Damien, I saw and replied to Victor's invitation first, so we should probably just wait for him to do it. Thanks! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029
damien.cassou@gmail.com 06/07/08 2:18 PM >>> Just send me your google email address and I will add you.
On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Bill Schwab <BSchwab@anest.ufl.edu> wrote:
Stef,
I appear to have a working google account, and it seems willing to let me add comments to wiki pages. Is there more to do to enable me to edit?
Bill
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029
stephane.ducasse@inria.fr 6/6/2008 1:53:17 PM >>> Yes bill I think that this is important that we get one page with the
proposal because we should find a way to make progress. May be with a stream factory or other method names as you suggest (if
I understand correctly) This is important that we do not lose the ideas and proposal.
Stef
On Jun 6, 2008, at 6:49 PM, Victor Rodriguez wrote:
On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Bill Schwab <BSchwab@anest.ufl.edu>
wrote:
Lukas,
Re "I hope that we do not have to implement our own stream hierarchy as well."
I do not intend to be confrontational, but you are over-reacting. Nothing I am proposing would force you to create a stream hierarchy. Worry not, as I do not see my proposal being accepted anyway. I will simply add protocol that meets my needs, convert to it, and move on.
Perhaps the Pharo project is not yet ready for your proposal, with so many things yet to be done, but who knows what might happen in the future? What about documenting your proposal in the wiki?
Best Regards,
Victor Rodriguez.
If by your proposal, you mean relying on a default action to preserve behavior, that is not a solution. The whole point of exceptions is
to fail loudly vs. (potentially) passing garbage into code that might or might not recognize what happened. The default action makes it too
easy to miss. The very thing that keeps you happy subjects my customers
to risk that I consider to be unacceptable, especially given that there are simple (if tedious) solutions that will avoid the problem.
My particular RB limitations are based on what is built into Dolphin, and an old version at that. I need to see what Damien has on offer. My understanding is that the "comment abuse" is greatly reduced relative to what I have experienced. Failing that, there are other text- processing methods.
Bill
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029
renggli@gmail.com 06/06/08 9:13 AM >>> The changes I propose would be almost trivial for them to adopt, and might actually make their lives easier in targeting Dolphin, should they wish to do so.
Yes, I agree. The rewrite engine can fix all these things.
All arguments in favor of preserving current behavior have been based on backward compatibility - nothing on merits.
I am only saying that keeping things backward compatible in critical position makes everything easier. Frankly, I like the solution I proposed and that apparently other people have thought out as well. You can use both semantics, depending on what makes more sense in your context. And best of all, it does not break existing code. I am missing a reason why Alan Knight think this solution is not good.
or Seaside, I would certainly keep Seaside going, though I suspect the Seaside developers would accomodate us in trying to align the dialects.
We never forced anybody to align their dialect. If possible, we always changed our own code. We introduced compatibility layers that porters can fill or we simply built our own classes. I hope that we do not have to implement our own stream hierarchy as well.
[*] I assume that I will write Dolphin code to export something that Pharo can load. If any of you know of a good solution to that problem, please let me know. In case you are wondering why the renaming is all done in Pharo, it is because it hopefully does a better job of leaving formatting in tact - D5's version of the RB is fairly hostile in that regard.
The rewrite engine in Squeak/Pharo reformats all code it touches. VisualWorks has some improvements in that area. I discussed with John Brant and he said that these improvements are part of the open-source refactoring browser, however the problem is that Cincom modified the code and that the original improvements are not part of the download on John's website. Therefor it is not clear, what code is clean and what code is commercial.
Cheers, Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
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