- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] iOS polymorph theme anyone?

by Hilaire Fernandes

I am planning to work on a Polymorph theme to follow iPAD (and should be fine for Android) look and feel. Anyone interested to jump in? Hilaire -- Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire

May 28, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] A radical proposal (to cut down dead code)

by GastÃ³n Dall' Oglio

Hello. I do not know about Torch, Moose, and related tools, and I even as a novice in the art of smalltalk, I will tell an idea. If it seems very silly then simply discarded:) I also believe that sending information on that part of the system we use is vital for you to make any decisions with less risk of breakage of the tools that we ourselves use. This allows you to create statistics to revalidate the code identified as unused, or else find that use is being given. I also think they should not be sent anonymously, so as to inquire the user that sent about what use is giving the system and determine if it is a compelling reason to consider. But it should be simple and automatic for a user to send this information, much as do common applications, and should be enabled if you want it or not. But, if a user does not report about his use of the system, then can not claim to be supportive. All this collecting and sending information can only be done efficiently with a transparent tool for the user. It would be nice to know if it already exists how to use it for that purpose. 2011/5/28 Hilaire Fernandes <hilaire.fernandes(a)gmail.com> > Go on, then I will try DrGeo on it. > > I would love to reduce the size image of the DrGeo4XO, the image is > still 14MB after cleaning. > > Hilaire > > Le 28/05/2011 15:35, Marcus Denker a Ã©crit : > > Hi, > > > > There is *a lot* of dead code in the image. > > > > I guess around 1/3 of the code base in Core is just not used at all > (especially Morphic). > > > > One thing I would like to do is to put, at the beginning of a development > cycle, > > a call > > > > self doesAnyOneUseThisTaggedIn: 'pharo 1.3'. > > > > at the beginning of *all* unsent methods. And keep it even in the > released image. > > > > This way we can, within 2-3 interations, remove *a lot* of dead code. > > > > Methods where people tell us that they need them, we should tag > > with <api> or <public> or something like that. > > > > > > Marcus > > > > -- > > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > > > > > > > > -- > Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire > > >

May 28, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] A radical proposal (to cut down dead code)

by Hilaire Fernandes

Go on, then I will try DrGeo on it. I would love to reduce the size image of the DrGeo4XO, the image is still 14MB after cleaning. Hilaire Le 28/05/2011 15:35, Marcus Denker a Ã©crit : > Hi, > > There is *a lot* of dead code in the image. > > I guess around 1/3 of the code base in Core is just not used at all (especially Morphic). > > One thing I would like to do is to put, at the beginning of a development cycle, > a call > > self doesAnyOneUseThisTaggedIn: 'pharo 1.3'. > > at the beginning of *all* unsent methods. And keep it even in the released image. > > This way we can, within 2-3 interations, remove *a lot* of dead code. > > Methods where people tell us that they need them, we should tag > with <api> or <public> or something like that. > > > Marcus > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > > -- Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire

May 28, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] A radical proposal (to cut down dead code)

by Tudor Girba

Hi, In Moose we do the same. Moose builds on the latest stable Pharo, and we use this for daily development. We also use a manual update of the latest Pharo to control the deltas and understand their consequences. We migrated from Pharo 1.2 to Pharo 1.3 in about an estimated of 10h of work including testing / deploying. This was mostly due to the radical but fantastic changes in Announcements :). From 1.1 to 1.2 it was even less. So, although lots of things change behind the Pharo hood, the overall compatibility is quite high. And Moose stresses the system. So, I would not overestimate the effort of migrating. Cheers, Doru On 28 May 2011, at 17:06, Yanni Chiu wrote: > On 28/05/11 10:16 AM, Stefan Marr wrote: >> Hi Marcus: >> >> >> On 28 May 2011, at 15:35, Marcus Denker wrote: >> >>> There is *a lot* of dead code in the image. >>> >>> This way we can, within 2-3 interations, remove *a lot* of dead code. >> Which tools do you imagine to allow your users to keep up with the pace of the changes of system? > > I use two automated builds. One stream builds on fixed versions of PharoCore + other stuff. I use this for day-to-day development. > > The other stream builds my stuff on the latest PharoCore. I manually update to the latest, so there is some lag, but I still find out fairly soon, when a change has affected my stuff. > > If something is broken, then I would try to make my stuff work in both streams. If that looks like a bad approach, then I could lobby for a change/undo of whatever broke my stuff - while active development of that Pharo version is still ongoing. > > That's the theory. My build has been broken for 10 days now. That's a matter of hours available and priorities, but I think the process is sound. > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Value is always contextual."

May 28, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] A radical proposal (to cut down dead code)

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

On 28. 05. 2011 15:35, Marcus Denker wrote: > There is *a lot* of dead code in the image. > > I guess around 1/3 of the code base in Core is just not used at all (especially Morphic). > > One thing I would like to do is to put, at the beginning of a development cycle, > a call > > self doesAnyOneUseThisTaggedIn: 'pharo 1.3'. > > at the beginning of *all* unsent methods. And keep it even in the released image. To automatically track any usage of such methods, add also: - email a stack of any such method call to cleanup watcher - tag such method and count its usage out of those emails - after a year or so purge all untagged methods This way image can actually be cleaned up without much angry guys out there, also without a lot of work if cleanup is automated. Best regards Janko -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

May 28, 2011

[Pharo-project] [update 1.3] #13224

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

13224 ----- - Issue 4305: Put back ObjectScanner. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4305 - Fixed imageSegment == wrong changes. Stef

May 28, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] A radical proposal (to cut down dead code)

by Yanni Chiu

On 28/05/11 10:16 AM, Stefan Marr wrote: > Hi Marcus: > > > On 28 May 2011, at 15:35, Marcus Denker wrote: > >> There is *a lot* of dead code in the image. >> >> This way we can, within 2-3 interations, remove *a lot* of dead code. > Which tools do you imagine to allow your users to keep up with the pace of the changes of system? I use two automated builds. One stream builds on fixed versions of PharoCore + other stuff. I use this for day-to-day development. The other stream builds my stuff on the latest PharoCore. I manually update to the latest, so there is some lag, but I still find out fairly soon, when a change has affected my stuff. If something is broken, then I would try to make my stuff work in both streams. If that looks like a bad approach, then I could lobby for a change/undo of whatever broke my stuff - while active development of that Pharo version is still ongoing. That's the theory. My build has been broken for 10 days now. That's a matter of hours available and priorities, but I think the process is sound.

May 28, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] A radical proposal (to cut down dead code)

by Alexandre Bergel

Marcus, I like the idea. Who should identify the dead code? What role will you have? Should we send you the list of methods we need? Or do you want to take the ten most downloaded project, run their tests and identify what is used, remove dead code and ask us to try? If you have a bit of time, then just do it. Just tell us how we can help you. I have no problem to regularly send reports. I did it for romain and David already. My advice: whatever the complains people can do right now about breaking old code, this is a kind of action that can radically change the face of Pharo, for a better future. Cheers, Alexandre Le 28 mai 2011 Ã 09:35, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> a Ã©crit : > Hi, > > There is *a lot* of dead code in the image. > > I guess around 1/3 of the code base in Core is just not used at all (especially Morphic). > > One thing I would like to do is to put, at the beginning of a development cycle, > a call > > self doesAnyOneUseThisTaggedIn: 'pharo 1.3'. > > at the beginning of *all* unsent methods. And keep it even in the released image. > > This way we can, within 2-3 interations, remove *a lot* of dead code. > > Methods where people tell us that they need them, we should tag > with <api> or <public> or something like that. > > > Marcus > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > >

May 28, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] A radical proposal (to cut down dead code)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> The idea of doing Pharo was never to support Squeak's code base (whch is impossible). > I know your goals, but the question still holds: How do you envision that a user of your system can port her codebase over to the next Pharo version, without going through manual costly painful hours of figuring out what changed and why it changed. > > I know you want a better system, that's cool. > > But I just want a tool that works. If it gets cooler with every iteration, nice. If there is a tool which allows me to do the transition from one version to another semi-automated, even better. > > Otherwise, I will probably stick with an old version until the pain of staying with the old system is bigger than the migration pain. The PhD of veronica is just about that. This is why Ring is designed, once Ring is integrated we will be able to build new generation tools and probably use Torch. Right now pseudo class and friends are not a solution > I am sure you heard all that before. Thus, my question: Can you envision a tool that allows me to keep up with you guys? Torch + UnitTests and we will not change everything all the time. Stef > > Thanks > Stefan > > > >> >> Marcus >> >> -- >> Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de >> INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. >> >> > > -- > Stefan Marr > Software Languages Lab > Vrije Universiteit Brussel > Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium > http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr > Phone: +32 2 629 2974 > Fax: +32 2 629 3525 > >

May 28, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] A radical proposal (to cut down dead code)

by Stefan Marr

Hi Marcus: On 28 May 2011, at 16:24, Marcus Denker wrote: >> On 28 May 2011, at 15:35, Marcus Denker wrote: >>> There is *a lot* of dead code in the image. >>> >>> This way we can, within 2-3 interations, remove *a lot* of dead code. >> Which tools do you imagine to allow your users to keep up with the pace of the changes of system? >> > The question is how we can have a future with the current system. Have a look at Morphic. This is one > huge pile of Crap... > > The idea of doing Pharo was never to support Squeak's code base (whch is impossible). I know your goals, but the question still holds: How do you envision that a user of your system can port her codebase over to the next Pharo version, without going through manual costly painful hours of figuring out what changed and why it changed. I know you want a better system, that's cool. But I just want a tool that works. If it gets cooler with every iteration, nice. If there is a tool which allows me to do the transition from one version to another semi-automated, even better. Otherwise, I will probably stick with an old version until the pain of staying with the old system is bigger than the migration pain. I am sure you heard all that before. Thus, my question: Can you envision a tool that allows me to keep up with you guys? Thanks Stefan > > Marcus > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 2974 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

May 28, 2011