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Re: [Pharo-project] WebDoc, SimpleWebDoc and Pharo website

by laurent laffont

On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 8:42 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > > On May 7, 2011, at 8:36 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > Hi guys. One of the things I hate most is when there is a cool > tool/documentation available and we don't spread it. > > > > I know Laurent did SimpleWebDoc a couple of months ago. > > > > Then Camillo did it again...and call it WebDoc. > > But...still, from the user point of view, there is nothing. You go to the > Pharo website, and there is nothing. The webdoc is not hosted (seaside > hosting is too slow). > > I asked camillo to sit down with marcus and damien and it will happen. > Great !! Laurent > > > > So... my question is....can we put WebDoc o SimpleWebDoc somewhere (for > example in the same host where Pharo website runs) so that it is > accessible? then we should link to it from different places in the phaor > website. > > Yes we should and will. > > > Don't tell me it is not ready. It doesn't need to be perfect (I don't > care for the moment if there is no serach or if it is slow), we can already > start to work: > > > > 1) Define where to host it > > 2) host it > > 3) put info and links from Pharo website to it. > > > > Then, updating webdoc is just a matter of upoading a new version... > > Yes. > > > > > Thanks > > -- > > Mariano > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > >

May 8, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] WebDoc, SimpleWebDoc and Pharo website

by laurent laffont

On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com > wrote: > Hi guys. One of the things I hate most is when there is a cool > tool/documentation available and we don't spread it. > > I know Laurent did SimpleWebDoc a couple of months ago. > More than 1 year ago :) But Camillo's work seems far better. Ideas that was in my system and I like: - For a package, build a summary / overview using first sentence of each commented class comment. - Use yUML for generating inheritance diagram - Caching so it's not slow I still have an old image running here http://magaloma.seasidehosting.st/Collections-Arrayed You can download it here http://lolgzs.free.fr/pharo/simplewebdoc.zip but it's crappy code Laurent. > Then Camillo did it again...and call it WebDoc. > > But...still, from the user point of view, there is nothing. You go to the > Pharo website, and there is nothing. The webdoc is not hosted (seaside > hosting is too slow). > > So... my question is....can we put WebDoc o SimpleWebDoc somewhere (for > example in the same host where Pharo website runs) so that it is > accessible? then we should link to it from different places in the phaor > website. > > Don't tell me it is not ready. It doesn't need to be perfect (I don't care > for the moment if there is no serach or if it is slow), we can already start > to work: > > 1) Define where to host it > 2) host it > 3) put info and links from Pharo website to it. > > Then, updating webdoc is just a matter of upoading a new version... > > Thanks > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > >

May 8, 2011

[Pharo-project] Package validation?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys did one of you wrote a small Package checker that would check: - that all the methods get a non nil category - methods belong to a package loaded? I experienced a lot of problem with RPackage when loading broken code and I would like to produce a little tool to validate packages so that we can identify problems and understand how to solve that in RPackage. Stef

May 8, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] PBE in HTML [was: Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry]

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I could not generate all the html because apparently there is a problem. The table of contents was broken. Stef On May 6, 2011, at 2:05 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:56 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Ok if some good souls want to give a try to generate html. > > > On OSX with MacTex-2010 installed, I've tried > > git clone --depth 1 https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoByExample-english.git > cd PharoByExample-english/ > htlatex PBE1.tex "html,2" > > Then open PBE1.html , one page per chapter. > > See http://www.tug.org/applications/tex4ht/mn-commands.html > > Laurent. > > > > > Stef > > > > > Probably we should find a way to generate HTML from PDF or Latex. > > Any ideas? > > > > I've used latex2html several years ago. > > > > +1 for html > > > > Laurent. > > > > > > > > >>>> Now for the documentation when did you send an help documentation for any part of the system? > > >>>> Or a bug fix? > > >>>> I find quite funny that people always talk but few are doing. We welcome comments/examples help. > > >>> No need to get into a cat-fight here :) > > >> > > >> No this is not my point. But what do people really do to help? > > >> > > >>> I do agree with Stefan, as well as with you that we could help; but I'm unaware of a good documentation effort outside of the image to start with. Camillo's website project might be the best effort I've seen until now; but then I didn't really look either. Maybe I missed some great website? > > >> > > >> If this is just to spit out class comment on html I do not call that a documentation. > > >> Now we can take the book contents and generate html > > >> We have 350 pages in the first book and the same in the second one. > > >> People are free to join and write one or two chapters. > > > > > > StÃ©phane, > > > > > > Of course you are right: wining/complaining doesn't help, only action does. We need more people like Laurent focusing on documentation. > > > > > > I for one think that the well written, high quality books that exist (PBE, Seaside Book) are *very valuable*, much better than confusing wiki site (although these have their place as well). > > > > > > But the other point is: in most other popular languages, what current, young developers do, when they get an error that they don't understand is copy/paste the literal text in Google and in a surprisingly large number of cases you find some real answers in the first page. > > > > > > This is also related to popularity of course. > > > > > > Sven > > > > > > > > >

May 8, 2011

[Pharo-project] Which are the limitations of MessageTally?? Re: new Cog VMs uploaded

by Mariano Martinez Peck

What approach do you suggest should I take? >> > > I have no idea. You could try and break down the various activities and > benchmark them separately I suppose. You could look at the profiles you're > already generating in higher resolution to see where the time is going. You > could also try and extract the SystemProfiler from OpenQwaq, which will run > on Cog, and is better than MessageTally. Andreas wrote it to get around > some of MessageTally's limitations. It should hopefully show primitives > quite accurately. > > Hi. I have already read this several times. From you now, from Alexandre Bergel, from Henrik Johansen, etc. But no one (or maybe I didn't see it) give a list of the real existent MessageTally limitations or problems. So far, the only thing I read is what Eliot says here: "show primitives quite accurately" So...which are the rest and what is solved by the SystemProfiler from OpenQwaq ?? Thanks in advance, Mariano > HTH > Eliot > > >> >> Cheers >> Philippe >> >> >> > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

May 8, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] new Cog VMs uploaded

by Philippe Marschall

On 03.05.2011 23:40, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Philippe Marschall <kustos(a)gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net>> wrote: > > On 03.05.2011 19:51, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 4:38 AM, Philippe Marschall > <kustos(a)gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net> > > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net>>> wrote: > > > > On 29.04.2011 19:03, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Philippe Marschall > > <kustos(a)gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net> > > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net>> > > > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net> > > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net>>>> wrote: > > > > > > On 27.04.2011 19 <tel:27.04.2011%2019> <tel:27.04.2011%2019> > > <tel:27.04.2011%2019>:23, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > > Philippe, > > > > > > > > can you please profile before and after? This could > > very well > > > be to > > > > do with the additional cost of shallowCopy for > contexts, but > > it is > > > > inevitable that a correct implementation is going to > be more > > expensive > > > > than the simple block-copy. The new implementation can be > > optimized, > > > > but we need to profile first to be sure we're tilting > at the > > relevant > > > > windmill. > > > > > > > > > What kind of profiling do you have in mind, MessageTally? > > > > > > > > > Yes, that would be fine. Thanks! > > > > OK, there you go. As you'll see the runtime is about the same, > that's > > because we do more iterations in the same time. Also note the > time we're > > spending in WriteStream >> #nextPutAll: with interestingly has a > > different growing behavior than WriteStream >> #nextPut: (only > 25% vs > > 100%). I already raised the issue once but people argued that the > > current code is prefect. > > > > > > Hmmm. GC behaviour is very different. Also requestContext Also shows > > up in the 2382 profiles but not the 2370 traces. You'll need to dig a > > little deeper to account for these differences. I guess they > could well > > be to do with the new (correct) MethodContext copying behaviour > > retaining more state and hence stressing the GC more. > > What approach do you suggest should I take? > > > I have no idea. You could try and break down the various activities and > benchmark them separately I suppose. You could look at the profiles > you're already generating in higher resolution to see where the time is > going. You could also try and extract the SystemProfiler from OpenQwaq, > which will run on Cog, and is better than MessageTally. Andreas wrote > it to get around some of MessageTally's limitations. It should > hopefully show primitives quite accurately. Ok, here we go. Cheers Philippe

May 8, 2011

[Pharo-project] [ANN] SystemProfiler for Pharo

by Philippe Marschall

Hi I ported SystemProfiler from OpenQwaq to Pharo [1]. It's supposed to be better than MessageTally, not share some of it's limitations and show primites quite accurately. It requires Cog. Please note that this software is GPLv2. I left the class category as Qwaq, I hope this is fine with everybody. [1] http://www.squeaksource.com/SystemProfilerPharo.html Cheers Philippe

May 8, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] PBE in HTML [was: Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry]

by Hilaire Fernandes

Ah right, htlatex seems to be doing just fine. Lot of warning but it get through the all file. Hilaire Le 06/05/2011 18:51, laurent laffont a Ã©crit : > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 5:30 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > <mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>> wrote: > > I installed pdf to html but I could not make it run :( > > > htlatex seems OK, we can start with this. Need to supply a nice CSS > though. I will try to find some time to play with (help always welcome :) > > Laurent. > > > > On May 6, 2011, at 2:05 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:56 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > <mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>> wrote: > > Ok if some good souls want to give a try to generate html. > > > > > > On OSX with MacTex-2010 installed, I've tried > > > > git clone --depth 1 > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoByExample-english.git > > cd PharoByExample-english/ > > htlatex PBE1.tex "html,2" > > > > Then open PBE1.html , one page per chapter. > > > > See http://www.tug.org/applications/tex4ht/mn-commands.html > > > > Laurent. > > > > > > > > > > Stef > > > > > > > > > Probably we should find a way to generate HTML from PDF or Latex. > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > I've used latex2html several years ago. > > > > > > +1 for html > > > > > > Laurent. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Now for the documentation when did you send an help > documentation for any part of the system? > > > >>>> Or a bug fix? > > > >>>> I find quite funny that people always talk but few are > doing. We welcome comments/examples help. > > > >>> No need to get into a cat-fight here :) > > > >> > > > >> No this is not my point. But what do people really do to help? > > > >> > > > >>> I do agree with Stefan, as well as with you that we could > help; but I'm unaware of a good documentation effort outside of the > image to start with. Camillo's website project might be the best > effort I've seen until now; but then I didn't really look either. > Maybe I missed some great website? > > > >> > > > >> If this is just to spit out class comment on html I do not > call that a documentation. > > > >> Now we can take the book contents and generate html > > > >> We have 350 pages in the first book and the same in the > second one. > > > >> People are free to join and write one or two chapters. > > > > > > > > StÃ©phane, > > > > > > > > Of course you are right: wining/complaining doesn't help, only > action does. We need more people like Laurent focusing on documentation. > > > > > > > > I for one think that the well written, high quality books that > exist (PBE, Seaside Book) are *very valuable*, much better than > confusing wiki site (although these have their place as well). > > > > > > > > But the other point is: in most other popular languages, what > current, young developers do, when they get an error that they don't > understand is copy/paste the literal text in Google and in a > surprisingly large number of cases you find some real answers in the > first page. > > > > > > > > This is also related to popularity of course. > > > > > > > > Sven > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire

May 8, 2011

[Pharo-project] html doc

by Hilaire Fernandes

I gave a try with Hevea to compile PBE book in HTML It gave many errors, I try to fix a few but there are many. It will require rewriting a lot of the PBE macros with ifelse{latex}{html} directives. This is what I did for the drgeo doc (http://documentation.ofset.org/drgeo2/fr) Does someone try with latex2html? Hilaire -- Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire

May 8, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

On 07. 05. 2011 13:37, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 7 May 2011 07:25, Michael Haupt <mhaupt(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> And do not forget the most important thing: people must be educated to >> program for parallelism. The computing power is there to be exploited, but >> programmers need to know how to exploit it. You can't rely on the compiler >> or VM alone. > That's the main problem, IMO. Most smalltalkers i met (oh.. why.. not > just smalltalkers), > fear parallelism like fire. Refer to it as something too complex they > can't understand. > And i think that's why "Parallelism to masses" approach is largely > failing , not just in smalltalk, > but in whole software industry. Web frameworks are ones who would benefit from multicore Smalltalk instantly and without exposing concurrent programing complexities to web app developers. All paralell programing/execution complexity can be nicely encapsulated/hidden in web framework itself. And actually is now already, because we need to handle parallel web requests all the time. Best regards Janko -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

May 8, 2011