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Re: [Pharo-project] Nile tests red - Pharo 1.3

by Alain rastoul

Nice vision. I want it now :) I think smalltalk is the best choice for that - you know better than me of course However to make a living with it, it has to interface with other IT systems and standards, so that developers can make an sell a part of the system. Pharo has seaside-web on one end but may be something is missing with relational databases. They are today the heart of business information systems (I have to try dbx and glorp , odbc is not usable because of locks) Side note, I often wondered myself why object databases didn't catch? Technical issues? Marketing? Btw, pharo has taken a good direction. Nice work. I'll try and see if I can help in this field (databases) which is one of my skill Cheers Alain -- Alain_rastoul

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Preferred way of removing slice from Inbox

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:22 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > > On May 5, 2011, at 9:00 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Once a SLICE is integrated in PharoCore, how do you remove it from > PharoInbox ? > > via boring click click click squeaksource interface > > mmmmmm shouldn't we be able to create a simple Gofer script that do that? lukas? -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Making cr to autocomplete as well as tab (in Pharo 1.3)

by Igor Stasenko

On 5 May 2011 22:46, Thierry Lebourque <zebourk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > In my opinion, completion should not select anything when activated > automatically, it is only suggestion. It is the user who choose to use > it or not, by using tab or arrow, for example. If the completion is > requested intentionally it should behave as described by Doru. > Yes, it should not select anything (even if there's only choice), and only if user pressing keys to select an item from drop-down list (like up/down/tab), then selection should be enabled. Otherwise autocompletion should just hang around and not interfere with user's input until he typed mentioned keys, which effectively changes input focus to a menu instead of text editor. > I have used quite a lot of different IDE, and sometimes I find the > Pharo completion quite disturbing. > > But as StÃ©phane said, it could maybe become a setting. > > 2011/5/5 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> yes I asked romain to bind the auto complete to enter and we removed it. >> Now probably having one setting would be good. >> >> Stef >> >> On May 5, 2011, at 6:00 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> This is not great at all. Please read this before going forward. >>> >>> We had this in OCompletion before and then it got changed to not use CR for a reason. The problem is when using fluent APIs that are best read when written on multiple lines. For example, suppose that I want to type something like this in Glamour: >>> >>> ... >>> Â Â Â a tree >>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â display: [ ... ] >>> >>> After typing "a tree", the first proposed item is "treeLayout" (see the attached picture). If I press enter to go to the next line "tree" is replaced with "treeLayout" and this is not the behavior I want. >>> >>> The problem is that CR has a useful meaning when typing a piece of text and this makes it not good as a completion character. Tab on the other hand, is only used in Smalltalk at the beginning of an empty line so there is no danger of overloading its functionality in the middle of a text. >>> >>> >>> Now, if you insist, I still believe there is a place for CR. Completion has two modes: >>> 1. one in which I write and the completion offers me something, and >>> 2. one in which I am after I press the down arrow to select some completion item. >>> >>> For 1. you do not want to have CR as a completion character. For 2. it is probably ok because you enter explicitly in a temporary mode and thus you are not typing anymore and this will not induce the conflict. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> <example-glamour-fluent-api.png> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5 May 2011, at 17:37, Thierry Lebourque wrote: >>> >>>> That is really great! >>>> Many thanks >>>> >>>> 2011/5/5 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>: >>>>> Hi, i just found inconvenient that for autocompletion i should press >>>>> tab all the time >>>>> while i tend to always hit enter, which instead of pasting suggestion, >>>>> inserts cr into text. >>>>> >>>>> So i hacked a lil piece of code to make autocompletion to insert >>>>> suggested text when you pressing either tab or cr >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." >>> >> >> >> > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Igor Stasenko

On 5 May 2011 21:39, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 5/5/2011 12:21 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >> On 5 May 2011 18:57, Jimmie Houchin<jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> Â wrote: > > [Big Snip] >> >> Well said. >> Except that i'm not sharing your view that its hard to interface with >> foreign libraries. >> Its not hard at all. Of course to connect two different worlds, you >> need to have knowledge >> in both of them. But this requirement not a bit different when you >> take any other pair of languages and try to >> connect them. > > Thanks, > > I have no knowledge of either the knowledge or the challenges involved in > using external libraries in Pharo or Squeak. I have no knowledge of > FFI/Alien or using C/C++/C# or compilers. > > However, this is my experience in Python. > > Navigate to the directory containing the script makepy.py or if it is a part > of your Python's sys.path, execute the script. It generates a Python module > which is on > > It pops up a dialogue which prompts you to select the library you wish to > interface. > > Then to use in a script simply > import Dispatch > self.mylib = Dispatch("MyLibrary") > > This will expose all the functionality of the library. > > All provided by the python win32 extensions. It was very successful for my > needs. I do not know what limitations it may or may not have. > > Very easy for non-expert programmers. I would love this level of ability to > interface outside libraries in Squeak. But I have no idea the effort > required to automate the generation of a class or classes which interface > the external library. > > In my particular instance this is obviously for a Windows library. I don't > know if Python has anything comparable for Linux or OSX. > > In this particular instance, Python was enabling for me, for which I am > grateful. Otherwise I might be stuck writing my app in VisualBasic. But > despite my gratefulness, I spend as little time in Python as possible. > Despite Python not requiring a compiler, I really hate going to an editor > and writing code. Then to an interpreter to run code. Hit my stacktrace. Go > back to the editor. Reload the module in the interpreter and run again, and > if that doesn't succeed due to the reload not really reloading the new code, > open in a new interpreter. Ugh!!! Â Where's my Smalltalk. Give my live object > system. :) > Haha.. i have strong suspicion that here you are talking about quite specific set of libraries, which using OLE/COM interfaces. Indeed, one could implement an automatic "import/connect" tool for it, because a library itself contain enough information reflecting it interface(s). You can check Dolphin smalltalk which works only on windows and has integrated solution for that for years: In same way like you described, you just pick the library, click "ok" and its done & ready for use. But that would be too easy if you could do same with any other library in your system. So, if you feel adventurous, try to check what Python can do with libraries like Kernel32.dll or User32.dll. I am sure it can do as little as Smalltalk in this regard, but you are free to check it yourself :) > Jimmie > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Making cr to autocomplete as well as tab (in Pharo 1.3)

by Thierry Lebourque

In my opinion, completion should not select anything when activated automatically, it is only suggestion. It is the user who choose to use it or not, by using tab or arrow, for example. If the completion is requested intentionally it should behave as described by Doru. I have used quite a lot of different IDE, and sometimes I find the Pharo completion quite disturbing. But as StÃ©phane said, it could maybe become a setting. 2011/5/5 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > yes I asked romain to bind the auto complete to enter and we removed it. > Now probably having one setting would be good. > > Stef > > On May 5, 2011, at 6:00 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> This is not great at all. Please read this before going forward. >> >> We had this in OCompletion before and then it got changed to not use CR for a reason. The problem is when using fluent APIs that are best read when written on multiple lines. For example, suppose that I want to type something like this in Glamour: >> >> ... >> Â Â Â a tree >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â display: [ ... ] >> >> After typing "a tree", the first proposed item is "treeLayout" (see the attached picture). If I press enter to go to the next line "tree" is replaced with "treeLayout" and this is not the behavior I want. >> >> The problem is that CR has a useful meaning when typing a piece of text and this makes it not good as a completion character. Tab on the other hand, is only used in Smalltalk at the beginning of an empty line so there is no danger of overloading its functionality in the middle of a text. >> >> >> Now, if you insist, I still believe there is a place for CR. Completion has two modes: >> 1. one in which I write and the completion offers me something, and >> 2. one in which I am after I press the down arrow to select some completion item. >> >> For 1. you do not want to have CR as a completion character. For 2. it is probably ok because you enter explicitly in a temporary mode and thus you are not typing anymore and this will not induce the conflict. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> <example-glamour-fluent-api.png> >> >> >> >> On 5 May 2011, at 17:37, Thierry Lebourque wrote: >> >>> That is really great! >>> Many thanks >>> >>> 2011/5/5 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>: >>>> Hi, i just found inconvenient that for autocompletion i should press >>>> tab all the time >>>> while i tend to always hit enter, which instead of pasting suggestion, >>>> inserts cr into text. >>>> >>>> So i hacked a lil piece of code to make autocompletion to insert >>>> suggested text when you pressing either tab or cr >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." >> > > >

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [update 1.3] #13183

by laurent laffont

hÃ©hÃ©, now DecompilerTests are run and some fail https://pharo-ic.lille.inria.fr/hudson/view/Pharo/job/Pharo%20Core%201.3/la… Laurnt On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:26 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > thanks laurent! > > Stef > > On May 5, 2011, at 8:13 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > 13183 > > ----- > > > > Issue #4132: > > > > - LongTest are run by default (so they will be run by Hudson) > > - Add a setting in System / Run Long Test to enable / disable them > > - Comment > > > > Laurent > > >

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [update 1.3] #13183

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thanks laurent! Stef On May 5, 2011, at 8:13 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > 13183 > ----- > > Issue #4132: > > - LongTest are run by default (so they will be run by Hudson) > - Add a setting in System / Run Long Test to enable / disable them > - Comment > > Laurent

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Personalized systems with Treated

by Miguel CobÃ¡

El jue, 05-05-2011 a las 14:17 -0500, Chris Muller escribiÃ³: > >> I'm more interested to know the answers to these questions: > >> > >> - How does one deploy an application on Pharo that requires a > >> one-line change to a core system method that is not acceptable to the > >> Pharo gods? > > > > The same tha squeak for changes that aren't accepted/belongs to/are too > > specific to an application. You include them as an *mypackage extension > > in some package of yours and then when the mcz is installed, the > > extension is installed too. That is just monticello as always. > > I'm talking about an override not an extension. Can't see the difference. Your package just have a method that overrides one method in a core system class. Or am I missing something? > > >> - How does one deploy an application on Pharo that loads code from > >> external web-sites? > > > > Using doIts if necessary. > > Right, dropping down into straight load-script and doing it. Got it! :) Yes, because is the last resort. But most scripts are just pulling dependencies, not resources so if you advocate the scripts just for the fraction of special uses instead of a reified tool, that is a personal decision not really an argument. > > >> - How does one deploy an application on Pharo that requires external > >> graphics, videos, XML or other resources? > > > > Idem. > > Often specific _versions_ of resources go with each specific version > of an application. Now I am maintaining those separately, in separate > places using separate tools. You can have as many doits as you want (they are methods) and each version loaded by the configuration can invoke a given doit to load specific version of your resources. > > I want something to expand the metaphor of an object being > "encapsulated behavior + state" into my deployment system, so it will > be "encapsulated behaviors + resources". Thankfully, even Pharo 1.3 > still supports .SAR files, but no nice GUI to load them, just the > file-manager. :( > > >> - How does one deploy an application on Pharo that requires an > >> object-graph to be loaded internally into the image that was pre-built > >> using another tool (e.g., NOT generated via code)? > > > > Don't understand the example > > A better example. What if I just want something that strips my image > down of lots of code and objects, without leaving any new code loaded? > > It's a rhetorical question, I already know the answer: Create a > Metacello config to host only a load-script (doIt). But I wonder > whether said doIt would be able to "unload itself" when it was done? > Probably could. This is a very specific scenario that most surely is not needed by the 90% of users that metacello is aiming to be useful to. The 10% that need some very restricted loading scenario can have a script that does everything that need. > > > I think it does those things, maybe a second look at the existings > > configurations can clear a lot of doubts. > > The picture seems to be, as long as my app is all just "clean-loading > MC packages", then I can use Metacello within its normal bounds. (OR, > I could just use the standard "lighter-weight" SCM tools; Monticello + > MonticelloConfigurations + Gofer). Yes, but for most maintainers that "clean-loading MC packages" is what we need. For example magma. Is a complex project and even so it doesn't use any of the spoken features so metacello is good enought to load it in Pharo. This argument about scripts vs metacello is like saying that just because you can do the same with assembler when iterating over a list of string you don't need a OrderedCollection. yes you can do the same, but the advantages are greater when working with full objects that with plain text. > > However, if an application requires anything additional: overrides, > resources or special-configurations, then I drop down to the "ultimate > flexbility" afforded by doIt's - which is just load-scripting. Even > then, the resources are not encapsulated as I already said. > > SqueakMap is a repository that hosts load-scripts encasulated with or > without resources. It's perfectly complimentary to all of the other > tools. > > I'm exhausted of talking about this.. Ok, then lets rest it now. Regards -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Preferred way of removing slice from Inbox

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On May 5, 2011, at 9:00 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > Hi, > > Once a SLICE is integrated in PharoCore, how do you remove it from PharoInbox ? via boring click click click squeaksource interface :( > > Laurent

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks Jimmie Thanks to kick our asses like that! I would love to have that too in Pharo. Stef > Thanks, > > I have no knowledge of either the knowledge or the challenges involved in using external libraries in Pharo or Squeak. I have no knowledge of FFI/Alien or using C/C++/C# or compilers. > > However, this is my experience in Python. > > Navigate to the directory containing the script makepy.py or if it is a part of your Python's sys.path, execute the script. It generates a Python module which is on > > It pops up a dialogue which prompts you to select the library you wish to interface. > > Then to use in a script simply > import Dispatch > self.mylib = Dispatch("MyLibrary") > > This will expose all the functionality of the library. > > All provided by the python win32 extensions. It was very successful for my needs. I do not know what limitations it may or may not have. > > Very easy for non-expert programmers. I would love this level of ability to interface outside libraries in Squeak. But I have no idea the effort required to automate the generation of a class or classes which interface the external library. > > In my particular instance this is obviously for a Windows library. I don't know if Python has anything comparable for Linux or OSX. > > In this particular instance, Python was enabling for me, for which I am grateful. Otherwise I might be stuck writing my app in VisualBasic. But despite my gratefulness, I spend as little time in Python as possible. Despite Python not requiring a compiler, I really hate going to an editor and writing code. Then to an interpreter to run code. Hit my stacktrace. Go back to the editor. Reload the module in the interpreter and run again, and if that doesn't succeed due to the reload not really reloading the new code, open in a new interpreter. Ugh!!! Where's my Smalltalk. Give my live object system. :) > > Jimmie > >

May 5, 2011