig Latta netjam.org +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799716.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I wonder if it would make sense to add a "Smalltalk-talk" mailing list... I am sure ESUG could host that. On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Andreas Wacknitz <A.Wacknitz@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 15.01.15 16:08, schrieb horrido:
As I've written elsewhere, I believe the TIOBE index is plain rubbish. Much of their rankings make no sense to me whatsoever.
Langpop.corger.nl <http://langpop.corger.nl/> is my "go to" website for language rankings. It's not perfect, but it makes a whole lot more sense to me.
Scala, Groovy, and Clojure are not "ultimate failures." Heck, they're doing at least as well as Go, my second favourite language of all time. (Go is red-hot in China. Go has an enviable set of "standard" libraries.)
http://dtrace.org/blogs/wesolows/2014/12/29/golang-is-trash/
I agree that Java is our greatest foe. We are "300" against its Xerxes. That's why I am sanguine about Redline â we need it!
kilon.alios wrote
Lets see the big picture here, if you take a look at TIOBE INDEX or LANGPOP or the internet at large you get a clear picture about java based languages . Popularity wise they have been a ultimate failure. Right now the only language that is barely noticable is Scala and even Scala is nowhere near as popular as the less popular languages like Pascal, Delphi and Visual Basic. Of course each website gives diffirent numbers but those numbers are just different in only few percentage units.
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
Hype also does not help those languages either. Take a look at Clojure , one of the most overhyped languages out there not just on JVM but anywhere, in both websites I mentioned Clojure like Pharo does not make it even in top 50. Tons of blogs post about Clojure only, tons of praise, and praise and praise.
I can say about jython itself , a python implementation for the JVM and ironpython which is python for .NET are barely noticable in the python world with cpython gathering at least 99.9% of the attention.
So its a really hard situation . Coding has become extremely complex and demanding , coders want languages are deeply documented and come with tons of libraries so its very hard for new languages to kick in. Also the assumption that because you love a language you will be willing to start using java libraries seems to have failed miserably. These languages seem more appealing to java developers and java developers dont seem willing to abandon Java any time soon.
So as always Java death has been greatly exaggerated.
The situation for Javascript based languages is even worse.
So frankly what has happened with Redline is pretty normal.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Craig Latta < craig@ > wrote:
Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can
also get you bitten. :)
Sure, and shaking the hive too rarely will get you starved.
-C
-- Craig Latta netjam.org +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline- Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799716.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- -- Marcus Denker -- denker@acm.org http://www.marcusdenker.de
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker@inria.fr> wrote:
I wonder if it would make sense to add a "Smalltalk-talk" mailing list... I am sure ESUG could host that.
;-) There was a comp.smalltalk.advocacy groups in the old days of newsgroups, but nobody seems to use it anymore: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/comp.lang.smalltalk.advocacy Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/
Hi guys, Why I found this kind of discussion distracting is - 500 people * 10 seconds * 30 mails = too much - I do not want to lose time reading it - I do not want to feel the need to say some points when I stupid gross estimation or statements. - I want to get focus on getting impact right now on Pharo. So I think that I will start to ban some discussions from this mailing-lists. If auto regulation does not work, active policy will get a result. Stef
Hoi Stef--
I do not want to lose time reading it
I find I can get through the mailing list in a couple of minutes a day by reading via NNTP from Gmane, and killing threads I no longer find interesting. -C -- Craig Latta netjam.org +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
I use a normal webbrowser to read/follow it in combination with: http://lists.pharo.org is a real timesaver to go through the list/discussions. Access to a web browser is often quick to have and no e-mail tool can provide such a nice overview. Also the URL is easy to remember. Would be nice if the above entry page would not only link to pharo-dev, pharo-users and pharo business list but also also link to http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-bugtracker With this bugtracker archive one is also able to quickly get an overview what is currently in the pipe regarding the issues to solve/fixed/discussed A direkt link to the VM developer archive http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev would also be nice to have. Who cares about these lists/pages? Maybe we should have an info.pharo.org HTML page that links to the most usefull resources like twitter, blogs, mailinglists, ... Would be willing to contribute but do not know anything about - the infrastructure the pharo website are running on (box, webserver, etc) - who cares about the page - if it is maintained in git or elsewhere Bye T.
Gesendet: Samstag, 17. Januar 2015 um 11:18 Uhr Von: "Craig Latta" <craig@netjam.org> An: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk
Hoi Stef--
I do not want to lose time reading it
I find I can get through the mailing list in a couple of minutes a day by reading via NNTP from Gmane, and killing threads I no longer find interesting.
-C
-- Craig Latta netjam.org +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
Wesolows' opinion may or may not be valid, I don't know. But more importantly, I don't care. The *only* thing that matters to me is whether Go compiles quickly, executes quickly, and makes it easy to write my applications. The plumbing is irrelevant to me. As long as the Go team continues to improve the performance of the language (including the runtime), I shall support Go. As a life-long C programmer, I recognize that Go delivers a far superior experience. It's even better than Python, though admittedly I have much less experience with Python. Andreas Wacknitz wrote
Am 15.01.15 16:08, schrieb horrido:
As I've written elsewhere, I believe the TIOBE index is plain rubbish. Much of their rankings make no sense to me whatsoever.
Langpop.corger.nl <http://langpop.corger.nl/>; is my "go to" website for language rankings. It's not perfect, but it makes a whole lot more sense to me.
Scala, Groovy, and Clojure are not "ultimate failures." Heck, they're doing at least as well as Go, my second favourite language of all time. (Go is red-hot in China. Go has an enviable set of "standard" libraries.) http://dtrace.org/blogs/wesolows/2014/12/29/golang-is-trash/
I agree that Java is our greatest foe. We are "300" against its Xerxes. That's why I am sanguine about Redline â we need it!
kilon.alios wrote
Lets see the big picture here, if you take a look at TIOBE INDEX or LANGPOP or the internet at large you get a clear picture about java based languages . Popularity wise they have been a ultimate failure. Right now the only language that is barely noticable is Scala and even Scala is nowhere near as popular as the less popular languages like Pascal, Delphi and Visual Basic. Of course each website gives diffirent numbers but those numbers are just different in only few percentage units.
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
Hype also does not help those languages either. Take a look at Clojure , one of the most overhyped languages out there not just on JVM but anywhere, in both websites I mentioned Clojure like Pharo does not make it even in top 50. Tons of blogs post about Clojure only, tons of praise, and praise and praise.
I can say about jython itself , a python implementation for the JVM and ironpython which is python for .NET are barely noticable in the python world with cpython gathering at least 99.9% of the attention.
So its a really hard situation . Coding has become extremely complex and demanding , coders want languages are deeply documented and come with tons of libraries so its very hard for new languages to kick in. Also the assumption that because you love a language you will be willing to start using java libraries seems to have failed miserably. These languages seem more appealing to java developers and java developers dont seem willing to abandon Java any time soon.
So as always Java death has been greatly exaggerated.
The situation for Javascript based languages is even worse.
So frankly what has happened with Redline is pretty normal.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Craig Latta < craig@ > wrote:
Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can also get you bitten. :) Sure, and shaking the hive too rarely will get you starved.
-C
-- Craig Latta netjam.org +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799716.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799756.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
horrido wrote > Langpop.corger.nl <http://langpop.corger.nl/>
is my "go to" website for language rankings. It's not perfect, but it makes a whole lot more sense to me.
Maybe better than the garbage TIOBE, but suffers from the same problem - namely, that the greatest environments and communities least often force users to resort to a site like SO (see http://seandenigris.com/blog/?p=911). I get my questions answered by: exploring the image, reading a great free book, or asking on the mailing list (in that order). Of course, we have the additional "handicap" (score-wise) that so much of our code is stored outside of git. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799824.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Langpop.com was last updated in October of 2013. That's an eternity in our industry. I look forward to the Redmonk rankings later this month (they're done twice a year). I believe they're based on the same data as langpop.corger.nl, so you can get an early preview! Clojure gets tons of praise. That's why it has so much mindshare. /Hype works./ We need to build some hype for Smalltalk. kilon.alios wrote
Lets see the big picture here, if you take a look at TIOBE INDEX or LANGPOP or the internet at large you get a clear picture about java based languages . Popularity wise they have been a ultimate failure. Right now the only language that is barely noticable is Scala and even Scala is nowhere near as popular as the less popular languages like Pascal, Delphi and Visual Basic. Of course each website gives diffirent numbers but those numbers are just different in only few percentage units.
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
Hype also does not help those languages either. Take a look at Clojure , one of the most overhyped languages out there not just on JVM but anywhere, in both websites I mentioned Clojure like Pharo does not make it even in top 50. Tons of blogs post about Clojure only, tons of praise, and praise and praise.
I can say about jython itself , a python implementation for the JVM and ironpython which is python for .NET are barely noticable in the python world with cpython gathering at least 99.9% of the attention.
So its a really hard situation . Coding has become extremely complex and demanding , coders want languages are deeply documented and come with tons of libraries so its very hard for new languages to kick in. Also the assumption that because you love a language you will be willing to start using java libraries seems to have failed miserably. These languages seem more appealing to java developers and java developers dont seem willing to abandon Java any time soon.
So as always Java death has been greatly exaggerated.
The situation for Javascript based languages is even worse.
So frankly what has happened with Redline is pretty normal.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Craig Latta <
craig@
> wrote:
Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can also get you bitten. :)
Sure, and shaking the hive too rarely will get you starved.
-C
-- Craig Latta netjam.org +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799728.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:44 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote:
Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can also get you bitten. :)
And whatâs the news on that? The world is full of people paralysed by fear. Scared people is not worth following (they are not going to invent any interesting future). The ones who dear to do different are way more interesting.
+1 Lorenzo Da: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di Sebastian Sastre Inviato: giovedì 15 gennaio 2015 12:56 A: Pharo Development List Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-dev] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:44 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo@gmail.com> wrote: Shaking the hive can certainly have a positive outcome, but you can also get you bitten. :) And whatâs the news on that? The world is full of people paralysed by fear. Scared people is not worth following (they are not going to invent any interesting future). The ones who dear to do different are way more interesting.
I agree. I'm excited by Redline. We really do need a Smalltalk presence on the JVM. The JVM is the closest thing we have right now to a "standard" enterprise platform. (I guess I should mention .NET too, but I hate Windows lock-in.) Java is the strongest language here, but Scala, Groovy, and Clojure have some measure of success. sebastian@flowingconcept.com wrote
On Jan 14, 2015, at 9:29 PM, Craig Latta <
craig@
> wrote:
Hi Sven--
Nothing happened to this project in more than a year... It is mostly > vapourware and has no users. People following the links on the article will soon find out.
Well, perhaps this reminder will stimulate some interest.
totally +1
The guy only needs 4K and this gets to 1.0?
Weâre nutz if that doesnât happen
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799708.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Actually, Redline is quite alive. There's a brand new repo: https://github.com/jamesladd/stc <https://github.com/jamesladd/stc> James just hasn't gotten around to normalizing all the links at his website. Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
A blank.
Nothing happened to this project in more than a year
https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master
It is mostly vapourware and has no users.
People following the links on the article will soon find out.
Just sad.
On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <
horrido.hobbies@
> wrote:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma... <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma...;
Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799699.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Yes, it is very alive: 20 commits in year or so. Pharo 4 has about 1700 in about the same time (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core). And that is just one silly, inaccurate metric. My point is, there are a couple of great Smalltalk implementations that contain an incredible number of man-years of effort in their images (the best being Pharo of course, but I am biased ;-), we can only achieve a high quality platform by working together. The number of different competences needed to successfully build a *COMPLETE* software platform can *NEVER* be achieved by 'a couple of guys' let alone one individual. Now, it is not that they can not do so, of course they can, we need wild and crazy ideas and research, but it is just wrong to see such experiments as what should be promoted now. IMHO, of course.
On 15 Jan 2015, at 15:19, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually, Redline is quite alive. There's a brand new repo: https://github.com/jamesladd/stc <https://github.com/jamesladd/stc>
James just hasn't gotten around to normalizing all the links at his website.
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
A blank.
Nothing happened to this project in more than a year
https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master
It is mostly vapourware and has no users.
People following the links on the article will soon find out.
Just sad.
On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <
horrido.hobbies@
> wrote:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma... <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma...;
Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799699.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
There's no reason why we can't fight on several fronts. Pharo is great, but it ignores the JVM platform. Pharo is great, but we need Amber on the client side. I'm even hopeful about Essence# for .NET. It would be terrific if we can rally more contributors to the Redline project. Strategically, this is a very important project. I cannot emphasize this enough. Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
Yes, it is very alive: 20 commits in year or so.
Pharo 4 has about 1700 in about the same time (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core). And that is just one silly, inaccurate metric.
My point is, there are a couple of great Smalltalk implementations that contain an incredible number of man-years of effort in their images (the best being Pharo of course, but I am biased ;-), we can only achieve a high quality platform by working together. The number of different competences needed to successfully build a *COMPLETE* software platform can *NEVER* be achieved by 'a couple of guys' let alone one individual.
Now, it is not that they can not do so, of course they can, we need wild and crazy ideas and research, but it is just wrong to see such experiments as what should be promoted now.
IMHO, of course.
On 15 Jan 2015, at 15:19, horrido <
horrido.hobbies@
> wrote:
Actually, Redline is quite alive. There's a brand new repo: https://github.com/jamesladd/stc <https://github.com/jamesladd/stc>;
James just hasn't gotten around to normalizing all the links at his website.
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
A blank.
Nothing happened to this project in more than a year
https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master
It is mostly vapourware and has no users.
People following the links on the article will soon find out.
Just sad.
On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <
horrido.hobbies@
> wrote:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma... <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma...;
Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799699.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799719.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Well.. Iâve cared to talk with James before making this kind of assumptions or listening that sarcasm. Those 20 commits are in the stable repo, not dev so the commit race doesnât say much. Itâs not ready to big time promotion but turns out Redline Smalltalk development is doing fine in moving towards 1.0 and its plans of having one release per year.
On Jan 15, 2015, at 1:06 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
Yes, it is very alive: 20 commits in year or so.
Pharo 4 has about 1700 in about the same time (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core). And that is just one silly, inaccurate metric.
My point is, there are a couple of great Smalltalk implementations that contain an incredible number of man-years of effort in their images (the best being Pharo of course, but I am biased ;-), we can only achieve a high quality platform by working together. The number of different competences needed to successfully build a *COMPLETE* software platform can *NEVER* be achieved by 'a couple of guys' let alone one individual.
Now, it is not that they can not do so, of course they can, we need wild and crazy ideas and research, but it is just wrong to see such experiments as what should be promoted now.
IMHO, of course.
On 15 Jan 2015, at 15:19, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually, Redline is quite alive. There's a brand new repo: https://github.com/jamesladd/stc <https://github.com/jamesladd/stc>
James just hasn't gotten around to normalizing all the links at his website.
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
A blank.
Nothing happened to this project in more than a year
https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master
It is mostly vapourware and has no users.
People following the links on the article will soon find out.
Just sad.
On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <
horrido.hobbies@
> wrote:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma... <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma...;
Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799699.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
It is not sarcasm or a race. I was just pointing out the (obvious) fact that there is a huge difference in scale. (And even then, Pharo, being the most successful Smalltalk, is pretty small). And I was saying so in the context of the questions 'What should we promote ?' or 'Was it actually good or a success to have that mentioned in InfoWorld ?'. Now I am going back to work on Pharo.
On 15 Jan 2015, at 16:59, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian@flowingconcept.com> wrote:
Well.. Iâve cared to talk with James before making this kind of assumptions or listening that sarcasm.
Those 20 commits are in the stable repo, not dev so the commit race doesnât say much.
Itâs not ready to big time promotion but turns out Redline Smalltalk development is doing fine in moving towards 1.0 and its plans of having one release per year.
On Jan 15, 2015, at 1:06 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
Yes, it is very alive: 20 commits in year or so.
Pharo 4 has about 1700 in about the same time (https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core). And that is just one silly, inaccurate metric.
My point is, there are a couple of great Smalltalk implementations that contain an incredible number of man-years of effort in their images (the best being Pharo of course, but I am biased ;-), we can only achieve a high quality platform by working together. The number of different competences needed to successfully build a *COMPLETE* software platform can *NEVER* be achieved by 'a couple of guys' let alone one individual.
Now, it is not that they can not do so, of course they can, we need wild and crazy ideas and research, but it is just wrong to see such experiments as what should be promoted now.
IMHO, of course.
On 15 Jan 2015, at 15:19, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually, Redline is quite alive. There's a brand new repo: https://github.com/jamesladd/stc <https://github.com/jamesladd/stc>
James just hasn't gotten around to normalizing all the links at his website.
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
A blank.
Nothing happened to this project in more than a year
https://github.com/redline-smalltalk/redline-smalltalk/commits/master
It is mostly vapourware and has no users.
People following the links on the article will soon find out.
Just sad.
On 14 Jan 2015, at 23:40, horrido <
horrido.hobbies@
> wrote:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma... <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma...;
Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4799699.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
And James got pretty close to the goal of this campaign: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/redline-smalltalk-v1-0 <https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/redline-smalltalk-v1-0> Interestingly, being so close, a little bit of PR at the right time could have done a difference. Something to think about Congratulations for the mention Richard! totally earned
On Jan 14, 2015, at 8:40 PM, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma... <http://www.infoworld.com/article/2867543/java/redline-smalltalk-bridging-sma...>
Note the last paragraph. Our campaign will be noticed!
This is exactly what I was after when I started the SRP. Spread the word about the campaign as far and wide as I could.
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (13)
-
Andreas Wacknitz -
Craig Latta -
Esteban A. Maringolo -
horrido -
kilon alios -
Lorenzo Schiavina -
Marcus Denker -
Sean P. DeNigris -
Sebastian Sastre -
Serge Stinckwich -
stepharo -
Sven Van Caekenberghe -
Torsten Bergmann