Igor, Looks cool, but I really would like to know the exact difference to Exupery? For what I understand NativeBoost is no different to Exupery's low-level code generation infrastructure. Check out the Exupery documentation: <http://goran.krampe.se/exuperyDesign.pdf>. Some more questions about NativeBoost: - How do I send a message? - How do I evaluate a block passed as argument? - How do I access the VM state? Lukas On 26 April 2010 09:38, Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com> wrote:
On 26 April 2010 08:41, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
On Apr 26, 2010, at 12:06 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote:
Stef,
I have read that Alien is not very good at calling functions - I have *no* idea whether that is fair, but we should check before adopting it. Â If it is indeed poor at them, I recommend using FFI until we or its maintainers can fix Alien.
there are no such alien maintainers. There are us.
Innndeeeddd :)
Besides, i plan to support callbacks in NativeBoost, so, you'll be able to handle callback without entering the interpreter & language-side (as well as entering - at your will ;). Handling a callbacks natively is waaay much faster than go all the way through calling interpret(), especially, when you need to do something very simple, like count bunnies :) So, Alien could use a NativeBoost as extension to do things faster, smoother & nicer :)
Also, whatever we include should work on windows, mac and Linux. Â Alien seems to be getting close to read on Linux, but Laurent reported ugly crashes when trying to actually run it. Â That would not be good for a supported platform.
Bill
-----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:05 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI in 1.1
Probably. There were some discussions that alien will be integrated / working also for the windows vm. So we will see which one I will let people with more experience telling that to us.
Stef
On Apr 25, 2010, at 9:26 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse@inria.fr> wrote:
yes communication with C library. so this is just a tool too.
Exactly. It is a tool. Not a dev tool in my opinion.In such way, Â SqueakDBX is also a tool. A tool to persist in a relational database.
Mariano FFI/ALIEN is ***REALLY*** important to get the possibility to call and write code in smalltalk as mentioned by john so this is more central (closer to core) than openDBX or refactoring browser. Look at lua... why lua is cool because he can be embeded seamlessly in C and call C. So if we do not put pressure on FFI to support callback well or ALIEN then we will stay this language that has problem to interact with the outside world. This is why having FFI in pharo-dev is important. We should be able to call mac native menu. Of course we should pay attention that we rely too much on C library but the world is getting more complex and writing everything in smalltalk is also costly. Not FFI/ALIEN can reduce our dependency to C compilation and C-writing so this is already an important step. Am I clear?
Yes, and I agree. However, that was not the discussion. I agree FFI is important. I don't care to add it to PharoDev 1.1 if you agree with that. But I STILL think and that's what I was discussing in the last mail, is that FFI is NOT A DEV TOOL for me. Anyway...forget this little discussion.
In summary, should I add FFI when I start to build PharoDev 1.1 ?
Cheers
Mariano
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