Igor I think that this is too early. Let us deliver something first and see. I want to see what we can really do. Can we create a community of doers? Can we create wealth and a cool community? Then some people can see how we can merge and if this makes sense Stef
2. Take some decisive action and "merge" the two in some *smart* way beneficial to both. Impossible? I hope not.
3. Just kill off squeak.org. A mercy kill :). Then people could move over to Pharo without having to think about it - there is no other "Squeak".
Eh, well, my analysis is probably full of silly holes here. Looking at the above, 1 and 3 feels less nice. So how could a "merge" look that would be attractive to *both* camps? I call the theoretical merged project Phreak below (but I am not proposing name changes etc, but I need a name to use in the text).
Pharo characteristics:
- A small "benevolent dictator" board. Lots of action, less talk. - Has a very clear stated "direction". - Has a website using CMSBox. - Uses Google code for issue tracker and wiki. - Has Mailman mailinglists and downloads at gforge.inria.fr (I think)
Squeak.org org characteristics:
- Has an elected SOB, an election process and a Team model. The jury is still out I think, we seem to have lots of trouble "getting shit done". - Has very little stated "direction" at the moment. - Has a website using Swazoo. - Uses Mantis, Swiki, file archive and Mailman on a community paid Hetzner server.
Now... why would Squeak.org want to merge with Pharo?
Pros: Get momentum back. 1 + 1 = 2. A revitalization. Very important!
Cons: The SOB & Team model would probably have to be dropped. The work made since Pharo forked may or may not be a "lost cause", that depends on if Phreak is interested in utilizing that work. Other cons?
...and Pharo?
Pros: An influx of developers. A much stronger position as Phreak would be Squeak + Pharo. No "compatibility" to worry about, Squeak is out of the picture.
Cons: Some people in Pharo may perceive such a merge as dangerous since they might be afraid that certain aspects of Squeak.org (that Pharo was created in order to escape from) is coming back "knocking on the door".
I personally don't think there is such a danger if Phreak simply adopts the simple organisation of Pharo (with board and all) BUT... since it would make the Pharo community much *larger* the effects of that growth need to be taken into account. But Pharo should not fear growth, because that would be an odd position.
How could a merge be done practically? I really don't know :). And I must stop typing now, this post is waaaaay to long anyway and I have probably stepped on too many toes already.
Hello Goran. You are definitely didn't stepped on any of my toes/toys. And i would certainly sacrifice my SOB membership (if this is a sacrifice), to see things moving & progressing as fast as they do in Pharo. As many others, i eagier to see the squeak/pharo/phreak shining - make it cool & modern software. The rest of things is barely bothering me.
What i like in Pharo, that they make decisions on strictly technical basis - no politics. If code is good - it candidate to be included. If code stinks - its a candidate to be excluded. Simple concept :)
For anyone, interested in my opinion: i would put a huge +1 for a merge on a Pharoer's conditions.
regards, Göran
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-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
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