2009/9/20 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>:
Sig,
The term "bus factor" arose from legitimate concerns to be sure, but let's not start predicting Pharo's downfall just yet. Â At the rate things are progressing, it will become a formidable system. Â With a sound foundation, innovation will be possible without sweeping change to the system itself. Â If at some point it falls into the wrong hands, one could always branch off from a stable release and be happy for a very long time.
I do not agree. No matter how well , sound, formiddable the system are. There are always a chance that you miss something, and someone will find something better. The risks i outlined in previous post is not related to the quality of software, these risks are lying in social plane, rather than technical. If you need a stable, countinuously progressing system, first thing you need is a stable community with clear vision what goals are. But when community grows exponentially, and if it happens that at some point you got a weak leadership, wrong things start happening. Just because the probability of it is higher than before :)
Who is asking for backward-compatibility? Â Is it the Squeak community, or Pharo users?
Ask the same question after 5-10 years :)
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 1:44 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Status of Alien FFI
2009/9/20 Marcus Denker <denker@acm.org>:
On 20.09.2009, at 13:49, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
They probably moved while we got stuck.
It's like with money: there is an "inflation" of constant progression. Everthing gets better slowly but constantly. Over 10 years, this results in quite some progress.
Especially as you get the effect of "compound interest": By making something a little bit better, the next step of making it again a little bit better gets a little bit easier.
As with compound interest, the effect is non-linear and completely against human intuition.
This is all the story behind pharo: moving again.
What one needs to ask is always: How great could a system be over time if one would just do the next trivial, tiny, small step? And that over 10 years? With Squeak, this was impossible. Every small improvement was directly criticised as beeing "not good enough" and thus not worthwile for Squeak. With that attitude you go nowhere. As was proven in 10 years with Squeak.
Of course, you should not *just* do tiny improvements. But it's like investing: there might be the chance to buy some pre-ipo stock cheap in the future. Does that mean that I put the money under the bed for no interest, or do I invest it for some tiny percentage e.g in a money-market account the meantime? With Squeak, the community decided that doing nothing was the right thing.
    Marcus
(wearing a devil's advocate hat)
I fear that Pharo, at some day could repeat the fate of Squeak. At version 2.0, 3.0 or whatever, you will lose interest (for whatever reason) in supporting it and step down from leading the project, as well as other current developers. The people who will lead it next will have a bit less authority to change anything, and there already will be a certain 'backwards compatibility' pressure from community. Also, much more people will not feel so confident in new leaders comparing to you, simply because they could not know much about them, or because they are not founders etc etc. In this situation, if someone will raise a hand, and say - lets throw out X, and replace it with Y, because its better, will have a high chances to be burned out.
(wearing off a devil's advocate hat)
I hope that there are a good strategy behind activities in Pharo, to not let the progress slowdown. And if not, then it is right time to think about it.
-- Marcus Denker - http://marcusdenker.de PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
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-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
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