Hi all. Just some raw ideas below. It several months I haven't coded in pharo. And I really miss it. Meanwhile I've been lurking in iOS and recently meteor. I think the latter is great. We might take ideas from it... But it has to be adapted to the smalltalk way. What I find great: - reactive data and DDP is great to me => we need an equivalent tech. Sure it's a piece of cake for Sven :-) => having standard data storage as files/nosql/gemstone working out of the box => controled replication of data on client to avoid latency is a very good idea too to me - smart package are cool too => st and js have already a close relationship, we should enforce and simplify it as with C One killer app would be to have bridges to meteor BUT I would dream of an inspired version of/for Pharo. Meteor core language is js + css + mongo + lots of conventions. It's a full stack. Problem of meteor: no live debugging sessions (whereas it seems live!) and whereas it seems damn simple (3 files), it has hundreds of MB hidden for each installed apps ! I would see mini pharo images (without UI) acting as web client/server interchangabily. A separate data layer (probably an image too) with full access on the server and controlled replication on clients. Then a connection with a classic pharo image to develop/debug the mini images. Just some cents. I know this is quite naive and not easy to do... But we might take some inspiration: -DDP (easy for Sven) :-) -grid style client/server easy setup/deployment/control for casual developers ... Cheers, Cedrick
Le 17 mai 2014 à 13:13, kilon alios <kilon.alios@gmail.com> a écrit :
I don't get why C is not old / deprecated / obsolete . Afterall its as old as Smalltalk
Who really uses modern languages ?
C - 1972
Python - 1991
C++ - 1983
Pascal - 1970
.NET - 2002
Lisp - 1958
Java - 1995
Ruby - 1995
Perl - 1987
Visual Basic - 1991
Javascript - 1995
Objective C- 1983
PHP - 1995
The vast majority of all popular languages out there are at least 20 years old. Thats ancient history. They are not old, they are dinosaurs. Even Clojure is 7 years old.
The problem I see here is that the vast majority of things people are going to like in Pharo on a basic level are Smalltalk features. Implementation wise Pharo has improved a lot of things, added new stuff etc etc. But if you take a look at for example Python back in 1991 and you compare it with a recent version of Python you will find tons of diffirences. Yet its still Python.
Actually its impossible to run a hello world of an old python (anything previous to version 3) that will run in the recent Python. Cause they changed print "hello World" to print( "hello World") , we are talking here about fundamental changes.
Personally I don't see how Pharo being 100% Smalltalk makes it unable or difficult to implement super modern and efficient new features. Languages and Software is not written in stone, it continuously evolves and improves or else people stop using it. Vim was created back in 1991 people still find awesome, modern, extremely powerful.
this is from Ruby's website -> "Ruby is a language of careful balance. Its creator, Yukihiro âMatzâ Matsumoto, blended parts of his favorite languages (Perl, Smalltalk, Eiffel, Ada, and Lisp) to form a new language that balanced functional programming with imperative programming." Ruby has the right to be called Smalltalk-inspired. because thats what it is.
You got every right to describe Pharo any way you like but for me Pharo is "a modern implementation of Smalltalk. A visual environment for easy direct live coding" .
On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Hilaire Fernandes <hilaire.fernandes@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 16/05/2014 20:18, phil@highoctane.be a écrit :
Back to the future after 30 years of spinning your wheels -------------------------------------------------------------------
Wanting to code at the speed of tought? Wishing the machine was your friend and not a roadblock? Want to burn cash as slow as possible while maximizing your output?
If so, get a copy of Pharo! It is not your (grand) daddy's Smalltalk!
That's why I understand this argument about not advertising Smalltalk in Pharo.
Whatever we do or say, this huge mass of followers, once they heard Smalltalk they fill their head with red light warning, Smalltalk = old/deprecated/obsolete.
For Pharo willing to socially scale = need to take this in consideration.
Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu