You guys didn't ask what I think about this either :) Native windows are not the panacea that many believe them to be. My most intense GUI in Dolphin uses a fair amount of emulation to obtain adequate performance. However, the problem (AFAIK) arises only when creating large numbers of widgets, e.g. the cells of a spreadsheet. I think our goal should be to offer a good emulated widget framework AND to use native windows for the various tool shells. A useful transition would be to use native shells with the current Polymorph widgets inside of each shell. The concept of "the" desktop (world menu) will disappear, and the current approach to startup/shutdown will be revealed to be as broken as it is. Toolshells will need menus and/or toolbars (hopefully with tasteful and compact, fixed-size buttons). Once those things are sorted, we could begin to convert the various tools to native widgets, if we even care to do so. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 7:52 AM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo for Professional Development On Fri, 18 Dec 2009, George Herolyants wrote:
2009/12/18 Michael Rueger <m.rueger@acm.org>:
Henrik Johansen wrote:
Interestingly enough a lot of the (complex) multiple native window applications have (gone back to) all in one window UIs (Eclipse, all of the Adobe products, ...).
Yeah! That's true. And their look&feel may differ from the underlying os. And everyone uses them without complaining. So what's wrong with pharo? Maybe one of the weak points is that it simulates windowing system inside another one, when other applications (Eclipse, Netbeans...) have strongly defined layout (though customizable)? I think it's a real issue. Pharo Development Environment is *Integrated* but the UI still lacks this integration in some places, IMHO.
But I think multiple windows in the meaning of what for example firefox has will be helpful as well. I mean two or more usual pharo windows "connected" to the same image. Is that possible?
HostWindowPlugin is available: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3862
And native basic dialogs may be helpful too, to not reinvent the wheel (aka FileBrowser :).
At first sight this idea seems to be cool, but it's not. FileBrowser is not a "reinvented wheel", it's really useful in a closed environments like smalltalk. FileBrowser has the same features on all platforms while native dialogs don't. Some platforms don't even have a graphical UI, would you open a terminal in the image on those? Levente
I vote for the WhiskerBrowser with all the cool OB stuff integrated! ;)
Cheers, George
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