Live coding as experienced in pharo is really superior. It changes everything about how to think about programming. And I am a vi freak lets me tell you. Philippe Back 0478 650 140 Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com> a écrit : On 8 October 2012 21:03, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 October 2012 19:22, Igor Stasenko <siguctua@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 October 2012 20:08, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 October 2012 19:02, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 October 2012 18:31, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Oscar E A Callaú < oalvarez@dcc.uchile.cl> wrote:
I'm using Aquamacs (mac UI for emacs) as my default editor. But I have a problem, when trying to read a .st file, I don't get the syntax highlighting (so all is black-&-white). How I can solve this issue?
Pharo/Smalltalk is not meant to be coded in Emacs, you have to use Pharo currently (that may change in the future).
For shame, Damien. Why is Smalltalk not meant to be coded in a text editor? It is text, after all. Next thing you'll suggest that one shouldn't use git to store one's code.
Alright, OK, I wrote that with at least 50% troll in the mix. (*) There's no reason why one shouldn't be able to use standard text manipulation techniques to hack on Smalltalk code. We simply never bothered doing so, and I dare say that the majority of people on this list are happy not supporting text-using tools.
(*) OK, OK, 75%.
Being told so many times.. People still keep missing the point. Smalltalk is not just source code it is environment of live objects. Good luck manipulating live objects in emacs.
Please show me a live object in a Browser. Please. No, not a textual representation of a computation. Oh, that's right, you are STILL writing source code prior to compiling. Fail.
Oh come on, do you know that navigating code made by talking to live objects, not searching through whole source text, then doing static analysis (like some IDEs doing)? If you using browser only for typing, then you Fail.
It is , of course up to you, If you prefer to code in stone age. I, personally cannot code outside image, without browser , debugger and such..
That's a strawman. I WANT a debugger, I WANT inspectors. I also WANT a proper top level syntax and the ability to use the thousands of tools that everyone else in the WHOLE WORLD takes for granted. OK, I've exceeded my capital letter quota for the day. (Also, clearly you've never used SLIME. I know this because SLIME lets you do everything you could want to, because it queries a real live running system to get its information. And guess how the Lispers store their source code? In text files, in git.
Yes. I never used SLIME. I even don't know what is it. If you think it is far superior to what we have in pharo, please feel free to open our eyes, and direct us towards better system.
I have seen zero reason in my, er, 13 years of Smalltalk, why we shouldn't enter source code in a proper text editor, with source properly stored in files on a disk. Yes, I want to live inside a running system as much as possible - not all the time, not being forced to do so because we lack the tools - but as much as possible. But source code is not a live object, it is text. And text should be munged by text tools, and stored in text files, and kept in a text-friendly source control system.
In 13 years, you had plenty of time to change things to meet your demands. Instead, you chosen path of complaining.. you make me laugh :) I can tell you more: things which you miss would be done long ago, if they would be needed so badly. But reality is that they are not.
What else do you think bootstrapping is all about? It's taking some tiny system, and making a recipe to lift that bootstrap, and that recipe is not a living object, it is a specification, and it's written in text.
This is orthogonal.
Smalltalk is wonderful, and the reason I still hack in it is because I can find nothing else that comes close to its sense of aliveness and engagement, and I nearly cry when I see the community reject things because of some strange ideology with the result that we end up lost in the dark.
Defend your view, find allies, communicate. Contribute your code. And one day you will awake having much better system. Or, if you think we moving into wrong direction, and nothing can help, you can always start own fork (like Juan did with Cuis) and fix things there to meet your standards. Sitting and crying is not a solution.
Anyway. When I have something to show, I'll talk more on this topic.
frank
frank
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.