El dom, 09-08-2009 a las 21:01 +0100, Keith Hodges escribió:
Keith Hodges wrote:
Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Hi,
I really think we need a package management system and a process to maintain it.
The goal is that loading and using non-core packages "just works" Same goal as for Sake/Packages, and it works for me.
(unlike for instance SqueakMap, where loading more often fails than succeeds because there are a lot of obsolete packages and a dependency mechanism is missing).
- There should be a responsible maintainer for each package
Not a realistic proposition. Better to be open to all to maintain on behalf of the community.
Why not, the debian project use this model since 1996 or something like that. The same package system the use report packages not maintained anymore (orphans and waiting for mantainer)
- For each package there should be a known way to discuss and report problems
That's just arbitrary metadata in the package definition, for more general topics we use the packages@squeakfoundation.org mailing list
- A gate keeper includes and removes packages from the set depending on their status
Probably too complicated to be practical.
This limits the set of included packages (at least initially) but would increase the quality and hence the user experience.
Maybe there could be two sets, a stable and an unstable set. New
Sake/Packages supports a stable and a beta release of each package.
packages would first go to the unstable set and then move up to the stable set after a while.
An automated build process could load packages into new builds and report the result of the tests.
Bob does that.
The package management system does not need to be very sophisticated,
Sake is as simple as possible for defining actions with dependencies.
but it should manage dependencies and have a simple GUI (to search for packages and see what is already loaded).
Sake/Packages uses the class browser as is, no extra GUI is required.
Packages provided explore
shows you what is loaded, and this should be merged into PackageOrganization.
Keith
Keith, it really appear that you have built the platform to bring this dream a reality, but somehow (the details are not relevant now) you haven't materialized a "steve jobs" kind of show off of it. I believe your words, based on your other projects that I use. What do you need, as Stephan said, to bring a complete, working, and as simple to understand for all of us of your tools. This is my proposal: I think that if you can put a working example (minimal, a couple of packages, and the core) using Pharo, the pharo community happily will support you. No more fights, no more angry mails, just the working full simple demo. I offer to you access to a server with a homologated IP to install (I can help you here too) to setup the repositories to test your tools. If the community agree to use your tools and process I can also buy and donate the domain to host this infrastructure. In the beginning I will host it, if someday it grows more than I can support (bandwidth mainly, the space isn't problem) then we will discuss with the community to migrate the repos to a bigger servers or to ask for donations or some other party that can host it (maybe the folks of seasidehosting). We'll see in that moment. But, Keith, we need to see to believe and support you. Indeed, Pharo needs a real proccess to not get to the same point that squeak. Cheers, Miguel Cobá
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