Bill, This would be exactly the type of information that I would need, except that there is no trace of Metacello in the attached log ... In your mail, you implied that you had posted a small stack that was from a problem you had while using Metacello. The attached log has no trace of Metacello on the stack ... I don't have the time or patience to teach you how to develop in Smalltalk, but if you have specific issues with Metacello I am very interested in addressing them. You have been making statements about Metacello that, until I see an actual stack trace with Metacello on the stack, I will assume are unfounded, which is your prerogative. In the future if you have a stack trace with Metacello on the stack please submit a Metacello bug[1] with the stack trace included, otherwise I won't be paying attention, which is my prerogative. Dale [1] http://code.google.com/p/metacello/issues/entry ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 10:06:10 AM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins | | Dale, | | This might not be what you want. If not, please outline what I need | to do to get exactly what you need and I will do it to the best of | my ability. | | Attached is a debug log from a measured amount of the badness. The | huge one I mentioned had been building up over many experiments, and | it took me a while to notice same. Once I did, I deleted the log, | fiddled some more, and captured the attached zip file. | | Bill | | ________________________________________ | From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Dale | Henrichs [dhenrich@vmware.com] | Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 12:57 PM | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins | | Bill, | | I guess I missed the Metacello stack and I can't seem to find it... | if you could point me to the post with your Metacello stack in it I | will be glad to take a loook. | | Dale | | ----- Original Message ----- | | From: "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> | | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | | Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 2:21:30 AM | | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins | | | | Dale, | | | | I'm not "complaining," I'm stating facts and asking for advice. | | Not | | only did I state that I produced a "big" debug log, I also POSTED a | | smaller one. If you mean something different by a "stack trace," | | can you provide some instructions for how to obtain it? | | | | As for "continuing beyond errors" - AFAIK, *I* am not saving the | | image in a confused state, but *something* appears to be doing just | | that. Yes, I "ignored errors" in the sense that I used the task | | manager to kill off an image that was flailing trying to download | | packages, and was mystified to discover that, without an explicit | | save on my part, the image "woke up" trying to do the same | | fruitless | | exercise. Several iterations of trying to unravel that led to the | | large log. I then removed the log, did one cycle, and posted the | | log from that. | | | | Bill | | | | | | | | | | ________________________________________ | | From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | | [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Dale | | Henrichs [dhenrich@vmware.com] | | Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:33 PM | | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins | | | | Bill, | | | | The last time you complained about Metacello being broken I asked | | you | | for a stack trace and I have seen no stack trace, although I | | believe | | that you were able to confirm that Metacello worked fine until you | | loaded some of your own code into the system ... | | | | Here you are complaining again ... if you don't provide specifics, | | the issues cannot be resolved ... | | | | There are apparently a lot of moving parts in your system, so it | | takes great attention to detail to get such a system running | | smoothly. The fact that you don't provide specifics tells me that | | perhaps you are not paying attention to the details ... | | | | When you are porting to a new environment (for you) like Pharo 1.4, | | you should stop and isolate the FIRST ERROR that you encounter ... | | in a complicated system once an error occurs, all bets are off ... | | You MUST pay attention to details ... | | | | You state that you have a giant debug log ... so it sounds like you | | tried to keep moving forward in the face of initial errors...I say | | good luck with that approach! | | | | If you post a Metacello stack trace I can very likely tell you what | | went wrong, if you prefer to continue to whine and complain about | | Metacello without even attempting to help me characterize the | | issues, then I will leave you to your own devices and you can can | | complain about Metacello all you want --- I won't be paying | | attention any more:) | | | | Dale | | | | | | ----- Original Message ----- | | | From: "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu> | | | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | | | Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2012 4:26:27 PM | | | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins | | | | | | I think you might be right about loading the .mcz files. But I | | | don't | | | have an expectation other than what has been said here many | | | times: | | | that Metacello is the future. So far, I don't see it. | | | | | | Bill | | | | | | | | | ________________________________________ | | | From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr | | | [pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Yanni | | | Chiu [yanni@rogers.com] | | | Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 6:22 PM | | | To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | | | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins | | | | | | On 09/02/12 5:39 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: | | | > Sven, | | | > | | | > Fair enough, but the game plan is for people to use Metacello | | | > configurations to load what they need to build an image. I am | | | > attempting to do just that, and am reporting (rather negative | | | > so | | | > far) experience, with debug logs. | | | > | | | > Pharo's fault or not, something is broken. But if Pharo is | | | > going | | | > to send users into the current state of Metacello, the weather | | | > around the lighthouse is going to be grim. | | | > | | | > Interesting ideas about the package cache being damaged. Maybe | | | > the | | | > logs will reveal something?? | | | | | | You might want to check the package cache for 0-length .mcz | | | files, | | | which | | | might happen when the server is down. | | | | | | When I upgrade to a new image version, I just start my build | | | process | | | with the new image, and cross my fingers. If it fails, then I do | | | it | | | manually with the build script in a workspace - select each | | | framework/package and "doIt". Sometimes I run the framework's | | | tests, | | | after each step. | | | | | | I load all "community" code first, unless I have extensions to | | | this | | | code. Sometimes I've had to upgrade to a newer version of the | | | framework, | | | if available. At other times, I had to create patches because I | | | was | | | tracking the Pharo updates (so no fixed version was available | | | yet). | | | | | | In extreme cases, I've had to generate the list of packages that | | | Metacello would load, then load each .mcz individually. | | | | | | Typically, I'd do "save image as" at various points, to be able | | | to | | | get | | | back to the problem code, more quickly. | | | | | | I think you're pretty much following a similar process, except | | | the | | | expectation that a Metacello configuration should just load | | | without | | | problems on Pharo1.4-unstable is too optimistic. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |