On 17 January 2012 20:16, Andreas Wacknitz <a.wacknitz@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 17.01.2012 um 13:26 schrieb Frank Shearar:
On 17 January 2012 03:20, blake <dsblakewatson@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
Frank,
I agree with what you said EXCEPT that I don't see the NIH mentality in Smalltalk. What I do see, and have seen a lot of over the years, is people coming in and banging on Smalltalk's differences without taking the time to learn the whys and wherefores. I don't think it's knee-jerk defense so much as a creeping sense that the person complaining maybe isn't in the best position to do so. (And I say this as someone who's been on several sides of the argument.)
I'm aware of the reasons why the NIH arises, and I'm sure that's part of why the reaction arises in many other communities. I reserve the right to say "ahem, take the time to actually read what the person's asking for, because they might actually have good ideas".
And, in particular, Gerry raises concerns _this very list_ has raised. Living permanently in the image is _bad_, which is why we're moving to Metacello for everything so we can _construct_ an image. Look at There is a big difference between rescuing artifacts outside the image for distribution, reuse and storage and working outside the image. I would like to be able to remotely debug Smalltalk but not for the price of giving up what we already have. For me there is a big advantage to have the "living objects world". There might be alternatives to the image concept in order to have it. But Eclipse, NetBeans, Emacs, vi and Visual Studio don't provide anything better. Each these IDE's are in itself bigger and more complex than Pharo. These IDE's provide tools to deal with big muds of dead code - quite the opposite of a "living objects world".
Emacs + SLIME = image-based, interactive development. As image-based as you'd like, at least. Eclipse + Cusp = image-based development: you're connecting to a running Common Lisp image, which you can snapshot and restore any time you like (just like choosing to work in a built image or in a persistent one). IDE and "living world" are orthogonal concerns. frank frank