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Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Toon Verwaest

Hi, I can tell you that independent of how the industry might perceive the language Smalltalk, learning Smalltalk will make you personally a better software engineer. And this is what the industry does want. You will look at programming from a new angle and this will give you an edge. This is also true for learning other old languages like Scheme or Lisp. As long as you stay within your Java / .NET bubble you will be one in a billion. If you learn Smalltalk, the fact you know something that other people might not makes you more special. The only negative part of learning Smalltalk while working on other types of applications is that you will eat your shoe 95% of the time hating that Java / .NET aren't more evolved and flexible :) As it seems that you are already working on a project revolving around Smalltalk, be very happy that you are getting the opportunity to learn it; you'll come out for the better. Lastly, don't care too much about popularity within industry. If you take the time to learn the systems for yourself you will probably learn to understand the differences yourself. You are currently also part of industry and obviously don't know Smalltalk well yet; how informed was your decision to not know Smalltalk? You are part of "the industry" making other people not choose Smalltalk based on your (non-)choice of not using Smalltalk; if they would all think this way! Sheep won't change anything :) cheers, Toon On 05/05/2011 07:38 AM, sourav roy wrote: > > > Hi All, > > I have just started my career in Software/IT industry and got into a > project which involes enhancement/maintainance of product built in > Smalltalk. > > I was never exposed to this language before and have no idea if it is > used in the Industry as popularly as JAVA and .NET and looks like its > a DEAD > > language for the industry. I may be wrong but i need some > clarification about it. > > > I just want to know that why smalltalk is not so popular as the other > OOPs Languages and what is the future prospect of > > one if he/she is into Smalltalk development. > > Looking for some positive note so that it may give me some entho for > working with Smalltalk. > > Thanks&Regards, > > Sourav Roy > > > > Get Yourself a cool, short *(a)in.com* Email ID now! > <http://mail.in.com/mails/new_reg.php?utm_source=invite&utm_medium=outgoing>

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Nile tests red - Pharo 1.3

by Alain rastoul

On Wed, 4 May 2011 23:40:59 +0200, StÃ©phane Ducasse<stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > thanks alain!!! > did you sign the license agreement? Not yet but I will no problem , I just have to find a printer and scanner and I send it to you > Setf > On May 4, 2011, at 10:28 PM, Alain_Rastoul wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have a changeset to fix most tests -all except one at this time- of = > Nile, > > most of the red tests are the same errors related to NewParagraph, > > NSTranscripter, so the changeset is very small but I don't the = > procedure to > > submit a fix ? > > Do I add a comment to the issue at code.google with the attached = > changeset ? > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4051 > > > > Do someone review the code (as I am new to Pharo and don't know much = > of Nile > > , Transcripter ) ? > > Do someone - ... who? ... - incorporate the changeset in the sources = > of the > > package ? > > > > TIA > > > > Alain > > > > > > > > -- Alain_rastoul

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Just starting out

by Douglas Brebner

On 04/05/2011 08:58, Toon Verwaest wrote: > On 05/04/2011 09:53 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> On 04 May 2011, at 09:41, Toon Verwaest wrote: >> >>> On 05/04/2011 07:20 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>> this is because they are forced to do so because of a new law in >>>> the us about crypto. >>>> Believe they do not like that. >>> What law is that, and why? Sounds interesting :) >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_in_the_United_States >> >> Basically, encryption is a weapon. >> >> Sven > Uncrackable encryption will allow drug lords, spies, terrorists and > even violent gangs to communicate about their crimes and their > conspiracies with impunity. We will lose one of the few remaining > vulnerabilities of the worst criminals and terrorists upon which law > enforcement depends to successfully investigate and often prevent the > worst crimes. > For this reason, the law enforcement community is unanimous in calling > for a balanced solution to this problem. > > I have to wonder if the people behind this realise that public key encryption was originally invented in the UK, not the USA which makes export controls rather pointless :)

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Nile tests red - Pharo 1.3

by Markus Fritsche

Hello Setf + list, on the google project page it says that "sendig via email" is okay, in the document it says fax or, preferred, snail-mail - is it okay to email the license agreement? If yes, to which address? Regards, Makrus 2011/5/4 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > thanks alain!!! > did you sign the license agreement? > > Setf > > On May 4, 2011, at 10:28 PM, Alain_Rastoul wrote:

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Noury Bouraqadi

HI Sourav, Smalltalk is unfortunately not main stream, one reason is that there were no free version until the end of the 90's. Still there are companies using it some of them since the 80's and doing only Smalltalk. You can find a list here : http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Smaltalk/Companies You can meet some of them at Smalltalk events such as the ESUG yearly conference (the 19th edition will take place next august in UK), Smalltalks conf in argentina (fall) or Smalltalk Solution in the US (last march). At such conferences, one can see the energy of the community and all great innovations that are made possible by using Smalltalk. You can have a list of Smalltalk success stories in business on sites such as : -http://www.pharo-project.org/about/success-stories -http://www.stic.st/successes/ (STIC is the Smalltalk Industry Council). Best, Noury http://car.mines-douai.fr/noury -- -6th National Conference on âControl Architecture of Robotsâ 24-25 may 2011, Grenoble area, France http://car2011.inrialpes.fr/ -19th ESUG International Smalltalk Conference 22-26 August 2011, Edinburgh, UK http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2011 On 5 mai 2011, at 07:38, sourav roy wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have just started my career in Software/IT industry and got into a project which involes enhancement/maintainance of product built in Smalltalk. > > I was never exposed to this language before and have no idea if it is used in the Industry as popularly as JAVA and .NET and looks like its a DEAD > > language for the industry. I may be wrong but i need some clarification about it. > > > I just want to know that why smalltalk is not so popular as the other OOPs Languages and what is the future prospect of > > one if he/she is into Smalltalk development. > > Looking for some positive note so that it may give me some entho for working with Smalltalk. > > Thanks&Regards, > > Sourav Roy > > > > Get Yourself a cool, short @in.com Email ID now!

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Nile tests red - Pharo 1.3

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On May 5, 2011, at 8:47 AM, Markus Fritsche wrote: > Hello Setf + list, > > on the google project page it says that "sendig via email" is okay, in > the document it says fax or, preferred, snail-mail - is it okay to > email the license agreement? If yes, to which address? mine. Stef > > Regards, Makrus > > 2011/5/4 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> thanks alain!!! >> did you sign the license agreement? >> >> Setf >> >> On May 4, 2011, at 10:28 PM, Alain_Rastoul wrote: > ------------------------ Dr. StÃ©phane Ducasse -- Directeur de Recherche (Senior Researcher) INRIA - USTL - CNRS UMR 8022 stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/ http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/ **NEW ***Tel 00 33 (0)3 20 43 42 56 - Fax 33 3 59 57 78 50 "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes European Smalltalk User Group: http://www.esug.org/ Open Source Smalltalks: http://www.pharo-project.org/ Moose Analysis platform: http://www.moosetechnology.org/

May 5, 2011

[Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by sourav roy

Hi All,I have just started my career in Software/IT industry and got into a project which involes enhancement/maintainance of product built in Smalltalk.I was never exposed to this language before and have no idea if it is used in the Industry as popularly as JAVA and .NET and looks like its a DEADlanguage for the industry. I may be wrong but i need some clarification about it. I just want to know that why smalltalk is not so popular as the other OOPs Languages and what is the future prospect of one if he/she is into Smalltalk development.Looking for some positive note so that it may give me some entho for working with Smalltalk. Thanks&Regards, Sourav RoyGet Yourself a cool, short @in.com Email ID now!

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Personalized systems with Treated

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Chris can you create a bug entry report and add your changeset there so that we have it in our radar. Contrarily to want people may think we are not spying what squeak does we are paying attention to make sure that we make progress for our vision. So I imagine that in the future if people want to be compatible with us they will have to push to us fixes that they think is ok. Now about the TreatedInbox: pay attention these are just the fixed proposed that we pushed there once integrated or not. So once a issue is closed the code is there and its integrated version in Pharo. The problem you mention is true for a lot of system, in Moose they are using special version of system packages. On May 5, 2011, at 4:35 AM, Chris Muller wrote: > To support Magma 1.2, I introduced some changes to OrderedCollection > into the Squeak trunk some time ago. To deliver Magma to Pharo users, > I needed to have these same enhancements in Pharo 1.1 and 1.2. But > they were already released, so how was this solved? > > My first instinct was to deliver a change-set; the classical way to > modify the system. But I know dirty packages are unattractive, and > besides that the only way to achieve one-click load of something > involving a change-set + MC-packages in Pharo is with a SAR - overkill > since Magma is just MC packages; no resources. I really wanted to > release Magma 1.2 to Pharo with just a Gofer script. > > So, I decided to import the same changes I made to Squeak's > OrderedCollection into Pharo's and then save that new version to the > Inbox and adjusted my Gofer script for loading Magma to merge that > version of Collections from repositories: Pharo, Inbox, TreatedInbox. > > I knew they would accept it, thank you Pharo, BUT it's nice to know > that I could actually deliver my application without having to wait > for it to be integrated, or worry even if it didn't get accepted; that > chain of repositories should work immediately and forever, no matter > the outcome of acceptance. > > Thanks to MC merging, this is as unintrusive as it can be; in case > someone runs with their own "personalizations" to the Collections > package, loading Magma won't clobber them; nor will updating with > official Pharo-released patches, because those are merged too. > > With the context of this experience, I came to view the "Treated" > repository with a new respect; enabling a non-core developer to > personalize system packages for my application.. > > - Chris >

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] new Cog VMs uploaded

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> >>> You should be able to extract the code and use it in Pharo/Squeak >>> without issue, even if it is GPL. What you can't do is include it in >>> the distribution, since it isn't MIT. You also shouldn't study the >>> code and write your own version of it - I believe that would be a >>> derivative work, which would likely make it a GPL derivative. >> >> so it does not exist and this is better because GPL is viral and we do not want it. >> > > I finding it really funny that GPL were invented to help open-source > to rise and spread, > and now its just stands in your way, as any other closed-source > proprietary one... GPL is more than free software it is a nearly a societal model that I respect. > >>> However, if it was extracted, and you brought it in to do profiling, >>> and then removed it afterwards, that shouldn't be an issue at all. >>> Just remember to remove it after you no longer need it - that way the >>> GPL code won't accidentally creep into the Pharo/Squeak code-base. >>> >>> Basically, this would be a great example of a project that should be >>> an external project and not part of core (or dev). >> >> the problem is that this kind of philosophy goes against the spirit of smalltalk >> of been able to read and learn the code and modify it. > > > I think that Teleplace has not much choice under which license to > release this code, > because as long as you using even portion of GPL-ed code, you are > forced to use GPL as well. And also it avoids that you can do business with it without contributing back which I understand well too. I do not criticize teleplace decision. I just warn us against using any code from there.

May 5, 2011

[Pharo-project] Personalized systems with Treated

by Chris Muller

To support Magma 1.2, I introduced some changes to OrderedCollection into the Squeak trunk some time ago. To deliver Magma to Pharo users, I needed to have these same enhancements in Pharo 1.1 and 1.2. But they were already released, so how was this solved? My first instinct was to deliver a change-set; the classical way to modify the system. But I know dirty packages are unattractive, and besides that the only way to achieve one-click load of something involving a change-set + MC-packages in Pharo is with a SAR - overkill since Magma is just MC packages; no resources. I really wanted to release Magma 1.2 to Pharo with just a Gofer script. So, I decided to import the same changes I made to Squeak's OrderedCollection into Pharo's and then save that new version to the Inbox and adjusted my Gofer script for loading Magma to merge that version of Collections from repositories: Pharo, Inbox, TreatedInbox. I knew they would accept it, thank you Pharo, BUT it's nice to know that I could actually deliver my application without having to wait for it to be integrated, or worry even if it didn't get accepted; that chain of repositories should work immediately and forever, no matter the outcome of acceptance. Thanks to MC merging, this is as unintrusive as it can be; in case someone runs with their own "personalizations" to the Collections package, loading Magma won't clobber them; nor will updating with official Pharo-released patches, because those are merged too. With the context of this experience, I came to view the "Treated" repository with a new respect; enabling a non-core developer to personalize system packages for my application.. - Chris

May 5, 2011