lot of time ago we decided *not* to pretend imitate any OS L&F, because is first a lot of work, and second a lose of time: they do not fit, and if you want to make them fit for real you need to spend *really* much time there (and you probably will fail anyway). Themes remained there without being maintained and they started to break. As no one uses it, no one noticed :) So we started to remove them. Now⦠I would like to not just remove anything, but to move them to a graveyard, where it can be revived by any necromancer who wants to give them a try. We need to improve there. w2k theme was⦠old. Didnât fit with any current L&F, not windows either. So, if you used the w2k theme just because of the icons (and also⦠I have to say it: windows and mac *is not* the same: windows is plenty of home-made L&F that does not respect any design rule⦠mac is not like that). But well, coming back: if you want that old theme just for the icons, I just recommend you to take current theme and modify it to have the icons where you want (should not be so difficult). In the long term, it will be a lot more maintainable :) cheers, Esteban
On 03 Apr 2015, at 16:07, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:
On 03 Apr 2015, at 15:57, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> wrote:
Date: 3 Apr 2015 15:53:56 CEST From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean@yahoo.com> Reply-To: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean@yahoo.com> To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions
Kilon,
I can perfectly understand that "not everything has to be in the image" and that, ultimately, someone has to maintain that code. The only problem I have with the removal of that theme is that more than 55% of users are running some flavor of Windows. It's not as if someone would ask for an OS/2 or a Motif UI theme! There are *LOTS* of people on Windows still !
There is no such thing as *one* Windows look (or version), there are many:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows#Usage_share
We simply cannot maintain them, nor do we want to.
Note that we do not maintain any other platform specific look&feels.
----------------- Benoit St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Twitter: @BenLeChialeux Pinterest: benoitstjean IRC: lamneth Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein)
From: kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions
"The point is, every piece of code needs to be written and maintained which takes time and energy from other activities."
I completely agree with you. I have zero issues of main pharo developers kicking out libraries that are not so much used by pharo users. Those libraries are perfectly capable of existing as third party.
I also love the plan to make pharo modular, remove libraries from inside and make it easy to install. This way each one of us can easily make an image tailor made for his/her needs. Each pharo user is an individual with individual needs.
Installing libraries is dead easy with the Configuration Browser , including their dependencies , just one click away.
Of course that leaves whos going to maintain that stuff. I agree with Marcus here, "you want it in pharo , code it".The theme support in Pharo is very powerful , I know because I created my own custom blue theme and a tool to allow easy customization of theme colors with zero coding (Nireas). I expected that by now Nireas would be replaced by another way more powerful theme manager but it has not. Why ? Not because my theme manager is very good, but because the community is just too small. I love using my blue theme and fits perfect to my taste and needs ;)
In the end no code can be more personal than the code you create.
There is no need for everything to exist inside the image , great things can exist outside too. All it needs people who really care about pharo by coding for it.