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Re: [Pharo-project] PBE in HTML [was: Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry]

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 07 May 2011, at 09:46, laurent laffont wrote: > oh, it's the first thing I've learned in Pharo. Right-click, do it :) Great! This should become a famous quote. Sven

May 7, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] PBE in HTML [was: Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry]

by laurent laffont

On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 9:23 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > this would be gorgeous. > I like your doing spirit laurent! > oh, it's the first thing I've learned in Pharo. Right-click, do it :) Laurent > > Stef > > On May 6, 2011, at 6:51 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 5:30 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > I installed pdf to html but I could not make it run :( > > > > htlatex seems OK, we can start with this. Need to supply a nice CSS > though. I will try to find some time to play with (help always welcome :) > > > > Laurent. > > > > > > On May 6, 2011, at 2:05 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:56 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > Ok if some good souls want to give a try to generate html. > > > > > > > > > On OSX with MacTex-2010 installed, I've tried > > > > > > git clone --depth 1 > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoByExample-english.git > > > cd PharoByExample-english/ > > > htlatex PBE1.tex "html,2" > > > > > > Then open PBE1.html , one page per chapter. > > > > > > See http://www.tug.org/applications/tex4ht/mn-commands.html > > > > > > Laurent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stef > > > > > > > > > > > > > Probably we should find a way to generate HTML from PDF or Latex. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > I've used latex2html several years ago. > > > > > > > > +1 for html > > > > > > > > Laurent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Now for the documentation when did you send an help > documentation for any part of the system? > > > > >>>> Or a bug fix? > > > > >>>> I find quite funny that people always talk but few are doing. We > welcome comments/examples help. > > > > >>> No need to get into a cat-fight here :) > > > > >> > > > > >> No this is not my point. But what do people really do to help? > > > > >> > > > > >>> I do agree with Stefan, as well as with you that we could help; > but I'm unaware of a good documentation effort outside of the image to start > with. Camillo's website project might be the best effort I've seen until > now; but then I didn't really look either. Maybe I missed some great > website? > > > > >> > > > > >> If this is just to spit out class comment on html I do not call > that a documentation. > > > > >> Now we can take the book contents and generate html > > > > >> We have 350 pages in the first book and the same in the second > one. > > > > >> People are free to join and write one or two chapters. > > > > > > > > > > StÃ©phane, > > > > > > > > > > Of course you are right: wining/complaining doesn't help, only > action does. We need more people like Laurent focusing on documentation. > > > > > > > > > > I for one think that the well written, high quality books that > exist (PBE, Seaside Book) are *very valuable*, much better than confusing > wiki site (although these have their place as well). > > > > > > > > > > But the other point is: in most other popular languages, what > current, young developers do, when they get an error that they don't > understand is copy/paste the literal text in Google and in a surprisingly > large number of cases you find some real answers in the first page. > > > > > > > > > > This is also related to popularity of course. > > > > > > > > > > Sven > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

May 7, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [COTDC] 60 - DirectoryURI

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

do it. One idea was to replace all the file ref with URI but for later. Stef On May 6, 2011, at 11:46 PM, Guillermo Polito wrote: > I'd love to :). > > And OpaqueUri can be removed by just adding an attribute to URI for the boolean ;) > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 6:06 PM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 8:21 PM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Today: DirectoryURI > > This class is empty and only referenced in URI class, could be replaced by HierarchicalURI.... Should we remove / deprecate it ? > > Laurent. > > > > > Comment Of The Day Contest - One Day One Comment > Rules: > #1: Each day a not commented class is elected. Each day the best comment will be integrated with name of the author(s). > #2: If you cannot comment it, deprecate it. > Results: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/CommentOfTheDayContest > > Laurent > >

May 7, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Send a notification

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

alex drop some notes in a file if you see what I mean :) Stef On May 6, 2011, at 11:02 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > Thanks, > > Alexandre > > > On 6 May 2011, at 15:59, Jan van de Sandt wrote: > >> >> On May 6, 2011 8:45 PM, "Alexandre Bergel" <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >>> >>>> As long as your SMTP doesn't require encryption this is simple: Use >>>> MailSender that comes with every Pharo image. Seaside provides some >>>> objects on top of that, so that you don't have to assemble the message >>>> by hand. >>> >>> Ok, we will check >>> >>>>> We then thought about emitting twitts, but there is a need to authorize the client. Anyone has experience? >>>> >>>> Twitter requires OAuth, which requires an SSL capable HTTP client. >>> >>> Does this mean this cannot be done now in Pharo? >> >> It can be done in Pharo using CloudforkSSO. See http://blog.doit.st >> >> Jan. >> >>> >>> Alexandre >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > >

May 7, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] PBE in HTML [was: Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry]

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

this would be gorgeous. I like your doing spirit laurent! Stef On May 6, 2011, at 6:51 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 5:30 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > I installed pdf to html but I could not make it run :( > > htlatex seems OK, we can start with this. Need to supply a nice CSS though. I will try to find some time to play with (help always welcome :) > > Laurent. > > > On May 6, 2011, at 2:05 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:56 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Ok if some good souls want to give a try to generate html. > > > > > > On OSX with MacTex-2010 installed, I've tried > > > > git clone --depth 1 https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoByExample-english.git > > cd PharoByExample-english/ > > htlatex PBE1.tex "html,2" > > > > Then open PBE1.html , one page per chapter. > > > > See http://www.tug.org/applications/tex4ht/mn-commands.html > > > > Laurent. > > > > > > > > > > Stef > > > > > > > > > Probably we should find a way to generate HTML from PDF or Latex. > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > I've used latex2html several years ago. > > > > > > +1 for html > > > > > > Laurent. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Now for the documentation when did you send an help documentation for any part of the system? > > > >>>> Or a bug fix? > > > >>>> I find quite funny that people always talk but few are doing. We welcome comments/examples help. > > > >>> No need to get into a cat-fight here :) > > > >> > > > >> No this is not my point. But what do people really do to help? > > > >> > > > >>> I do agree with Stefan, as well as with you that we could help; but I'm unaware of a good documentation effort outside of the image to start with. Camillo's website project might be the best effort I've seen until now; but then I didn't really look either. Maybe I missed some great website? > > > >> > > > >> If this is just to spit out class comment on html I do not call that a documentation. > > > >> Now we can take the book contents and generate html > > > >> We have 350 pages in the first book and the same in the second one. > > > >> People are free to join and write one or two chapters. > > > > > > > > StÃ©phane, > > > > > > > > Of course you are right: wining/complaining doesn't help, only action does. We need more people like Laurent focusing on documentation. > > > > > > > > I for one think that the well written, high quality books that exist (PBE, Seaside Book) are *very valuable*, much better than confusing wiki site (although these have their place as well). > > > > > > > > But the other point is: in most other popular languages, what current, young developers do, when they get an error that they don't understand is copy/paste the literal text in Google and in a surprisingly large number of cases you find some real answers in the first page. > > > > > > > > This is also related to popularity of course. > > > > > > > > Sven > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

May 7, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks I may look at it. as well as the library dave mentioned. but busy Stef On May 7, 2011, at 3:00 AM, csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > Em 06/05/2011 06:34, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > escreveu: > >> Probably we should find a way to generate HTML from PDF or Latex. > > From LaTeX to HTML obviously the path is to use LaTeX2HTML http://www.latex2html.org/ or if your LaTeX installation supports it htlatex to process the LaTeX sources into HTML pages. An older but still useful source of information is > > http://mirror.softwarelivre.ufsc.br/pub/ctan/info/webguide/webguide.html#QQ… > >> Any ideas? > > Create some classes in Pharo to do the job? >

May 7, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On May 7, 2011, at 2:49 AM, Stefan Marr wrote: > > On 07 May 2011, at 02:06, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> On 6 May 2011 23:45, Stefan Marr <pharo(a)stefan-marr.de> wrote: >>> There is nothing fundamental in the RoarVM that is changing the language semantics of Smalltalk. >>> >>> It is just that for: `[do something] fork` you will have to assume that it is executed in parallel to other code. >>> >> only that? >> Heh.. then we're 99% done. Except that this last 1% is still could >> take years to complete :) > > But why? We show with the Squeak 3.x MVC image that it is perfectly possible. (the change set is absolutely minimal, and the only thing we needed to fix was some Delay related issues) when and where did you announce that? Where is the code? > > And, on top of that it is perfectly possible, there is a smooth transition path. > You can tell all your Process objects to just run on the main core in the beginning, and then just use the other cores for code you wrote specifically. > > Thus, there is a nice step-wise path. And I think I outlined that in my 20min presentation at the school after Stef asked. > BTW: are those videos somewhere accessible? > > From my perspective all it takes is someone who actually cares, and has the time to experiment a bit with parallel programming. > > The kernel, and the tools can be migrated step by step. > > However, that is just on top of the current RoarVM, which is certainly not as attractive as a CogVM with real thread support. > >> I can tell you more: there is no business cases for VM(s) which can do >> manycore :) > No manycore perhaps, but luckily the low-power end is pushing to multicore solutions. > So, your next iPhone and Android app will need to leverage at least two cores for optimal performance, and even quad-core phones are just around the corner. > > >> Implementing VM which enabling massive parallelism is just a >> beginning. Then obviously you need do to a lot at language side >> to leverage that, in order to really say "yes, our system(s) are aware >> of multicore and can scale almost linearly in future". > No, don't think so. If people got deadlines and a need, they will do it with the tools at hand. > And what I am doing here is absolutely not rocket science. Actually it is pretty hard to sell the engineering we do as science at all. Because the multicore VM problem has been solved a decade ago. They just forgot to tell us how... > > Best regards > Stefan > > -- > Stefan Marr > Software Languages Lab > Vrije Universiteit Brussel > Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium > http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr > Phone: +32 2 629 2974 > Fax: +32 2 629 3525 > >

May 7, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > Once, for Squeak VM, i made an implementation to move scheduling away > from VM into language. > It was fully working, and you were free to change scheduling logic > without touching VM anymore. > What you think how many people reacted to that? How many of them would > like to pursue this further? me but I'm an idiot. So I do not count. Stef

May 7, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

this is the story of a funny guy that went to the beer fest at Munich and stand up on the table took the mic and shouted that he hated beer and that germans were women becaise only water was important.... the story does not say what the guy became. Thanks stefan, your point about web presence crappy doc is taken and we will have soon a server for webdoc and we will convert our lovely books from pdf to html-crap. Stef

May 7, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On May 6, 2011, at 7:35 PM, Dave Mason wrote: > On May 6, 2011, at 13:25, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> Seriously, if you want such kind of shitty interface, which allows you >> to call arbitrary function with arbitrary arguments >> without any argument type checking, i can write it for you. > > Well, yes, actually. If it means they can access the big wide world beyond Smalltalk, lots of people *would* like that. Of course they'd like it better if there were the nice type-checking, etc. but presumably that would come incrementally. > > Seriously, this might be something I could contribute to Pharo. Especially if Igor can get a simple, but functional, start going easily. **Please** dave join the force. Stef > > ../Dave

May 7, 2011