Hi Stef,
Now people hear me well: you are ready to hear well. Lower the music
Beside the fact that I like listening to loud music I really lowered it ;) But even with silence in the room your response told me nothing new regarding the topic discussed.
Then read it again :) Because it is really serious and I will just repeat the same. Pharo should be welcoming. I hate the kind of teaching: âyou had a lot of barriers to get there and you succeeded, of course 95% of the classrooms died in the process and prefered JS"
It is not a discussion about "who has the vision" or "who want to get stuck" I think we all share the SAME VISION to move forward with a fresh dynamic programming environment and are not afraid if we move away from our original roots. Otherwise we would'nt be on this list or do even radical changes.
I do not know. So far you are the first ones that ask interesting questions :). To me the other complaints were more like arguments against changes.
But still the simple question left to be anwered here: what will this change of reducing the class template in the default browser give us? What problem did it really solve?
shorter, nicer, simpler class definition :)
The answer given so far is that it may be problematic when teaching because you want to introduce to language features step by step. But you said yourself in your own post that
<quote> It is BORING to have to say to kids: - do not care of classvar - do not care of pooldictionaries </quote>
So my question: if you are bored of the "complexity" of BOTH (!) - why do we hide pools now - and leave class variables still left in the template?
Because classVar and more central I would remove them too and I REALLY hope we will. I hate to see all these empty strings all the time. In the template why not but why in the class definition?
I really do not understand because with the change it now looks in Pharo3.0 Latest update: #30732 like this:
Object subclass: #Foo instanceVariableNames: '' classVariableNames: '' category: âBar'
Because we did not remove them yet but I would love that too. And because classVar are more central that Pool.
So why do we keep class vars then? According to your mail we would have to remove them too.
Yes and instance variables too :) Donât faint but why do we need an empty list of instance variables for classes that do not define instance variables? Seriously: lack of good default value? lack of understanding what is optional? To me a class is a name superclass package then optional and in any order instance variables, class var and to make happy everybody pool
Additionally this change violates the intention of a template (which one usually just has to fill out) and one now has to remember the original full keyword and have to type it in again - which is IMHO really awkward and stupid.
Yes I was talking about the actual class definition not the template
So with all respect: I still can not see the introduction of the reduced template as a step forward or an improvement.
Music is still lowered and ears are all open...
Thx T.