All the compilation chain and code management and manipulation tools should be able to work on remote environment. We already discussed and I do not have the time to explain that the design of john was not taking into account that we would like to be able to work with one tool on another environment. The Browser environment = the complete code in the image does not work anymore. Anyway you do not want to change and this is perfect. It is just raging that I do not have enough time to fix it. Now we will see in 1.4 if people want to still use 1.3 or if they have benefit to work with 1.4. We integrated RB because we need to be able to move forward. It would be easy to have two configurations one for 1.3 and one for 1.4 but since you do not want to maintain it when you change your versions then we have to spend more time and frustration but we will do it. I spent a full day the last time while it would have cost you may be 10 min but I have no problem with that since the only thing I can do is to do it, I will do it. We will continue to work and push pharo and people can continue to use it or not. We know where we want to go and we will take responsibility and probably it will burn a bit more of our energy but there is no other paths sadly. Stef On Dec 11, 2011, at 4:42 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
This is important for us to know that and this is a really nice stab in our back and this will kill a lot of the effort we build over the years.
I don't understand why you think this is a stab into your back? I have repeated the same concerns over and over again.
Now how can we make progress if we do not change Pharo?
Again, we already discussed this many times. I think Pharo is totally off the track: Pharo should concentrate on getting a stable core and enabling distributions on top, not on integrating as much new things as possible.
May be a dead pharo is better for you.
A dead Pharo is not my goal. I need a minimal Pharo with an absolutely trusted and stable core; a system where I can load all my code; a system that does not force me to use things I don't want to use.
@Lukas: please, could you point out what are the expected problems? For example, all PetitParser-Tests are green out of the box in the latest 1.4.
Nice, maybe the others also just work?
OB does not work though because Polymorph changed (and the debugger doesn't even open in the UI thread anymore either, so it is not possible to figure out the problem); and because it expects a different version of RB.
You were against changing RB, so how can we do remote tooling?
I was against chaining RB, because the proposed changes undermined design decisions in RB. In general, it feels extremely strange to me if people change code (or even class comments) without understanding the code.
Also, for that matter, I don't see how you want to use RB for remote tooling? If you remember, I pointed out an interview a while ago with John where they discuss why remote tooling wouldn't work without rewriting most parts.
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch